57 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

I don't know how MWO works in relation to Tabletop, but... is it possible to know how much weight we'll have to play with for each wave 2 Clan mech, after adding the maximum amount of armour permitted in MWO?

We already know the hardpoints, and I guess we already know which crit slots are available, right?

Could someone please give me a list of how much weight we have for each of the 4 coming clan mechs?

I think someone said the Mist Lynx will have 7,5 tons of free weight when you strip it of equipment. Is that true? What about the Ice Ferret, Hellbringer and Gargoyle?

[FupDup]

Myth Lynx actually has 6.5 tons of poop space with max armor.

Ice Hamster has 9 tons.

Lelbringer has 23.5 tons.

Man O' Peace has 20 tons.

Edited by FupDup, 08 October 2014 - 10:47 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Myth Lynx is actually 6.5 tons of poop space with max armor.

Ice Hamster has 9 tons.

Lelbringer has 23.5 tons.

Man O' Peace has 20 tons.

Wow, that was fast.

So the Loki has more available weight than the Thor, while being smaller and having the same speed. I mean, sure, it doesn't have jump jets. But then it remains to be see if the Thor's jump jets will ever be more than a hill-climbing booster.

And 20 tons for the Gargoyle. A brawler with ballistics. Man o Peace indeed.

[Greenjulius]

Hellbringer should actually be a good mech, and has more than enough hardpoints to make it versatile. And of course it has the Magic Jesus Box.

The Ice Ferret and Gargoyle suffer from oversized engine syndrome. They are unnaturally fast for their weight classes, but the trade off is limited weapons. I can see both being most effective as some kind of energy boat however.

The Mist Lynx... I dont know what can be done to make it work better in MWO. It's hitboxes better be stellar, or it will be DOA. People said the same about the kit fox, but at least it has enough space for decent weapon load outs.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Wow, that was fast.

So the Loki has more available weight than the Thor, while being smaller and having the same speed. I mean, sure, it doesn't have jump jets. But then it remains to be see if the Thor's jump jets will ever be more than a hill-climbing booster.

And 20 tons for the Gargoyle. A brawler with ballistics. Man o Peace indeed.

To be fair, the Lolki doesn't have any hardwired JJs and has 1 less hardwired DHS than the Suckoner (add on the extra Dub and you do still get a lil bit of spare tonnage though). The Lelbringer's main advantage will be hardpoints and the Jesus Box (the extra pod space does help though, especially for ballistics).

For the Man O' Peace, the way to get around that (sorta) is to just boat energy to maximize the damage per ton. Things like 2 ERLL + 4 ERML, LPL + 4-6 ERML, etc. Maybe make a Man O' Wub and do 8 MPL.

[Greenjulius]

I've been running a lot of possible builds for all 4... These are more my playstyle, with the exception of the Mist Lynx, which has almost no config I'm happy with.

Mist Lynx

175XL, forced Clan Active Probe, 178 max armor
Build 1: ECM, 1xML, 1xLL
Build 2: 4xML
Build 3: ECM, AMS+1Ton, 2xMPL
Build 4: ECM, 1xML, 2xSRM4+2.5 tons
Build 5: ECM, 1xML, 1xSSRM2, 1xSSRM4+1.5 tons

Ice Ferret

360XL, 306 max armor
Build 1: 4xMPL, DHS
Build 2: 3xSRM4+4 tons, 1xMPL
Build 3: 4xML, NARC+2 tons, AMS+1 ton

Hellbringer

320XL, 422 max armor
Build 1: ECM, 2xLPL, 5xML
Build 2: ECM, 1xGauss+3 tons, 2xLL
Build 3: ECM, 2xERPPC, 4xML, 7xDHS
Build 4: ECM, 2xGauss, 5 tons ammo?

Gargoyle

400XL, 494 max armor
Build 1: 5xML, 2xLPL
Build 2: 8xML+10DHS, AMS+1.5 tons
Build 3: 1xLPL, 6xML

The Mist Lynx is just going to be hard to make a decent mech without mimicking an annoying Spider 5D build. ECM seems almost necessary for it, as it's too slow to run as a FireStarter or Spider equivalent. I suppose we'll see once we've had a chance to mess with it's hitboxes.

