102 replies to this topic

[Murphy7]

60 ton average mech weight is the average between the classes we have from 20 to 100 - 60 is the middle. It's good for a starting point.

That the minimum drop weight is 140 seems a little high. It does prevent four Spiders, so who knows.

I would like to see the dropship weight vary by mission and planet, for attacker and defender, but that's me.

[Asmudius Heng]

I would prefer if different planets had different tonnage limits to reflect how important they are.

Major planets might be a bit higher, but smaller planets might only have 200T for instance

This would add some variety, there would be big boy battles and smaller skirmishes depending on the rating of the planet.

thats just my 2c though ..

[Alek Ituin]

I agree that there should be income bonuses for coming in under max drop weight.

Significant income bonuses.

The more you reward people for canon behaviour, the more people will behave in a canon manner. Lets say I only like to pilot 100 tonners in the current meta, that forces me to bring some dinky little Lights/Mediums that'll just get shot to s**t after my Assaults die. BUT, if you give 2k C-Bills per spare ton, or an income modifier equal to 0.5% per spare ton, people would now see min-weight Mech chassis (20 tonners, 40 tonners, 60 tonners, and 80 tonners) as a viable choice due to the added income.

Suddenly, packing the most weapons isn't as big of a deal. If I come in packing an 80 tonner, 20 tonner, and a 40 tonner, that puts me at 140 tons total. At 140 tons, I get either 200k C-Bills or a 50% bonus to any C-Bills earned that match. Either one of those ideas is more than enough reason to pack something other than a max/medium weight Mech chassis.


Just my 0.2 C-Bills on the matter.

[Eddrick]

Locust 20 Tons (Match start scout. It doesn't do me much good for anything else.)
Shadowhawk 55 Tons
Catapult 65 Tons
Battlemaster 80 Tons (Late match clean up)
Total 220 Tons

I own all 4 of these, plus a Griffin. I can work with 220 ton limit.

I would prefer the Mechs be balanced. So, things like Tonnage Limits wouldn't be necessary.

[Asmudius Heng]

Alek Ituin, on 09 October 2014 - 02:52 PM, said:

I agree that there should be income bonuses for coming in under max drop weight.

Significant income bonuses.

The more you reward people for canon behaviour, the more people will behave in a canon manner. Lets say I only like to pilot 100 tonners in the current meta, that forces me to bring some dinky little Lights/Mediums that'll just get shot to s**t after my Assaults die. BUT, if you give 2k C-Bills per spare ton, or an income modifier equal to 0.5% per spare ton, people would now see min-weight Mech chassis (20 tonners, 40 tonners, 60 tonners, and 80 tonners) as a viable choice due to the added income.

Suddenly, packing the most weapons isn't as big of a deal. If I come in packing an 80 tonner, 20 tonner, and a 40 tonner, that puts me at 140 tons total. At 140 tons, I get either 200k C-Bills or a 50% bonus to any C-Bills earned that match. Either one of those ideas is more than enough reason to pack something other than a max/medium weight Mech chassis.


Just my 0.2 C-Bills on the matter.

The problem is CW is not about grinding .... or it should not be.

Encouraging people to go in underweight and LOSE but gain a nice amount of cash means your faction loses the planet. This is not what CW is about.

There needs to be a system of logistics on a faction level that could determine restrictions - people in canon did not take a crappy second line mech because they wanted to if they have a better option available.

[Naduk]

i agree with OP
the drop weight system is being used to allow players choice without 1/1/1/1 but still require them to bring 4 diverse mechs

240 tons is to high
2 assaults and 2 lights will be the default way to play
imagine a 12 man drop with this
they open with 12 lights , cause untold havoc bring down gates with ease as defending players cannot hope to combat the speed of 12 lights
then they either do it again until they have made enough holes
a short time later your facing down 12 assault mechs all pushing en mass into one spot
vaporizing any resistance in their way because chances are your team was trying to play the game how its supposed to be played and brought a mixed deck of light,med,hvy,assault

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FrupertApricot, on 09 October 2014 - 12:06 PM, said:

With 240 tons per drop you can still literally pack nothing but heavy mechs. The standard mech size of the IS is 55 tons (griffon, shd,wolverine etc.) and mediums are the most common, so why not a slightly more conservative and lore friendly 220 total tons reflecting average space of 4x55.

