26 replies to this topic

[Tristan Winter]

The term 'support mech' gets thrown around a lot. "It's a good support mech". I don't quite understand the term, because it's not usually used about LRM boats or specific builds that require other teammates to protect it from certain situations. Like, I would call the NARC+TAG+AMS+ECM Kitfox (let's call it the MacGyver, since it has a lot of tech but doesn't do much damage) a support mech.

The Kitfox can fill that role better than any other mech in the game, so it's actually a support mech.

But people seem to use the word 'support mech' about mechs like the Dragon, the Thunderbolt, the Vindicator or the Awesome. It's my contention that the MacGyver Kit Fox is the only real support mech in the game. I dare say there's not a lot that so-called support mechs can do, that the regular tier 1 mechs can't do better.

When people say 'support mech', they seem to mean "This mech can do damage as long as other teammates get all the attention from enemy mechs." But by that definition, every mech in the game is a support mech. That makes no sense to me.

[Karl Streiger]

Rule of thumb - every second or third line Mech is a support Mech. Mostly used for Mechs with long range weapon but insufficent standing power - afaik the old Awesome.

The Dragon, Thunderbolt and Vindicator - are no support Mechs.
The Dragon should become a flanker - while Thunderbolt and Vindicators roll is to play the red line of heros.

A Multiple AC 2 build is a support Mech - lacking sufficent firepower to kill an enemy fast.

I would say if support does there job and rub armor of a target - every brawler must be able to cripple that target with one alpha strike

[Yziel]

I always assumed it was refering to something fairly slow with a lot of medium to long range weapons that stick close to the brawlers and help dish out the damage. Not a dedicated long range weapon platform like lrms, ppc, gauss or a short range brawler with ac20, pulse lasers and srms.

[mike29tw]

There's no "support" role in this game.

You're either effective at killing, or you have the 1.5 ton jesus box.

[Cyborne Elemental]

LRM boats are pretty close to being "support" mechs, they hang back "supporting" the front line with missle fire and softening up targets on that front line.

Other than that I'd put ECM mechs in at #2, except for the atlas-D-DC, he pretty much just stomps your face.

[Dracol]

I'd say a support mech is one that is a force multiplier when working with a team, but if used 1v1 against a mech of similiar weight, it would most likely lose the fight.

My LRM adder is a perfect example. It is quick, so it can be at which ever part of the battle it is needed. Low profile, so it doesn't get targeted often when near more prominent enemies. Steady stream of LRMs to harass enemies targeting my allies. So, in a typical match, I'll watch the backs of the main force, rain LRMs when I have a target available or in sight, get 8 to 12 assists a match, and help the big boys smash their targets to bits.

But, if another light comes upon me and I happen to away from the main force, I'm pretty much a dead mech.

[Haipyng]

Supporting mechs are usually long range snipers or LRM boats with lower armor/mobility, or scout, ECM, AMS TAG/NARC platforms. Purer versions of the latter of these things don't often exist in MWO as success and rewards are mostly based on kills and damage done. You may prove to be very valuable to your team as a whole as those things, but you won't be considered as successful or contributing much and your rewards in game will be much lower.

[Rhaythe]

Haipyng, on 10 October 2014 - 06:59 AM, said:

Supporting mechs are usually long range snipers or LRM boats with lower armor/mobility, or scout, ECM, AMS TAG/NARC platforms. Purer versions of the latter of these things don't often exist in MWO as success and rewards are mostly based on kills and damage done. You may prove to be very valuable to your team as a whole as those things, but you won't be considered as successful or contributing much and your rewards in game will be much lower.

Pretty much this. The "Support" role in MWO is not truly defined by any in-game reward or gameplay.

[Vassago Rain]

A support mech is something bad players force good players to carry.

It's very simple, comrades.

If your mech needs to be carried, it is a support mech. Get a new one. If it doesn't need to be carried, regardless of weapons and equipment, then it's not a support mech.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 10 October 2014 - 07:24 AM.

