972 replies to this topic

[Mastergrunt9]

Haipyng, on 08 October 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

I have to say the more I think about this, the more I wonder if ELO is even useful in the large group queue. It works great in Solo. But with certain classes and builds working better on certain maps and game types, does it really help? Its really random. Depending on what you drop with and get for a map.

It's more about the size of the group and how well they play together that affects the outcome of the large group queue.

thank you, another reason why ELO is pointless.

[wicm]

19 and 4 Base capping is capture the flag...and thats a childs game. PGI help us out with some info to elighten us. How many people % chose just one mode and what mode is it. also what % of your revenu is from the "BIG" players who buy dire wales and founders packages vs the the little guys who buy a few little cocpit itoms but in mass quantity. I think that info will help open some eyes on this forum.

[Alienized]

dying in a slow assault on a conquest has nothing to do with the game mode. you can make slow mechs work in there too.
just too many people dont care or dont want to care or just give up by exiting.
no respect for such players.

its about YOU to make the team work, if in solo or group. then it will work in each game mode.
for example: alpine peaks conquest. everyone knows gamma is nothing to go for (thats what they say... i know better).
in fact, if you send 2 fast mechs there to spot/fast cap it is a gamechanger. as soon as you drive your damn assault up there you fail hard.

think before you make a move on conquest.

[legionofvega]

Mastergrunt9, on 08 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

thank you, another reason why ELO is pointless.

No not really. It's a system based on odds. If you stick more equally skilled players together, the odds are that you will have a better match. It's not a guaranteed system.

[Tsuki Ookami vas Mugunghwa]

There have been made a lot of comments about peripheral problems about this change.

maybe, especially now that we seem to have Russ on the line, we should agree on some of them and hand them over as feedback.

maybe solving/lessening these problems makes a rollback obsolete.


i will now try to sum them up:


1. Conquest (when played as such, with focusing on capping and all) feels very unrewarding. trying to bring the XP/CBill gains on equal (or maybe even higher) levels makes it more appealing

2. ELO is not working right. many claim that the way ELO is calculated is flawed. trying to improve that may help to sell the "more balanced matches" feature of the Gamemode voting change.

3. Matchmaker is not working right. this is of course connected to the ELO, but the MM also factors in other things than just ELO. both more transparency and some things like Battle Value (from my experience this is not part of the MM right now) may in itself help balancing and again show the point of why this change is needed.

4. The Old System would be fine if we just had more active players. i have no clue as to how many players are currently active and PGI seems to be quite about it. i get why. but more players sure helps. things like "recruit-a-friend", a mentoring initiative and special offers for returning players might be more than just welcome but heavily needed.

5. we need more maps and gamemodes. a long living complaint. i know you guys are busy with CW. but once it's done, many players expect to deliver masses of new content.

6. there is no role warfare and no reward for playing the weight class least represented at the point of joining the queue. many MMOs with a groupfinding tool reward players for playing what is most needed. also the weapon modules are a start, but real role warfare should also include rewards for doing what's your role supposed to do well. overall increasing the rewards for simply playing and much more so for playing good should make what mode you are playing way less important.

Edited by Tsuki Ookami vas Mugunghwa, 08 October 2014 - 09:04 AM.

[HammerMaster]

You know why Heavy and Assault Pilots Hate Conquest? Lack of Rewards for capping.
You know why Heavy and Assault Pilots Hate Assault? Less fighting, more capping. Lack of Rewards for capping.
You know why Light and Medium Pilots Hate Skirmish? Their work in Spotting, Recon, Information Warfare goes unnoticed, unappreciated and Lack of Rewards for doing so.

My sentiment is tweak the modes so it is more broadly enjoyable and it would be played by more Pilots.

Edited by HammerMaster, 08 October 2014 - 09:05 AM.

[Coolant]

Darkblood, on 08 October 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

It´s not that I will refuse some mode (although some modes can be awkward depending on the Mech) but what really irks me is the amount of GRIEVING by the end of the match. You know: "base capping is lame. Congratulations on not killing any of us... qqqqqq...".

That went down a lot once the guys wanting a death match were allowed to get rid of bases altogether, now they are forced to deal with that and we are forced to hear their (not always polite) ranting.


edit: I´m just too stupid to get the wording right on the first run

This is an issue too...I've turned off most of the chat except lance because of it.

My main issue is the capping. Yesterday our team lost because of capping, even though we were up big in terms of kill/death ratio. I DON'T WANT TO PLAY A GAME TYPE LIKE THAT!

[elde]

I want to be able to choose my game modes I like to play. I don't want to grief other players and get a "mysterious" dc whenever I get a game mode I dislike, so my only remaining option is to stop playing.

[salkeee]

I understand why ppl hate conquest its such a hard game mode where U need to cap along with ur team but ur mind is focused on dmg and kills alone yes its hard PGI pls nerf.

[HighTest]

legionofvega, on 08 October 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Sadly this is becoming a no-win scenario for anyone and degenrating into those who are willing to play conquest and those who aren't. It's really sad that we can't have a compromise here. Why is it so hard to play a conquest map now and then? They pretty much turn into death matches anyway. It's not like its going to be conquest EVERY SINGLE time.

Interestingly, I quite enjoy Conquest. It's Skirmish that drives me nuts, as it usually only has two outcomes: degenerate into a brawlfest in the middle, or play hide and seek and hope someone gets a kill before the timer runs out. Or sometimes brawl for a while, and then play hide and seek with the stragglers. In any case, no bases = boring (unless you're in private queue and are setting up deathmatches.)

