163 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

You now get the same amount of Cbills per kill/assist etc as any other game mode - so basically if it does end in a cap victory you can end up getting the 37,500 on top of the ability to earn the same rewards everywhere else.

Does capping in Assault do similarly? Did get a cap win last night that way, but was looking for NArc and TAG assists, as per our other conversation, not really at the total rewards.

Either way, cool about increasing the Conquest rewards.

Do some situational Role Reward increases for spotting, TAGing, NArcing, and Lights will have a much happier time to. Also, ever consider rewarding partial damage rewards to a NARC carrier for LRM damage done to his NARC'd targets?

The 2 lance challenges proved without a doubt that the efficacy of LRMs goes up exponentially with a good dedicated NARCer working the other team. But the Cbills don't really reflect it. Just a thought.

[Johnny Z]

cSand, on 10 October 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Beer and strippers?

I tried. They dont accept mc or c-bills.

Edited by Johnny Z, 10 October 2014 - 10:07 AM.

[Warblood]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I am also doing some research into maybe changing how fast you can flip the resource points

start by cutting the cap time by 1/4 or 1/3 and see how it goes from there.

[IceSerpent]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I am also doing some research into maybe changing how fast you can flip the resource points - some feedback on how when they were slowed down it changed their desire to play the mode.

That would be awesome. Conquest is kind of supposed to be more about resources than about kills - that's what differentiates it from the other modes.

[Toothless]

DEMAX51, on 10 October 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Weapon and 'Mech moduless? Multiple copies of the one's you'll need for your dropship of 'Mechs in Community Warfare? All of the C-bill buyable colors?

Bought'em.

[Gauvan]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I am also doing some research into maybe changing how fast you can flip the resource points...

Perhaps give a bonus to capture speed based on tonnage? Nothing huge but a little bump to help slower mechs contribute would be nice.

I appreciate the increase in earnings—frankly that was the primary reason I kept it out of my regular rotation.

[Bilbo]

Warblood, on 10 October 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

start by cutting the cap time by 1/4 or 1/3 and see how it goes from there.

Taking it back to it's original value would be perfect in my opinion. It wasn't too fast but still required the team to split to make sure they weren't out-capped. Of course the change was made before lights were limited, so more adjustments might be necessary.

[Xtrekker]

I thought the complaint was about being punished for actually playing the game mode, not that people wanted skirmish with a little bonus at the end. And also that the game mode was really boring, but it's the only alternative to the other equally boring deathmatch modes.

[SerEdvard]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I am also doing some research into maybe changing how fast you can flip the resource points - some feedback on how when they were slowed down it changed their desire to play the mode.

It's great to hear you say that you're considering this! If you have a moment, please consider this post I made on outreachHPG a week or two ago on ideas for spicing up Conquest mode and let me know what you think!

http://www.reddit.co...ater_with_some/

TL;DR: Kills is more effective at winning in Conquest mode than capping, so dramatically increase the cap/up cap rates or consider insta-flips (with fuller cap bar generating more points per time), add cbill/XP rewards for capping, and maybe even incorporate a respawn/dropship system.

Original post copied below:

It's been almost 2 years since Conquest mode was added to the game. The great mech combat of MWO deserves dynamic and interesting game modes beyond team deathmatch, and unfortunately, I think there is general consensus that Conquest mode did not deliver in this regard. I want Conquest mode to be interesting, but most games of Conquest end with one team being destroyed well before the point cap is reached (except once in a while when a lone survivor can drag out a cap win), thus leaving MWO with 3 flavors of team deathmatch.

I'll spare everyone a thesis on why Conquest mode has been a disappointment, but for those who are new or are unaware, I'd summarize the issues as follows:

- It is ultimately more effective to win match by simply killing the opposing team rather than worrying about capping
- Capping/uncapping is too slow, especially if you aren't capping as a lance, so there is little incentive to go after cap points after the initial rush
- For the reasons above, attempting to cap/uncapan be a detriment to the team because you're not fighting with the vanguard
Standing in a box for long periods of time just isn't fun
- While I eagerly await the incoming Attack/Defend/Dropship mode coming with CW2, I retain some hope that PGI might be willing to consider some significant modifications to spice up Conquest mode.
- So what would a hypothetical "successful" Conquest mode look like? In my opinion, spicing up Conquest mode starts with making the players prioritize the cap points over getting kills. This means players are splitting up into pairs/lances and racing around the map trying to control the battlefield rather than forming the deathblob and going for kills.

So here are my ideas to spice up Conquest mode... (note that my intent is to propose ideas that would take minimal resources from PGI to implement)

Most minor changes:
- Significantly increase the cap/uncap rate, perhaps by 2-3x
- Add cbill/xp rewards for successfully capping and uncapping

Bigger changes:
- Entering an enemy-controlled cap immediately uncaps it and resets it to neutral (or perhaps flips to ally-controlled)--> no time required to uncap would encourage role warfare by give lights/fast mediums a clear role and encourage defense of cap points by heavies/assaults
- Filling the control bar doesn't increase uncap time, instead it increases the rate at which it generates points (for example, a ally-controlled cap point with just a tick of blue would generate 1 point every [10] secs, whereas a full blue bar would generate 1 point every [3] seconds) --> makes certain cap points more tempting targets for the enemy, encourages small skirmishes to naturally occur across the map
- Add 2 more cap points on the largest maps (alpine, TT, tourmaline, maybe Caustic and Crimson too) to spread things out

And finally, the big one...
- Incorporate respawns/dropship mode to make battlefield control more persistent, and increase the cap point total accordingly (5000?)
- Players could respawn on the map at any ally-controlled cap point
- Respawns could follow 4x3 dropship mode as outlined by PGI for CW2, or incorporated into the point system by deducting points from the team total for every respawn

Thoughts? Any more ideas to add?

