12 replies to this topic

[scorpiontrekie2]

I had a few questions.

1) Why is it that the game has not adopted the orginal mechwarrior game configuring of being able to disable friendly fire kills or damage? [redacted]

2) I understand damage rates from weapons change depending on weapon etc. What I do not understand is why that if I hit with an alpha strike all weapons on average 2 times before heat shuts me down do I only get less than 100 damage when my weapons are hitting it close range and full damage in a dire wolf prime is 94.6. I know that atleast part of that is gone but why out of 189.2 damage (2 hits alpha close range) less than 100 damage counts?

Edited by Egomane, 09 October 2014 - 12:37 AM.
discussing griefing violations

[ColonelProctor]

1) I don't know why they haven't but in my view it adds more realistic battle conditions to the game. I myself have killed a team member when he accidentally walked in front of me as I fired. [redacted]

2) Are you 100% sure your weapons were on the target 100% of the time they were fired? If you deviated even a little and got off target and then quickly back on then the full damage potential will not be done. Learned this myself after watching my play and seeing damage scores and also after watching videos put up by others and just listening to what they say.

Edited by Egomane, 09 October 2014 - 12:38 AM.
Discussing griefing violations

[Egomane]

Please do not discuss intentional friendly fire or teamkillings. Such things belong reported to support, instead of being discussed and thereby advocated to a broader audience. I removed the parts doings so from the above posts.

1. It adds more realistic battle conditions, as Proctor already stated. It should make you more aware of your own and your team mates positioning. Why should weapons magically deal no damage just because they are aimed at a friendly?

2. Weapon hit registration is sometimes a little bit jumpy. Please note that not all weapons deal their damage immediatly. They will need time to get their damage on target. Clan ACs use multiple projectiles that all need to hit, lasers do damage over time. They also do not deal their damage at all ranges. PPCs for example deal less damage below a certain distance the closer the opponent is (varies, depending on clan vs. IS and ER vs. normal PPC). All weapons deal less damage beyond their optimum range. Inner sphere LRM will deal no damage below 180 meters and clan LRM will deal considerably less damage then normal in that range bracket.

Edited by Egomane, 09 October 2014 - 12:46 AM.

[Tarogato]

scorpiontrekie2, on 09 October 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

1) Why is it that the game has not adopted the orginal mechwarrior game configuring of being able to disable friendly fire kills or damage? [redacted]

2) ... I hit with an alpha strike all weapons on average 2 times before heat shuts me down do I only get less than 100 damage when my weapons are hitting it close range and full damage in a dire wolf prime is 94.6...

1. friendly fire adds a lot of depth to the game. Without it the game would feel more arcade, and that's not the aim of the developers - we aim for more of a pseudo-simulation. Yes, there are some people that don't care about teamkills and just shoot anything that moves whether a crippled friendly is in the way or not, and those people are simply dishonourable. I agree that the penalty for teamkills should be higher, maybe even a slight penalty for team damage itself. There's a difference between griefers and people that simply have tunnelvision. Aspire to be neither of them and you'll start off in a good place.

2. assuming you were in the trial Dire Wolf, the UAC fires in bursts and the large lasers for instance deal under 3.5 dmg per second - you have to keep them on target for the full 1.6 seconds to get all 11 damage out of each one. Also, LRMs deal reduced damage at close range (Innersphere LRM's actually deal zero damage at close range).
- so do you think it's possible you alpha'd but you're weapons didn't stay on target for their full duration and you were too close to get optimum damage out of your LRMs? Also, you shouldn't really be alpha'ng in that mech. Four ER large lasers produce ghost heat, so you need to space them out in pairs or chainfire, and the UAC's and LRM's should be treated differently from the lasers in how and when you use them.

edit: ninja'd.

Edited by Egomane, 09 October 2014 - 01:32 AM.
cleaned up quote

[Spike Brave]

I'd like to address something about the alpha question that has not been addressed. If you alpha something small, like a locust, with 90 alpha it is way more then you need to kill it. Let's say you it a locust in the back with that kind of damage, you will kill it but you really only need about 15 points of that damage to destroy the CT. In this case, it will only count the damage done before the target died.

[Alaskan Nobody]

NecessaryWeevil, on 09 October 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Spike, not sure what your point is. What would you like to see happen to the remaining 75 damage?

It would simply not be counted.

IE: on the scoreboard

[Spike Brave]

Shar Wolf, on 09 October 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

It would simply not be counted.

IE: on the scoreboard

Thanks Shar. That is what I'm trying to say. Any excess damage will not be counted on the scoreboard. This why a 90 point alpha only counts for 15 damage in the earlier example. The entire salvo has a damage potential of 90 but only 15 points of it were actually used destroying the mech.

I don't see the post from NecessaryWeevil, but to address the excess damage it will transfer in the following manner. If an arm or leg takes more damage then needed to destroy it, it goes to the side torso. If a side torso or head takes more damage then needed to destroy it, the excess damage is transferred to the center torso. Excess damage to the center torso is lost and will not be counted.