But everyone is entitled to an opinion. Which is why I think splitting up the select/vote process among the solo and group queues might make sense. Cater a little to everyone.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Actually, ID like to know what % will win this. Another one of the yes guys said unless its 2/3rd or 3/4th majority then it shouldnt be seen as a win.

Id like to think ppl arent making alt accounts just to game the poll, you get warnings for things like that

[wicm]

Aliisa White, on 08 October 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

what if i dont want to play with you and you are in my team? yeah i should TK you and make you rage. or just press alt+F4.
its just a gamemode wth..... play private groups if you want one kind of battle only. simple thing.
i drive almost nothing but solo. in mechs that can handle each and every single gamemode.
now people that do mechs only for certain game modes make me speechless.

I play lite fast mechs...I still hate playing capture the flag. I did not play it in any other game. As for the TK go ahead kill your score ill dico for crapquest anyhow

[Roadbeer]

Russ Bullock, on 08 October 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Although I wasn't a part of that decision to remove it. I disagree Roadbeer.

I want valid criticism on why you or your mates don't like it. A screen grab with the classic "working as intended" statement is not a valid comment.

There is nobody here on this thread that believes having everyone disconnect would be working as intended. Just stick to telling us why it doesn't work for you.

And on that subject I am pretty sure we completely understand how Buddah feels and that he does not like the feature, might not be much of a need to continue stating it. Please guys, I am not going to let this feature stay in with some 53% majority so stick to the conversation and vote.

It's looking like the feature is on the way out.

Fair enough, while I'm not a fan of how the information was presented, a picture is worth 1,000 posts.

For me, it showed that people saying "Everyone is disconnecting because of this" wasn't just hyperbole.

[Barfing Gopher]

Russ Bullock, on 08 October 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Although I wasn't a part of that decision to remove it. I disagree Roadbeer.

I want valid criticism on why you or your mates don't like it. A screen grab with the classic "working as intended" statement is not a valid comment.

There is nobody here on this thread that believes having everyone disconnect would be working as intended. Just stick to telling us why it doesn't work for you.

And on that subject I am pretty sure we completely understand how Buddah feels and that he does not like the feature, might not be much of a need to continue stating it. Please guys, I am not going to let this feature stay in with some 53% majority so stick to the conversation and vote.

It's looking like the feature is on the way out.

Now this is all I was hoping for, some solid business sense. Thank you. A change this big should be something that has an overwhelmingly positive response, 75%+, not barely go through with under 60%.

[Haipyng]

HammerMaster, on 08 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

You know why Heavy and Assault Pilots Hate Conquest? Lack of rewards for capping.
You know why Heavy and Assault Pilots Hate Assault? Less fighting, more capping. Lack of Rewards for capping.
You know why Light and Medium Pilots Hate Skirmish? Their work in Spotting, Recong, Information Warfare goes unnoticed, unappreciated and Lack of Rewards for doing so.

My sentiment is tweak the modes so it is more broadly enjoyable and it would be played by more Pilots.

Very valid points HammerMaster, but the rewards system is prone to abuse. No one had a fix for that other than very low rewards for those behaviors. It always comes back to the player. Do you want your team to win or do you want Cbills and XP?

[Fauxwise]

As players our opinion matters, both as to desired game mode and minimum time spent in a queue. And yes, If you choose to enter the queue in a weight class that's already heavily represented, you are more likely to have to wait for a long time.

The new system is an improvement, IMO.

Edited by Fauxwise, 08 October 2014 - 09:06 AM.

[Coolant]

HammerMaster, on 08 October 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

You know why Heavy and Assault Pilots Hate Conquest? Lack of rewards for capping.
You know why Heavy and Assault Pilots Hate Assault? Less fighting, more capping. Lack of Rewards for capping.
You know why Light and Medium Pilots Hate Skirmish? Their work in Spotting, Recong, Information Warfare goes unnoticed, unappreciated and Lack of Rewards for doing so.

My sentiment is tweak the modes so it is more broadly enjoyable and it would be played by more Pilots.

MW4:Mercs had a damage multiplier scaled on tonnage....something like that to help even things out. But, I agree more rewards for Role Warfare too...

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Let me get out my decision matrix.

I almost always disable Conquest in my game mode selection. This on the surface, should lead to a NO choice for map voting. However, after further consideration, I realized I didn’t like conquest because an “any” selection that randomly dropped me into a Conquest match, pitted me against players who only choice Conquest. My problem isn’t so much the game mode, but the specialized meta-play it promotes.

It dawned on me that this is the same sort of behavior I abhor in any match. Meta-Players, those who attempt to externally modify the game environment in any way possible to give themselves the greatest in-game advantage, rather than compete on a level playing field normalizing mech/map/mode for individual skill and strategy.

I realized that the new Voting system actually enhances game diversity by penalizing those who specialize too much, whether they specialize in a slow damage front-loader, a peek-a-boo boat, or a cap-racer.

[MADSix]

I was getting matches faster, and since that is what is important to me I voted keep the new way.

[HighTest]

Mastergrunt9, on 08 October 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

thank you, another reason why ELO is pointless.

Not really true. The main reason ELO is pointless is because it only works to normalize wins/losses. Which is how you can get a group of experienced players who have gone on an unfortunate losing streak paired against a group of noobs who just got carried to wins the last few matches by some of their teammates. Sure, it'll normalize their W/L ratio -- at the expense of the noobs getting rolled badly.

ELO should really be based on some means of measuring player skill. The exact formula I don't have, but I'm sure a reasonable method could be created in several different ways.