The Ice Ferret and Gargoyle can actually come out with some good build. I think the doom and gloom over these two is way overplayed. The Ice Ferret's speed is excellent for the firepower it can bear, especially my 4xMPL build. The Narc build should also be a great support mech, and still brings good ranged firepower.

The Gargoyle has real potential as an energy boat. When an assault comes barreling in at 89kph with a Clan XL engine, 8x Clan ERML and nearly 500 armor, I'm interested. It even has zombie mode options with the CT energy mounts.

The Hellbringer is undoubtedly versatile. I feel like it may be a little fragile if it's hitboxes aren't good, but I'm very excited to see what it can do. Build number two dawned on me and surprised... Put those 2xERLL and Gauss in the torsos, and you've got a great platform for high mounted long range ECM sniping. Kind of like a mix between a Raven, a Shadow Hawk and a mini Dire Wolf.

So, yes, I'm excited to get these mechs!

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 12:22 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

You've made an error with the dual gauss Hellbringer. There's no way you can get both dual gauss and the ECM+ammo you need.

I also don't think 2xCERLL is the way to go with a Hellbringer gauss sniper. The burn time is just insanely long, and you're basically a walking lighthouse while you're firing. Every sniper on the map has their eye on you, especially in a crunchy 60 ton mech.

I think I'm going to run ECM, Gauss, LPL and ML on the Hellbringer. That should give me 3-4 tons of ammo. What's really cool about the Hellbringer, is the ability to put all weapons on one side. Which is extremely useful for a sniper, because you can fire your shot and immediately torso twist to the left to absorb all return fire on your right side. Again, the XL engine will be very useful for this, and losing those two heatsinks makes no difference when you just have 2 energy weapons.

[Greenjulius]

Alistair Winter, on 09 October 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

You've made an error with the dual gauss Hellbringer. There's no way you can get both dual gauss and the ECM+ammo you need.

You've never run a 3xGauss Ilya, have you? Strip the armor out baby!

Edit: bah, you're right. I just tried it with a Jager. The XL320 is too heavy. It would actually be possible if it had endo. I tried with a Firebrand and actually had a good build.

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 02:11 AM.

[Greenjulius]

Alistair Winter, on 09 October 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

I also don't think 2xCERLL is the way to go with a Hellbringer gauss sniper. The burn time is just insanely long, and you're basically a walking lighthouse while you're firing. Every sniper on the map has their eye on you, especially in a crunchy 60 ton mech.

Except its actually a 65 ton mech... it can pack 92/8 armor in the CT. That's not very crunchy to me. I've had a lot of luck with ERLL on my kitfox, and I can only mount energy on it's monkey arms. High mounted LL in the shoulder just makes too much sense. Hide most of your mech behind a hill, pop up and fire a gauss/laser blast. ERLL had its duration reduced to 1.5 seconds, which isn't nearly as bad anymore.

I do however like hour idea of using LPL. They are too good to pass up, but a ERPPC may also be a valid option. You're also right about mounting most of the weapons on one side. It's going to be a great mech, unless they make it the size of an Awesome.

Edited by Greenjulius, 09 October 2014 - 02:20 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Except its actually a 65 ton mech... it can pack 92/8 armor in the CT. That's not very crunchy to me. I've had a lot of luck with ERLL on my kitfox, and I can only mount energy on it's monkey arms. High mounted LL in the shoulder just makes too much sense. Hide most of your mech behind a hill, pop up and fire a gauss/laser blast. ERLL had its duration reduced to 1.5 seconds, which isn't nearly as bad anymore.

I do however like hour idea of using LPL. They are too good to pass up, but a ERPPC may also be a valid option. You're also right about mounting most of the weapons on one side. It's going to be a great mech, unless they make it the size of an Awesome.

Hm, that's more armour than I had expected. That's good news.

I guess I'll try both ER LL and LPL eventually. With heat not being an issue, ER LL may be better than normal. And yeah, PPC would probably work very well. I just feel guilty whenever I combine PPC and Gauss, so I try to avoid it. It just reminds me too much of the Dark Ages of Highlander Poptarts.

And yeah, size is going to be a huge factor. This won't be much of a sniper if it's the size of an Atlas. Especially given those low arms, which means you have to expose your whole torso to fire the gauss.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Alistair Winter, on 08 October 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Wow, that was fast.

