114 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Willard Phule, on 09 October 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

Blame the group queue. PGI is taking all it's telemetry for nerfing things from the organized players. They don't bother with the solo queue at all as far as balancing is concerned.

pretty difficult to get meaningful data from cat herding.

[Xarian]

Glythe, on 09 October 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

You realize the alternative is that we just have clan wars right? No one would pilot IS mechs in the current state even after these last nerfs. The IS mechs are still just not competitive.

You're ignoring all the people playing in group queue who regularly get stomped by IS mechs. Plenty of Clan mechs are subpar: Adder (a smaller, weaker Kintaro), Summoner (a Wolverine with ridiculously low-slung arms), Nova (a fat Blackjack) and Warhawk (an Awesome that has a choice to carry ballistics in the arms if you want to punish yourself). That's 4 out of 9 mechs. Pretty sure IS has more than 1 mech chassis per category that's worth playing.

Quote

Take any Atlas and fight it with a Direwolf. Oh look the Direwolf wins. That's called poor design to have the new thing be 100% better than the old thing.

At most with an Atlas you can have about 7 weapons . On the Direwolf you can have double gauss and 6 medium lasers and a hell of a lot more. And you're crying because they are making the clan 100 ton mech be less "automatic win" vs IS mechs? Get real. Let's also not forget that the high firepower build for the Atlas has 400m range max while the clan mech has 800m max with most of its weapons.

It's almost as though a mech is more than just its number of weapons! Sure, the DWF will win if you stand right in front of each other and hold the weapon buttons down. However, DWF is fixed at 53 kph and has abysmal torso twist and turning speeds - he's going to lag behind his team, or make people on his team escort him. An easy way to fight a DWF player is simply to deny them the ability to shoot at you - they can't chase after you without getting slaughtered. You know how slow and fat an Atlas is? A Direwolf is twice as slow and fat as that. Atlas spreads damage much better than a DWF, too. The main job of a DWF is to sit in the back and act as a fire support mech. The main job of an Atlas is to lead the charge and soak up damage for the team. The Atlas can run fast with a 350+ engine. One of the Atlas variants has ECM. The Atlas has access to the IS AC/20.

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Please try playing an IS assault with an XL engine before you cry about clan XL engines being bad.

Good assault pilots don't use XL engines at all unless they are relying on a jump/snipe or pure LRM strategy. XL engines are a huge liability in big mechs; Clan XL engines aren't quite as bad, but they're still not as good as Std engines. And yes, if you are using an XL engine and trying to brawl in an assault mech, then you are a bad assault pilot.

Have you considered actually trying to improve your game? I'm serious. After running my Clan mechs for a couple months, I started re-playing my Atlas and it felt like easy mode compared to my Direwolf.

[Xarian]

theta123, on 09 October 2014 - 03:51 AM, said:

Such fun game design when a single volley from a direwolf takes out my battlemasters front armour by 80%
such fun game design how clan mechs have tons of hardpoints while atlas has only a few
Such fun game design to see a Double gauss/ER PPC destroying everything at long range with Inner sphere having nothing comparable
Such fun game design not being able to return fire because a 6 UAC daishi is blocking your screen with shells but a 4 AC2 IS Jagermech gets ghost heat

SUCH fun game design indeed

- BLR is a Tier 5 mech, and you probably weren't running full front armor.
- More hardpoints doesn't mean better. BLR-1G has 10 hardpoints, so it must be OP compared to all those other IS mechs, right?
- IS has, er, double gauss and ER PPC to counter that double gauss and ER PPC. I don't get the complaint on this one. Or have you just never heard of Gauss/PPC Victors, dual-gauss Jaegers, or the CTF-3D?
- The AC2, UAC2 and LBX2 are all bad weapons that shouldn't have ghost heat. That has absolutely nothing to do with Clan technology whatsoever.

[Lily from animove]

Xarian, on 09 October 2014 - 06:04 AM, said:

You're ignoring all the people playing in group queue who regularly get stomped by IS mechs. Plenty of Clan mechs are subpar: Adder (a smaller, weaker Kintaro), Summoner (a Wolverine with ridiculously low-slung arms), Nova (a fat Blackjack) and Warhawk (an Awesome that has a choice to carry ballistics in the arms if you want to punish yourself). That's 4 out of 9 mechs. Pretty sure IS has more than 1 mech chassis per category that's worth playing.