ALTERNATELY

Give a CBILL BONUS for drop weight left open, a sort of personal handicap to grab for some cash. Make it percentage based rather than flat so players still have to go fight. Done.

How many assault mechs can you pack in there given that youre required to play 4 mechs?

Cause I dont own med mechs, and lights make me motion sick

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2014 - 03:10 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Naduk, on 09 October 2014 - 03:06 PM, said:

play the game how its supposed to be played and brought a mixed deck of light,med,hvy,assault

"supposed to be played"

CW isnt even out yet, just how is there already a precedence for how its "supposed to be played"?

TT? Then I assume http://www.sarna.net...7s_Marauder_IIs werent playing right either?

Excuse me if I dont want to be forced to play how someone else thinks I need to.

[WarHippy]

Deathlike, on 09 October 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

No... that wasn't the point. The point was 240 tons is pretty much fine. 300 tons is way too much.

240 is pretty much fine for you but not others, and yeah 300 probably is too much as 240 is too little.

Deathlike, on 09 October 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

In a tonnage restrictive system, you ultimately need to master two classes minimum to make the most of it, or "give up" with the Locust (Clans have literally no recourse when trying to put out 2 Daishis, which means having to downgrade one Dire Wolf to a Masakari or Gargoyle, to go with a Myst Lynx and/or Kitfox in some combination).

Needing to master two classes is a fine ideal for the most part, but limiting it in such a way that in order to take assaults you also have to master their polar opposite seems stingy. As does not making that a requirement for any other class. So long as the requirement is to bring 4 mechs it really needs to be somewhere in the 250-265 range.

Edited by WarHippy, 09 October 2014 - 03:16 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

240 is pretty much fine for you but not others, and yeah 300 probably is too much as 240 is too little.
Needing to master two classes is a fine ideal for the most part, but limiting it in such a way that in order to take assaults you also have to master their polar opposite seems stingy. As does not make that a requirement for any other class. So long as the requirement is to bring 4 mechs it really needs to be somewhere in the 250-265 range.

meh; Id like to be able to drop a couple assaults an a couple heavies mainly cause thats all I play

[XX Sulla XX]

So is the goal to force people to play mechs they do not want to play or to let people play the mechs they like? I think they should have several total weights and then have a poll. Lets see what people want to run. Oh and then we can have another poll after it comes out for all those to lazy to vote in the first poll

[Kirkland Langue]

240 is how many points you would use to have AHML using a Direwolf - so any argument that the tonnage should be less is DOA.

At 260, a player can bring 2x Direwolf.
At 255, a player can bring 3x Timberwolf.

I suspect that the Devs will avoid both of these combinations, so the question becomes between 240, 245, or 250.

[TygerLily]

WarHippy, on 09 October 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

I hardly see that as the magic number. Some people like light but hate assault and vice versa, however the assault pilots are forced into taking light mechs if they want to take their preferred ride. If picking 2 100 ton mechs allowed them to at least take a heavy and a medium for the last 2 slots it would be a better compromise.

Magic mainly due to

2 Dires, 2 TW: 350 Tons
4 TW: 300
1 Dire, 1 TW, 2 SC: 285
2 TW, 2 SC: 260
4 SC: 220

All these are the superior clan meta and all but 4 SC is disabled. True, Assault pilots can't take 4 Atlases. But maybe they can make a run with Atlas and Orion (mini Atlas?) and then they go Lighter later in the match for someone else to pick up the Assault run. I like the trade off. Lower weight, similar role now have somewhat of a purpose.

EDIT: Thought of this one too 1 TW, 3 SC...yowch! Or in my case, an Orion and 3 Shadow Hawks!

Edited by TygerLily, 09 October 2014 - 04:10 PM.