So the Loki has more available weight than the Thor, while being smaller and having the same speed. I mean, sure, it doesn't have jump jets. But then it remains to be see if the Thor's jump jets will ever be more than a hill-climbing booster.

And 20 tons for the Gargoyle. A brawler with ballistics. Man o Peace indeed.

You trying to preplan builds or what? But soon the mechs will be up on Smurfy mechlab, you will be able to play with loadouts there. The Mad Puppy is already on there.

[Mcgral18]

Alistair Winter, on 09 October 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

You've made an error with the dual gauss Hellbringer. There's no way you can get both dual gauss and the ECM+ammo you need.

I also don't think 2xCERLL is the way to go with a Hellbringer gauss sniper. The burn time is just insanely long, and you're basically a walking lighthouse while you're firing. Every sniper on the map has their eye on you, especially in a crunchy 60 ton mech.

I think I'm going to run ECM, Gauss, LPL and ML on the Hellbringer. That should give me 3-4 tons of ammo. What's really cool about the Hellbringer, is the ability to put all weapons on one side. Which is extremely useful for a sniper, because you can fire your shot and immediately torso twist to the left to absorb all return fire on your right side. Again, the XL engine will be very useful for this, and losing those two heatsinks makes no difference when you just have 2 energy weapons.

You can do dual gauss with 5 tons of ammo; you just need to drop to 7.5 tons of armour. Can't remember if that included the Magic Jesus Box or not.

Loki will be the best, without a doubt. 25 tons when you strip down one of the arms, and you can still fit 6 ERMLs without that arm, along with your choice of missiles or Dakka with the RT.

[Alistair Winter]

LordKnightFandragon, on 09 October 2014 - 03:33 AM, said:

You trying to preplan builds or what? But soon the mechs will be up on Smurfy mechlab, you will be able to play with loadouts there. The Mad Puppy is already on there.

Smurfy gets the data from the game files. So we won't have Smurfy loadouts before PGI actually puts the new mechs in the game.

Mcgral18, on 09 October 2014 - 04:13 AM, said:

You can do dual gauss with 5 tons of ammo; you just need to drop to 7.5 tons of armour. Can't remember if that included the Magic Jesus Box or not.
Loki will be the best, without a doubt. 25 tons when you strip down one of the arms, and you can still fit 6 ERMLs without that arm, along with your choice of missiles or Dakka with the RT.

Oh, I forgot the ballistic hardpoint in the RT. So... people will be stripping both arms of ammo and running gauss + PPC in the torso on an ECM sniper. Hmph. I was looking forward to playing the Loki, but it looks like it's going to be the next cheese-bomb. Just like how people ruined the Raven 3L for me back in 2012.

[Angel of Annihilation]

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Myth Lynx actually has 6.5 tons of poop space with max armor.

Ice Hamster has 9 tons.

Lelbringer has 23.5 tons.

Man O' Peace has 20 tons.

I came up with 8.5 on the Ice Ferret after max armor so what I am I miss calculating?

Also I really wish Smufy would put up a "theoretical" section for these clan mechs, especially since all the info that is needed to build this clan mechs is readily available. Manually building via pen and paper is a pain.

[Kiiyor]

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Maybe make a Man O' Wub and d-

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED.

[Lily from animove]

I build my sniper heavy. tc 7 3CERLL in the torso range module for maximum range. alos CERLL CD module on the CERLL. ecm to stay hidden 81kph to be nimble snipe them off. This is the first thing I gonna test with the hellbringer. rest goes into heatsinks.

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 10:56 PM, said:

Maybe make a Man O' Wub and do 8 MPL.

When the Banshee is a Wubshe can we call the man-o-war wubhe if he is using PL?

Edited by Lily from animove, 09 October 2014 - 04:43 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Lily from animove, on 09 October 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

When the Banshee is a Wubshe can we call the man-o-war wubhe if he is using PL?