It's almost as though a mech is more than just its number of weapons! Sure, the DWF will win if you stand right in front of each other and hold the weapon buttons down. However, DWF is fixed at 53 kph and has abysmal torso twist and turning speeds - he's going to lag behind his team, or make people on his team escort him. An easy way to fight a DWF player is simply to deny them the ability to shoot at you - they can't chase after you without getting slaughtered. You know how slow and fat an Atlas is? A Direwolf is twice as slow and fat as that. Atlas spreads damage much better than a DWF, too. The main job of a DWF is to sit in the back and act as a fire support mech. The main job of an Atlas is to lead the charge and soak up damage for the team. The Atlas can run fast with a 350+ engine. One of the Atlas variants has ECM. The Atlas has access to the IS AC/20.

Good assault pilots don't use XL engines at all unless they are relying on a jump/snipe or pure LRM strategy. XL engines are a huge liability in big mechs; Clan XL engines aren't quite as bad, but they're still not as good as Std engines. And yes, if you are using an XL engine and trying to brawl in an assault mech, then you are a bad assault pilot.

Have you considered actually trying to improve your game? I'm serious. After running my Clan mechs for a couple months, I started re-playing my Atlas and it felt like easy mode compared to my Direwolf.

here lies the big issue, most clanners run Diwerwolf and timbewolf and SC which are unbalanced strong chassis and so the telemetry from clan vs IS comes by the overusage of too string chassis. And so once general clannerfs have brought these clanmechs in line, the subpar clanmechs are as dead as the dropship in the turmaline desert.

[Mcgral18]

Glythe, on 09 October 2014 - 03:50 AM, said:

You realize the alternative is that we just have clan wars right? No one would pilot IS mechs in the current state even after these last nerfs. The IS mechs are still just not competitive.


Take any Atlas and fight it with a Direwolf. Oh look the Direwolf wins. That's called poor design to have the new thing be 100% better than the old thing.

At most with an Atlas you can have about 7 weapons . On the Direwolf you can have double gauss and 6 medium lasers and a hell of a lot more. And you're crying because they are making the clan 100 ton mech be less "automatic win" vs IS mechs? Get real. Let's also not forget that the high firepower build for the Atlas has 400m range max while the clan mech has 800m max with most of its weapons.

Please try playing an IS assault with an XL engine before you cry about clan XL engines being bad.

Quote

Please try playing an IS assault with an XL engine before you cry about clan XL engines being bad.

I frequently do. I call the Whale a poor substitute for a WubShee. Moving at 48 simply isn't pleasant, and I have no wish to spend another 30 mil and grind out the other two.

Whales are slow, with lots of firepower. Don't sit in front of them, torso twist, although try just not to stay in front of them for more than a second.

The XL400 WubShee can take down most Whales if both start fresh.

I'll get back to you on 100 tonners after I get the Atlas S. SRM24+A + AC20 with 4 MLs seems like it would be hard for the Whale to survive in short range combat.

Either way, not quite obsolete. Some pilots simply aren't suited to it, I suppose, just as I can't stand piloting a Whale.

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 October 2014 - 06:48 AM.

[Ngamok]

Carrion Hound, on 09 October 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

Stop whining.

Let me help you with this:

[Angel of Annihilation]

ColonelMetus, on 08 October 2014 - 06:33 PM, said:

so it turns out, that after losing my side torso on a dire wolf, i can no longer fire 3 ERML, it shuts down on the 3rd volley.

such fun game design, no one likes shooting their weapons anyway

Yep this is what happens to me too.

However I am all for the change but as a counter point, I would like to see the heat on Clan lasers get dialed back by about 1 heat each. Right now they are WAY to hot. I actually have clan mechs with 22 DHS running hotter than IS mechs with 18 DHS and this is with the same firepower and dps levels. Range is a nice advantage but it isn't worth having your mech run 20% hotter across the board.

[cSand]

Lol


Can't go into a game and do 1000+ damage anymore effortlessly in your DWFs and TBWs?

My heart bleeds for you!

[Revis Volek]

kilgor, on 08 October 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

Yes, but at least you're still alive. When an IS 'Mech with XL loses a side torso, they die.

You dont HAVE to run an XL though...Clans do.

[ColonelMetus]

they should make clan auto cannons more like IS

[Angel of Annihilation]

Monkey Lover, on 08 October 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Think is bad now just wait for all the IS buffs. I already feel clan are not worth owning.



How many assault mechs are running xl engines?

This is very true.