[WarHippy]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 October 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

meh; Id like to be able to drop a couple assaults an a couple heavies mainly cause thats all I play

I would as well since I play all four types, however I do prefer my heavies and assaults. The 1/1/1/1 system was bad, as is this low tonnage setup. I would have preferred a modified 3/3/3/3 system where we could assign classes to certain people. That would allow the people that like their lights to bring their 4 chosen light, and the people that like their larger mechs to bring their larger mechs. That would still limit it to 12 Assaults per side, which would be less than the potential 24 Assaults per side with this tonnage system. This means you and I could bring whatever Assaults we wanted without being forced into mechs we do not care for without flooding the game with wave after wave of Assaults that others seem worried about.

[AEgg]

No tonnage limit is going to work if we're forcing you to bring 4 mechs. Either someone who wants to play assaults has to bring lights anyway, or light players lose by wasting tonnage.

For a drop deck system to be fair, the number of mechs needs to be variable. Maybe you can bring up to six mechs, and get 200 tons total. Something that limits things in such a way that you get a benefit from running lighter mechs, but you can still run all assaults if you want to. Assault pilots should be able to bring less mechs, and light pilots should bring more mechs at a similar total tonnage. That way nobody is forced into playing mechs they dont want to.

[Naduk]

XX Sulla XX, on 09 October 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

So is the goal to force people to play mechs they do not want to play or to let people play the mechs they like? I think they should have several total weights and then have a poll. Lets see what people want to run. Oh and then we can have another poll after it comes out for all those to lazy to vote in the first poll

great idea
then we can ignore the results of both polls and go back to the way it was first setup because a select few manage the moan loud enough that its not what they want and dont care how much their desires ruin the game for everyone else

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 October 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

"supposed to be played"

CW isnt even out yet, just how is there already a precedence for how its "supposed to be played"?

TT? Then I assume http://www.sarna.net...7s_Marauder_IIs werent playing right either?

Excuse me if I dont want to be forced to play how someone else thinks I need to.

LOL
thats some cute justification rational you got there

i could bombard you with the other 99% of Sarna.net that states the quality of the IS and how lights and mediums are the most common units on the field for the majority of forces
cost and ease of production makes it so
but i dont need to because i know you have seen it
you already know how rare and Atlas is supposed to be, like wise for most things above 65tons

the precedence for how its supposed to be played fyi
comes direct from the devs , who up until recently were going to enforce 1 light, 1 medium, 1 heavy, 1 assault
now its 240 tons total over 4 mechs, so basically the same but now allowing for min max scenarios to play out more often
PGI draw their inspiration from table top and as you very well know table top states that mediums are the most common units
thus the OP and supporters of this concept want something to encourage more use of the most common units

[Johnny Z]

The players get 4 cards in this card game, max 240 tons, play them how ever you want. Its lets everyone use their favourite mech and have room in their drop ship for 3 more mechs.

The complaints are so weak on this topic, it may have hit a new weak complaints internets record lol. Cmon guys you arnt even trying.

[Tristan Winter]

I think a lot of the solutions offered don't take into account how hard it will be to accomplish without breaking the matchmaker completely. It's hard enough to find two teams that are roughly 3-3-3-3. When everyone gets to choose 4 different mechs, the difficulty grade increases exponentially.

I think you have to balance it on a pilot by pilot basis. Or at the very least divide players into 3 different lances on both teams. Scout lance (200 tons per player, dropped in a forward position), attack lance (250 tons per player) and heavy lance (300 tons per player, but dropped further away from the enemy).

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Naduk, on 09 October 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

i could bombard you with the other 99% of Sarna.net

Really wheres the part that has something to do with MWO not Battletech?

Because this is one and only loosely based on the other

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 October 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[Kirkland Langue]

Nicolai Kabrinsky, on 09 October 2014 - 03:39 PM, said:

I think a lot of the solutions offered don't take into account how hard it will be to accomplish without breaking the matchmaker completely. It's hard enough to find two teams that are roughly 3-3-3-3. When everyone gets to choose 4 different mechs, the difficulty grade increases exponentially.

This 240-ton thing actually makes MM easier. You don't have to worry about the weight classes at all, every player is equal weight class irregardless of what mechs they bring.