67 replies to this topic

[MadPanda]

PGI in their great wisdom already solved this problem; buy the Improved gyros module.

[Farix]

MadPanda, on 14 October 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

PGI in their great wisdom already solved this problem; buy the Improved gyros module.

Let me repeat what I said earlier.

Modules are considered end-game equipment. New players, who will be most affected by screen shake, will not have access to them. Thus, they are a poor solution to "fix" common problems with game mechanics.

[Desolator]

Glythe, on 13 October 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Some of us have been saying that for a long time. Why does my cockpit shake when you hit my torso in an Atlas? Big mechs should shake less than small mechs.

Really are you seriously asking why your cockpit shakes when your torso gets rocked.

My guess would, I don't know be because they are attached to each other. Not too mention rigidly mounted at that.

If you move your torso your head follows and it has the added benefit of a neck.

[Bhael Fire]

NO.

Screen shake and flashing raises blood pressure and gets the adrenaline going. It lets you know that you're in deep **** and that you better back the F off behind cover. And it makes the game a little more immersive.

AND it gives some weapons a specific role: Suppressive fire.

So...NO.

[Logan Hawke]

MoonfireSpam, on 13 October 2014 - 05:49 PM, said:

Or just go play Call of Duty 16. While you go play COD, why not leave things as is and add more screen shake for cockpit hits. Crack the glass if hit by guass, or add scorch marks for lazer damage.

>Get arm clipped by AC/10
>Screen lights up and cockpit thrashes around like a washing machine on three legs
>dat skill

Edited by Logan Hawke, 15 October 2014 - 06:43 AM.

[MadPanda]

Farix, on 14 October 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Let me repeat what I said earlier.

Modules are considered end-game equipment. New players, who will be most affected by screen shake, will not have access to them. Thus, they are a poor solution to "fix" common problems with game mechanics.

WIth that logic radar derp should also not be a module and just applied to everyone because new players most certainly have a problem with LRM's.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Farix, on 14 October 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Let me repeat what I said earlier.

Modules are considered end-game equipment. New players, who will be most affected by screen shake, will not have access to them. Thus, they are a poor solution to "fix" common problems with game mechanics.

However modules SHOULDN'T be considered end game content and I do honestly hope PGI re-evaluates this at some point and fixes this issue rather than uses it as an excuse to reduce or remove screen shake which is not the issue.

Bhael Fire, on 14 October 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

NO.

Screen shake and flashing raises blood pressure and gets the adrenaline going. It lets you know that you're in deep **** and that you better back the F off behind cover. And it makes the game a little more immersive.

AND it gives some weapons a specific role: Suppressive fire.

So...NO.

This 1000%. I think I mention this point earlier in the thread. Seems people want them to remove anything that makes the game interesting or even remotely harder or requiring more skill. Screen shake is annoying but like you said, it gets your heart pumping and make you really have to go to your A game to be able to accurately return fire or indicates strongly that it is time to get the hell out of Dodge and get some cover. It adds a ton to the feel of the game and makes it feel more like a battle than just firing at pixels. Honestly I just don't understand why people just want ez mode games anymore. Are they really that lazy or incapable of playing a game that can be hard at times?

[TWIAFU]

KraftySOT, on 13 October 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Ridiculous reasoning.



Getting shot in the leg, and having your screen shake...is bloody stupid.

Improved Gyro reduces screen shake, get it and equip it.


In TT, when you take a lot of damage you can fall down. Be thankful that your screen only shakes.

[xeromynd]

Glythe, on 13 October 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Some of us have been saying that for a long time. Why does my cockpit shake when you hit my torso in an Atlas? Big mechs should shake less than small mechs. On the low end of the spectrum an AC/20 should knock over a light and an AC/5 should rock him pretty bad. On the high end of the spectrum an Atlas or Direwolf should only shake if you hit them in the head with an AC/5 or in the torso with an AC/20 (for about the same shake).

Agreed, it feels a bit weird when I see an Atlas turn it's whole side because I hit its side torso with an AC20 from my lowly Blackjack, and yet a Spider hit in the chest just keeps on truckin.

By this logic (and what I assume would be realism), shouldn't a Gauss Slug tear right through a Locust's kneecap and cut it's damn leg right off? I know there's really no way of accomplishing this without making one leg destruction an instakill, but it feels odd that I can sling a high velocity 15-damage slug into a 25 ton mech while it still sprints on freely.

Edited by xeromynd, 15 October 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[Gralzeim]

So, let's see here.

Cockpit wildly gyrating around like a washing machine with every hit, anywhere on the mech, the same animation no matter where the hit came from, is 'immersive'.

Screenshake being more realistic (as proposed by some in this thread, i.e. shuddering a little when hit by mild or medium strength weapons on the torso, and only rattling when hit by a big gun or on the cockpit) is 'un-immersive'.

Mmk.

Also, the module doesn't do what it advertises. I've used it, screenshake is still high. And I had to shell out millions of cbills and thousands of GXP for it. For -one- module. Just so it can what, reduce potential nausea or headaches by 5%? For that cost it should remove screenshake almost entirely. 90-95% reduction. As is, it's a complete waste of GXP, cbills, and a module slot.

Personally I'd love it if it were a graphical option, but I get it, that's an opinion tantamount to suggesting that they remove all the weapons from the game.

Honestly at this point I'm convinced that the folks who are extremely against any reduction in screenshake (or making it more realistic, or making it optional) primarily don't want to lose their ability to cheese fights anymore. Yes, I'm saying that 'suppression' is cheese, since it's not really suppression. Suppression is about getting people to stay in cover because they don't want to be hit by your guns.