Honestly one of the biggest issues I have with my Dire Wolf builds is trying to actually use up all 100 tons on the mech. I have come up with so many builds that look like they would be amazing except for the fact that I end up with only a 90 ton load out and zero critical slots left to work with. On those builds I could easily slot in a Standard engine and be perfectly find with little to no reduction in firepower.

[Bilbo]

DarthRevis, on 09 October 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

You dont HAVE to run an XL though...Clans do.

I'd be astonished if anyone replaced a clan XL engine with a STD if they were given the choice.

[Revis Volek]

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 02:54 AM, said:

[

Shame I can't mount any missiles on the NopeVa, since it can't exactly sustain laser fire anymore. Every small and med laser has been nerfed in regard to heat.

Hardpoints make a mech. NopeVa has them, but can't exactly make use of them.



Then why is my BJ and SHD regularly outscoring my Nova? Is it because they are so much more heat efficient? Better hitboxes? Ability to mount Endo? More pod space?

There are some bad Clam mechs, and bad Clam weapons.

Same goes for my Blackjacks, Firestarters, Jenners, Shadowhawks, Griffins....they all do as well if not better then there Clam counter parts.

Black Ivan, on 09 October 2014 - 03:13 AM, said:

Mhm, looks like there will be no Clan Invasion at all, after Clans are made weaker then IS.

We are still gonna invade but at this point im pretty sure PGI wants the IS to win so they can "change history" or whatever delusions of grandeur they are currently entertaining. It seems that someone wants us stopped before we make it to the first invasion corridor.

Willard Phule, on 09 October 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

Blame the group queue. PGI is taking all it's telemetry for nerfing things from the organized players. They don't bother with the solo queue at all as far as balancing is concerned.

You are one of the few people outside myself that seems to think this way, STOP CROWD SOURCING YOUR GAME TO FAN BOYS!

Bilbo, on 09 October 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I'd be astonished if anyone replaced a clan XL engine with a STD if they were given the choice.

Why not? Im sure we can find some viable build(s) for things like the SMN and SCR that would also boost survivability. Speed is not everything, if you drive clam mechs you will see this. The fastest ones we currently have barley break 100 KPH. So why would you think a more survivable engine (at similar speed/sizes) with just a small sacrifice to loadout seeing as how the weapons are lighter and they often have more hardpoints. I dont see any issue with making viable builds that fit that criteria.

But i can see the flames and hear the QQ from my house already.....

Edited by DarthRevis, 09 October 2014 - 12:23 PM.

[krash27]

Ultimatum X, on 08 October 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

What properly built assault mech shuts down after firing 2 LLs 3x?


If we're going to push to where Clan energy weapons are so weak after losing a ST the only thing it does is encourage more dakka boats and more gauss.

youre properly built mech was preoperly taken apart and ins no longer properly built if you lost a torso lol.

[LordBraxton]

Clan players make me laugh so hard.

Theyve got the most OP stuff and are already complaining all the time.

[Mcgral18]

LordBraxton, on 09 October 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Clan players make me laugh so hard.

Theyve got the most OP stuff and are already complaining all the time.

Cute Fox, Badder, Suckoner, Nope-Va, PeaceDove.

Tell us how OP those mechs are. Tell us which mechs were hit hardest by the laser heat nerfs?

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 October 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

How are you guys all falling for this?

Next, he's gonna tell us that LRM flooding is the new FOTM.

[Tristan Winter]

You see this? This is the world's smallest violin, playing just for the poor Dire Wolf pilots who want to boat medium lasers without bringing enough heat sinks to keep firing if they lose half their torso.

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Cute Fox, Badder, Suckoner, Nope-Va, PeaceDove.

Tell us how OP those mechs are. Tell us which mechs were hit hardest by the laser heat nerfs?

Exactly. I was coming into this thread expecting to read about those mechs. Not the frickin Titan Battleship of MWO, of which you see at least 3 on both teams in every match. Sometimes 4.

[Ultimax]

Soul Tribunal, on 09 October 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

No Problem.
Then Let my AC5's be 4 tons less, give me double ammo per ton, and let my victor have 4 Ballastic Arm Mounts and 6 Energy Hard points

-ST

The UAC5s are 2 tons less, and crry more ammo because they fire more rounds that are smaller.

I'd honestly use IS UAC 5s instead even with the heavier weight, they are superior to the CUAC 5s and they are roughly on par with, and possibly better than, CUAC10s as well.

[Telemetry]

Quit yer bitchin'. Remember, the all powerful Clanners LOST the friggin' war!