[UrsusMorologus]

My personal working definition is attack mechs move the line forward, and typically do it by engaging in some kind of bi-directional combat, while support mechs soften the enemy defenses to make it easier for the attack mechs while trying to avoid the bi-directional part. In that model, fire-support is clearly a type of support, eg snipers and artillery boats, ankle-biter Hunchback throwing AC20 from around the side of a building, these are all clearly helping even if they are not engaging in bi-directional combat. Then there are other roles, like your ECM buddy who blocks the enemy from getting a target lock on your attack mech(s), or the deep scout who marks targets for the rear-line fire-support to fire on, and so forth. All of these things make it easier for the attack mech who has to get bloody.

To paraphrase Patton, your team wins by killing all the other mechs, not by getting your own mechs killed. You don't have to stand in the open with your short-range brawler to kill the enemy mechs.

[Rhaythe]

Vassago Rain, on 10 October 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

A support mech is something bad players force good players to carry.

It's very simple, comrades.

If your mech needs to be carried, it is a support mech. Get a new one. If it doesn't need to be carried, regardless of weapons and equipment, then it's not a support mech.

You're trying a little hard here, but given the context of the game, you're not 100% wrong.

[Vassago Rain]

sneeking, on 10 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

surprise murder assistance from kill steeling lights is "support "

No, no, that's 'kill securing.' Not 'kill stealing.'

Edit: like so.

Edited by Vassago Rain, 10 October 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

It's essentially a mech that can't withstand being on the front line. Instead you build a play to support friendly mechs from the second line. Used and built right they can be effective but too many and they can be detrimental.

[LORD ORION]

A mech that needs another mech to be effective.

LRM boat by itself is bad.
But an LRM boat with a scout spotter and a tank inbetween him and the other team becomes one of the strongest forces on the battlefield.

[CDLord HHGD]

[Vassago Rain]

cdlord, on 10 October 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

The end result of too many pubbies sporting support mechs.

[Sadist Cain]

I think somewhere along the line here there's been a mix up between a support mech and a mech that needs supporting...

Jagers supporting dire wolfs, hunchbacks & atlai, Jenners guarding a cicada, things like that is being a support mech.

Carrying the team doesn't make you a supporting mech.

Edited by Sadist Cain, 10 October 2014 - 08:05 AM.

[Rhent]

A Support Mech in MWO is the term used for a mech that designed so horribly wrong by Piranha's staff that it is absolutely useless in the role for its weight class. Basically, they are the Ford Pinto's of the Mechwarrior Universe because Piranha's staff designed them to fail.

Lights: Kitfox/Adder - They move too slow to be effective lights. They have the firepower of Mediums, move at Clan Heavy speeds and have the armor of a Jenner FAIL

Heavy: Catapult - Their heavy hitting firepower is missiles, all of which are put in oversized arms that are extremely easy to hit. Toss in a very easy to Head shot head in the CT and you have a fail mech.

[Mcgral18]

cdlord, on 10 October 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

From the Solo queue:



WubShee certainly isn't a support mech.

Edited by Mcgral18, 10 October 2014 - 08:12 AM.

[Dino Might]

Two different terms being discussed.

Support mech is one with a primary role not in dealing damage (e.g., ECM, AMS, NARC, scouting, squirreling, whatever else you want to call distracting the other team and providing yours intel). In MWO, electronic warfare is the only support role right now. Repair assets don't exist. Engineering assets don't exist (e.g., building structures/bridges/turrets).

Fire Support is a different thing altogether. Most people mislabel fire support mechs as support mechs. Fire support mechs are mechs designed primarily to deal damage, but not be the primary focus of enemy fire. Often termed "glass cannons," their role is to maximize damage out while minimizing damage in to their own fragile selves. These builds tend to be long range to provide that additional protection required, but sometimes can be short range (light harassers).

Tank mechs are designed to be front-line damage dealers and takers. Atlas is the perfect example.

Hopefully this clears things up. As always, language is somewhat malleable, but people being imprecise with vocabulary and hijacking words for their own, unconventional use causes confusion.