Not about making people disoriented/nauseated/blinded.

And yes, the smoke/flash when hit anywhere in your frontal 180 degree arc by an autocannon or missiles is rediculous as well. Flamer blinding is fine, flamer does barely anything and is close range and heats the user more than the target.



But no, we can't possibly adjust/reduce/etc the screenshake! It would destroy the game!

Edited by Gralzeim, 15 October 2014 - 07:47 AM.

[Clint Steel]

+1 OP

Screen shake shouldn't be removed, but reduced, and location based reduction is a good idea.

Also, I feel shake should be based of damage dealt, close range AC20 shakes a lot, a distant C-AC2 has nearly no shake per bullet.

It also would be nice if the bigger mechs experienced shake less, the higher the tonnage, the less the shake.

[Mystere]

R Razor, on 13 October 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

No, it's EXACTLY the point and you just don't like it because, by your own admission, you exploit the poor implementation of screen shake and explosion graphics as a method of suppression. If you were skilled enough you could still use the AC-2 as a suppression weapon by hitting the enemy in the head or upper torsos. Instead you want to be able to plink away at any part of the mech from across the map and screen shake the hell out of them while your buddies move in for the kill.

Let laser fire cause the same blinding effect to the cockpit when your leg is hit and I bet you'd cry like a piglet with his curly little tail tweaked because "It didn't hit my cockpit so it shouldn't blind me".

Edited to clarify: I am not an advocate of removing the effects, only modifying them to a more reasonable and realistic level. Head hits should = 100% shake / explosion effect, Torso should = a lesser level (maybe 50% - 75%) and arms and legs should be 25% or less dependent on mech size.

I hope people realize that the cockpit is probably solidly attached to the center torso. As such, if the center torso is shaking a lot, so is the cockpit. Also, vibrations do not stop traveling between solidly attached sections in the absence of any dampeners. Finally, note that the amount of shake is also dependent on the cockpit's position relative to the rest of the mech. So not all mechs will share the same screen shake characteristics.

Now blinding is a different matter altogether. And that one is more fun to apply on the enemy.

[Koniving]

LordKnightFandragon, on 13 October 2014 - 03:36 AM, said:

less flashy bright lights would be nice.....

Especially on machine guns.
What kind of machine gun has a muzzle flash more than 6 times larger than its barrel?
Most MGs actually have muzzle breaks specifically to reduce flash to barely 1.5 times wider than the barrel itself.

[CN9 ACE PILOT]

I remember in MW3, when you got hit in the ferro glass, you would hear that shriek and crack and a bullet hole.

That was quite a wake up call.

[Mystere]

Training Instructor, on 14 October 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Arty strikes from invisible, weightless smoke launchers rain down damage from the sky.
So immersive.

80mm mortars can weigh less than 50kg and can have a range of up to 6km. An automated aiming system should weigh no more than 50kg either. Mortars have been known to launch smoke rounds for marking or signalling.

[Mystere]

Reitrix, on 14 October 2014 - 03:55 AM, said:

Its exactly the point

Screenshake should be reduced heavily on all ACs except the 20s.
LRM shake needs to drop heavily too.

But even without reducing the shake:
GET RID OF THE SMOKE

The smoke adds *nothing* to the game whatsoever. All it does is greatly reduce FPS and remove visibility for the victim.
If we had an actual weapon system whose entire purpose was to blind its target, that'd be fine.
But ACs and LRMs should NOT be able to halve your FPS and outright prevent your ability to not only see where the damage is coming from, but also to prevent your ability to retaliate.

The highlighted portion indicates that smoke does add to the game: suppression. Suppressive fire is good and is a valid component of modern warfare. It is meant to degrade the target's performance. It does not need to be produced by a weapon specifically designed to do that and only that.

As for FPS being reduced, that is a technology problem that needs to be fixed.

[Mystere]

Viktor Drake, on 15 October 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Honestly I just don't understand why people just want ez mode games anymore. Are they really that lazy or incapable of playing a game that can be hard at times?

That's a "Yes" on both counts. And it's even extremely hilarious when what they are playing is a war game.

[Mystere]

Gralzeim, on 15 October 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Suppression is about getting people to stay in cover because they don't want to be hit by your guns.

That is not quite true. Generally speaking, "suppressive fire" is "fire that degrades the performance of an enemy force below the level needed to fulfill their mission", and not just "forcing the enemy to stay in cover".

[Motroid]

I've heard it is possible to de-activate screenshake via the user.cgf since it is only a graphical effect and does not affect your aim. Can anyone confirm this?
I know that the impact of a gauss slug definitly affects your aim and moves your reticle off the position but imo only gauss rifles do this.
I think cockpitshake greatly adds to the immersion of MW:O and should be refined at some point. I also hope it is not possible to deactivate it via user.cfg so that even the tryhards have to deal with it unlike some other aspects of the game (Vision/trees, cockpit glass).

[Joseph Mallan]

Glythe, on 13 October 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Some of us have been saying that for a long time. Why does my cockpit shake when you hit my torso in an Atlas? Big mechs should shake less than small mechs. On the low end of the spectrum an AC/20 should knock over a light and an AC/5 should rock him pretty bad. On the high end of the spectrum an Atlas or Direwolf should only shake if you hit them in the head with an AC/5 or in the torso with an AC/20 (for about the same shake).

LOL have you taken a really good body shot lately?