EDIT: I know that many people don't like the idea of adding respawns, which is totally fine IMO. I listed it as a nuclear option, not necessarily something that the game mode needs. But *IF** PGI decides they want to bring dropship/respawns out of CW into the general PUG queue, I think Conquest would be the place to do it rather than Assault or Skirmish.*

[Jetfire]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I am also doing some research into maybe changing how fast you can flip the resource points - some feedback on how when they were slowed down it changed their desire to play the mode.

More resource points, destructible resource points and less accrual per point seems like a cool idea.

Give the assaults a goal, blow up the enemy points. Also encourages splitting forces up.

I did like the new rewards updates in the HUD though.

[Helsbane]

My biggest issue with Conquest wasn't that it paid less overall, but that there are not real rewards for playing the mode in any other fashion but deathball. There are no rewards for flipping a node. No rewards for defending a node. No rewards for finishing with four or more nodes. Just no rewards for playing it as Conquest.

Also, Alpine's nodes need to be put back where they were originally. Now that we don't have nine assault mechs per team, having the nodes further apart makes far more sense and promotes fast moving fights at varied locations on the map.

Also, cap times are waaayyy too long. Three minutes to flip a node solo? Seriously, node flips should be faster.

And, have you considered increasing resource points based on number of nodes controlled? Yes, it's borrowing a concept from Arathi Basin in WoW, but if it encourages node control in a game mode based on, of all things, node control, wouldn't that help?

Edited by Helsbane, 10 October 2014 - 11:10 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Nice to hear - double the Ressource Node capturing speed and increase the ressource goal to 1000...
and rework Alpine, maybe put 1 or 2 more ressource nodes on big maps...

Edited by Thorqemada, 10 October 2014 - 11:06 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

You now get the same amount of Cbills per kill/assist etc as any other game mode - so basically if it does end in a cap victory you can end up getting the 37,500 on top of the ability to earn the same rewards everywhere else.

This is awesome. Conquest is my favourite game mode, but the low earnings and slow cap times really took a lot of the zing out of it for me.

I'm so damn happy to hear this!

[Revis Volek]

I only avg 80,000 c-bills per match in conquest though i manage over 1,000 EXP still. If you win on cap and not by killing all enemy mechs its kinda pointless still vs the other modes. Still not worth it IMO....should get the same C-bills weather you win on caps or win by defeating the enemy team.

[Bhael Fire]

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

I am also doing some research into maybe changing how fast you can flip the resource points - some feedback on how when they were slowed down it changed their desire to play the mode.

I think reducing the amount of time it takes to cap would make Conquest much more enjoyable...and would encourage players to play the intended game mode instead of treating it just like Skirmish or Assault. I mean, it would still basically be Team Death Match, but at least you'd see more effort in attempting to cap points.

[Russ Bullock]

I am also looking to change the cap time in conquest for a near future patch.

Originally it was around 13 seconds for someone to flip a base - a long time ago it was moved to 50 seconds.

Based on some feedback during the game mode voting discussion - I am considering going to a 30 second flip time.

Those are all times for a single mech without cap accelerator - a split in the middle of old and new and try that out.

Mix that with the extra rewards - it might breathe more life into conquest.

[KuroNyra]

FupDup, on 10 October 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

I will have to do experimentation on this later tonight...for science of course.

Russ Bullock, on 10 October 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

I am also looking to change the cap time in conquest for a near future patch.

Originally it was around 13 seconds for someone to flip a base - a long time ago it was moved to 50 seconds.

Based on some feedback during the game mode voting discussion - I am considering going to a 30 second flip time.

Those are all times for a single mech without cap accelerator - a split in the middle of old and new and try that out.

Mix that with the extra rewards - it might breathe more life into conquest.

Maybe you could consider adding some reward in C-bill for capturing or have started a capture.
It would give the people more purpose to try that game mode Quiaff?


For example, in mechwarrior Living legend, capturing a point given you c-bill reward to buy new mech.
Here it could for each second passed in capture a reward in c-bill added at the end of the battle.

Edited by KuroNyra, 10 October 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Helsbane]

If there are rewards for not only taking nodes, but for defending them as well, you'll get far less flak from the assault and heavy pilots. It would give them incentive to stay and prevent capture of a node instead of feeling they have to slog all the way across a map in order to get points for capture. I suggest a radius around each base in which combat for defenders registers for defensive points, but allows them to get off the node in order to fight.

[Livewyr]

I am exhausted, or I would be a bit more excited. Two things immediately come to mind though:

1: More cbills overall: Very good.
2: More cbills for straight combat (on par with Skirm/Assault)- How does this make Conquest different from Assault/Skirm? That officially makes it a back-up or convenience option to cap points.

To put it simply: It is now more like Skirmish with some points of interest.

Do not get me wrong, Russ, I am very happy that the rewards issue has at least been addressed, but I would not be me if I did not offer (what I think is fair) criticism in the pursuit of an even better MWO.

[Dragomir Zelenka]

cSand, on 10 October 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

Beer and strippers?

In cockpit keg and dance pole. Cuts down visibility, but it's a price I'm willing to pay.