Please don't give Fup Wub any excuses to use even more elaborate nicknames. I barely follow what he's talking about any more. All I see is Goose Riffles, Jesus Boxes, Peace Doves and Beagle Analprobes.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Greenjulius, on 09 October 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

The Mist Lynx is just going to be hard to make a decent mech without mimicking an annoying Spider 5D build. ECM seems almost necessary for it, as it's too slow to run as a FireStarter or Spider equivalent. I suppose we'll see once we've had a chance to mess with it's hitboxes.

I don't know if I agree that the ECM will be necessary. The reason is because the one thing people forget is that the C-ER ML has alot more range than IS MLs. These guys will have between 130-260m more stand off range than the typical Firestarter which means they don't have to venture as far into the enemies engagement range. This will potentially offset some of that speed disadvantage.

Quote

The Ice Ferret and Gargoyle can actually come out with some good build. I think the doom and gloom over these two is way overplayed. The Ice Ferret's speed is excellent for the firepower it can bear, especially my 4xMPL build. The Narc build should also be a great support mech, and still brings good ranged firepower.

The Gargoyle has real potential as an energy boat. When an assault comes barreling in at 89kph with a Clan XL engine, 8x Clan ERML and nearly 500 armor, I'm interested. It even has zombie mode options with the CT energy mounts.

I agree that the doom and gloom is probably not completely warranted on these two mechs. However, I think the Ice Ferret is probably going to have issues with heat. It just doesn't have enough free tonnage to mount enough DHS to deal with how overly hot PGI has made clan energy weapons for so called balance reasons. Heat might have balanced the Timber Wolf but mechs without the space to boat DHS got hit too hard. Also I am concerned about scale. At 40 tons this mech should be just a bit larger than a Firestarter however, PGI really seems to have issues with scale so all the speed in the world isn't going to help this mech if it is the size of a Griffin.

Also the thing about the Gargoyle isn't that it will be DoA or even bad, rather it just won't be as good as a the Timber Wolf and its lack of tonnage won't even remotely allow the firepower of a Warhawk or Dire Wolf. So while it might not be a bad mech, it still might be the worst Clan assault.

Quote

The Hellbringer is undoubtedly versatile. I feel like it may be a little fragile if it's hitboxes aren't good, but I'm very excited to see what it can do. Build number two dawned on me and surprised... Put those 2xERLL and Gauss in the torsos, and you've got a great platform for high mounted long range ECM sniping. Kind of like a mix between a Raven, a Shadow Hawk and a mini Dire Wolf.

The Hellbringer will be the gem of the bunch but like you, hit boxes are a bit of a concern but lets be honest, they are always a concern on every new mech. ECM however will at the very least offset bad hit boxes so there is at least that to count on. It does however have good armor potential (416 armor max I think) combined with very versatile hard points and omnipods that will allow for great customization and tweaking. Also due to not having FF or Endo, there will be no restrictive fixed structure or armor slots preventing placement of weapons, DHS or other equipment. Lastly 23.5 tons free after max armor is alot of free weight, especially when your talking clan weapons. Personally I think I will be running a C-LPL, 5 C-ER ML, 1 LRM15s, with ECM in my prime which should be an excellent load out for a mid range support mech that will stick with the team to provide full ECM support.

Quote

So, yes, I'm excited to get these mechs!

Me too though I am super paranoid about PGI screwing them up.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 09 October 2014 - 05:01 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 08 October 2014 - 10:43 PM, said:

Myth Lynx actually has 6.5 tons of poop space with max armor.

Ice Hamster has 9 tons.

Lelbringer has 23.5 tons.

Man O' Peace has 20 tons.

Lol....these attempts to pin nicknames on them all would be great...if most of the attempts didn't flat suck. Starting to regret the whole Dire Whale thing if these limp attempts are gonna be the successors. Too weak, too forced. Nicknames only work if you don't have to shoehorn them on.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 09 October 2014 - 05:05 AM.

[Karl Marlow]

Alistair Winter, on 09 October 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:

You've made an error with the dual gauss Hellbringer. There's no way you can get both dual gauss and the ECM+ammo you need.

That isn't true. You can do it strait up from the B build. You just have to sacrifice .5 tons or armor to put in the Jesus box. That gives you dual gauss with 4 tons of ammo.

The podspace calculations above are incorrect for the Hellbringer. ITs 26.5 for the prime and 28.5 for the others.

Edited by ThomasMarik, 09 October 2014 - 05:42 AM.