So in the case of a locust taking a 90 point alpha to the right arm, the damage would destroy the arm, then the side torso, then the center torso. Again 90 points of damage would be overkill. It would take around 50 points of damage to core it out in this case and result in score for the destruction of three components(arm, side torso, center torso). This can lead to an interesting scoring possibility. If you hit the locust in the leg, it would transfer to the side torso then center torso but you would receive rewards for four components being destroyed. The leg and torsos would be destroyed by damage so there's three, but the arm would be blown off the mech due to the loss of the side torso and you would score that as well.

Hope this clears everything up!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Spike Brave, on 09 October 2014 - 01:48 PM, said:

So in the case of a locust taking a 90 point alpha to the right arm, the damage would destroy the arm, then the side torso, then the center torso. Again 90 points of damage would be overkill.

Not by much though - 86 armor to one shot a fully armored Locust if it hits the arm
Armor (+Internal)
12(+6)
20(+10)
24(+12)

(WARNING: Kinda Going off Topic)

Spoiler

Actually - factor in the Damage Transfer mechanic (half is lost) it would take
18 (arm+is) for the arm
45 more to kill the side (half damage lost)
~144 more for the CT (damage is cut in half AGAIN - meaning it takes 4 points of damage to knock 1 armor/IS point down)

my math may be off on that last number though

So you would need to do 207 damage in one shot to kill a Locust through his arm.

[Spike Brave]

Shar Wolf, on 09 October 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Not by much though - 86 armor to one shot a fully armored Locust if it hits the arm
Armor (+Internal)
12(+6)
20(+10)
24(+12)

(WARNING: Kinda Going off Topic)

Spoiler

Actually - factor in the Damage Transfer mechanic (half is lost) it would take
18 (arm+is) for the arm
45 more to kill the side (half damage lost)
~144 more for the CT (damage is cut in half AGAIN - meaning it takes 4 points of damage to knock 1 armor/IS point down)

my math may be off on that last number though

So you would need to do 207 damage in one shot to kill a Locust through his arm.

Good to know. I wasn't aware they halve the damage. Last I saw from an official source to was full damage. Silly ninja changes.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Spike Brave, on 09 October 2014 - 02:14 PM, said:

Silly ninja changes.

Been that way for as long as I have been playing.

[ColonelProctor]

Egomane, on 09 October 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

Please do not discuss intentional friendly fire or teamkillings. Such things belong reported to support, instead of being discussed and thereby advocated to a broader audience. I removed the parts doings so from the above posts.

1. It adds more realistic battle conditions, as Proctor already stated. It should make you more aware of your own and your team mates positioning. Why should weapons magically deal no damage just because they are aimed at a friendly?

2. Weapon hit registration is sometimes a little bit jumpy. Please note that not all weapons deal their damage immediatly. They will need time to get their damage on target. Clan ACs use multiple projectiles that all need to hit, lasers do damage over time. They also do not deal their damage at all ranges. PPCs for example deal less damage below a certain distance the closer the opponent is (varies, depending on clan vs. IS and ER vs. normal PPC). All weapons deal less damage beyond their optimum range. Inner sphere LRM will deal no damage below 180 meters and clan LRM will deal considerably less damage then normal in that range bracket.

Sorry about that. Will remember that for next time.

[Nightmare1]

scorpiontrekie2, on 09 October 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

I had a few questions.

1) Why is it that the game has not adopted the orginal mechwarrior game configuring of being able to disable friendly fire kills or damage? [redacted]

2) I understand damage rates from weapons change depending on weapon etc. What I do not understand is why that if I hit with an alpha strike all weapons on average 2 times before heat shuts me down do I only get less than 100 damage when my weapons are hitting it close range and full damage in a dire wolf prime is 94.6. I know that atleast part of that is gone but why out of 189.2 damage (2 hits alpha close range) less than 100 damage counts?

1) FF makes the game more realistic. It also makes pilots play a bit more carefully and keeps the game from being a "run-and-gun-bullet-spray" type. Personally speaking, I rather like having FF in the game because it makes it feel more serious, even if it is annoying at times. Ultimately, the devs decided to include it, so I would say that is the main reason for it's presence in the game.

2) That depends on your weapon systems. If you have a lot of LRMs equipped, and you are closer than 180 meters to your target, then your LRMs will deal less damage than if you were at optimal range (>180 meters). Clan LRMs have an exponential damage curve that ramps up to their full damage potential closer you get to 180 meters. Once you hit 180, they deal full damage. IS LRMs have 180 as a min range and will deal zero damage if you are within 180 meters from your target.

I would also ask if you are running CUACs. Those are very prone to jamming. When they jam, they will cease firing for a few seconds. This will decrease the amount of damage you are capable of inflicting.

[White Bear 84]

Egomane, on 09 October 2014 - 12:46 AM, said:

1. It adds more realistic battle conditions, as Proctor already stated. It should make you more aware of your own and your team mates positioning. Why should weapons magically deal no damage just because they are aimed at a friendly?

#Neverforget