99 replies to this topic

[M0rpHeu5]

They should had let the people roll with the change for at least a month before taking into acount their opinion.

[Gauvan]

Vassago Rain, on 13 October 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Sorry, pet peeve here but these are pictures of lens flare, which is something that only makes sense if you are viewing something secondhand through a lens, as is the case when you are watching a film. It's one of those things that used to be an unfortunate and unintended artifact that has turned into something humans expect to see because we've trained ourselves to by seeing it so much. It's fakey in the context of a first person game.

Anyway, player council. I don't think we can compare EVE and MWO--in the former there is a thriving social network within the game itself and that in-game influence is the core of the more formal player participation initiative CCP has built. In MWO the social interaction is mostly forum based--it's currently a team deathmatch game with limited interaction outside of immediate match-based goals. So a council in MWO would be a forum council and I don't think that's going to be representative in a way that would justify the effort on PGI's part.

I think what we have now, with dialogue between the company and the players in an open forum is much more useful than arepresentative scheme.

[KraftySOT]

Gauvan, on 13 October 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Sorry, pet peeve here but these are pictures of lens flare, which is something that only makes sense if you are viewing something secondhand through a lens, as is the case when you are watching a film. It's one of those things that used to be an unfortunate and unintended artifact that has turned into something humans expect to see because we've trained ourselves to by seeing it so much. It's fakey in the context of a first person game.

Anyway, player council. I don't think we can compare EVE and MWO--in the former there is a thriving social network within the game itself and that in-game influence is the core of the more formal player participation initiative CCP has built. In MWO the social interaction is mostly forum based--it's currently a team deathmatch game with limited interaction outside of immediate match-based goals. So a council in MWO would be a forum council and I don't think that's going to be representative in a way that would justify the effort on PGI's part.

I think what we have now, with dialogue between the company and the players in an open forum is much more useful than arepresentative scheme.

So what youre saying is, we need a thriving social network in game.

[DaZur]

"AN APPEAL TO RUSS AND PGI - STOP PAYING SO MUCH ATTENTION TO THIS FORUM!



Self-fulfilling prophecy? If they avoid forum commentary and suggestions then this very thread falls on deaf ears and the supporting premise is rendered mute...



Oh the paradox!

[PappySmurf]

KraftySOT said [So what youre saying is, we need a thriving social network in game. }


Bingo that's what me and my brother for the past 3 years have been trying to tell PGI build a clone MSN Gamming zone lobby launcher system with live chat functions for MWO let the community grow and build league's like past MechWarrior games did which resulted in 20 years of game survivability and thousands of fan and league websites .Plus over 1 million active players and fans but like MekTek PGI will go down with a sinking game and not understand why PC MechWarrior games were popular and why they worked in a niche market.

[Davegt27]

clan ER large laser is a beast, best weapon the clans have

oh what where we talking about ---modes no big deal let PGI do what it wants

[Mawai]

I disagree with the OP ...
... I think PGI ignoring customers can only be to their detriment.

They have shown remarkable improvement in listening recently. This has attracted the interest of long time fans who may or may not have been playing.

However, design decisions should not be and are not made (as far as I know) based on which ways the forum votes on things or on the opinions expressed. PGI should probably make that clear ... but PGI collects information and feedback from the forums and then makes their own decisions based on the data they have collected internally and the feedback. That's it.

[bobF]

This is likely one of the all-time most lucid posts on this forum. There's no need for a player council. You already have a platform for feedback, this forum, for posting ideas. Software and hourly paid lackeys will do a better (and way more objective) job of sifting through information than some small group of people with nothing better to do than obsess on mwo all day.

Give good, interesting ideas that result in fun and enjoyment of the game. Truly, the core gameplay of the game works great imo. Everyone wants to tweak and suggest these changes but do any of them add up to fun and enjoyment of the game? Only to a small amount of people. This is my problem with the council. Everyone's chief concern should be CW, and how it will be implemented. CW is all that matters, it will make or break this game. Why? It finally will give dimension and a point to the PvP, and when there's stakes to compete over, the combat and experience gets all the more rich. EvE is an extreme example. Warhammer Online was as well to a lessor degree. Getting perceived gains or losses through combat, beyond mere k/d ratio or w/l, gets the blood pumping, and finally provides a complete competitive experience.

CW could be a deep, immersive space strategy game complete with concerns of resource control, effecting economies, trade lanes, political influence, equipment availability, all played out in real time giant robot combat. Systems like these are every hardcore pvper's dream. You get twitchy explody fun, with some depth for the mind. Or, we will have essentially a map selection screen with some rules on how many mechs we can bring to a planet.

My humble idea for CW is as follows: PGI, go purchase an old boxed set online of Fasa's Succession Wars. Play some. Make that the base of CW. Suddenly, Assault mode could matter if someone is defending a manufacturing center. Suddenly, Conquest matters if accumulated points contribute to an overall planetary or regional "flipping" to another faction.

Anyhow, listening to our hairbrained ideas about the finer points of combat mechanics is inane. Help PGI make a better game, not a better combat. Offer hairbrained ideas instead about CW, imo. Honestly, I do think ECM could use help, only because it has the potential to add a rich layer of electronic warfare to the game. I'd personally like to see rock-scissors-paper activated abilities with a duration, that have the potential to be stacked or hard-countered. Like an FPS equivalent to MMOs and the buff/debuff/cc/counter mechanics PvP there generally has. Would likely take a lot of work though. Anyhow, my 2 creds.

[UnsafePilot]

bobF, on 13 October 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

There's no need for a player council. You already have a platform for feedback, this forum, for posting ideas. Software and hourly paid lackeys will do a better (and way more objective) job of sifting through information than some small group of people with nothing better to do than obsess on mwo all day.

If this were true Russ probably wouldn't have suggested the council in the first place.

I can't imagine many of their staff is willing to keep going after reading the thousandth slur filled/inane/anti-pgi rant post.

[Lily from animove]

stjobe, on 13 October 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

As I said, I don't disagree with your conclusions at all, nor, for the most part, with your reasoning on your way to those conclusions. I'm all for lowering the heat threshold and increasing dissipation (and implementing scaling heat penalties from roughly 50% heat), I'm just pointing out that when looked at from a TT perspective, the total heat capacity is "number of single heat sinks equivalents plus the thirty points of the residual heat scale" - because that's how much heat a 'mech can generate in one 10-second turn without being forcibly shut down.

Which means that in TT practice, that DWF can generate 77 heat in a 10-second turn without forced shut-down, which in turn means its total heat capacity is 78. Not 30. Not 48. Seventy-eight.

Whether one wants to limit per-instant heat generation to some number or not (yes, it'd probably be a great idea in our continuous system), one cannot argue that it's because of TT numbers without acknowledging one is doing some non-TT extrapolation of those numbers.

limited heattreshold and increased heat dissipation will cause people for lower alpha spams, and more sustained firepower. it would be a better thing. the issue will still be some builds violating this like dualgauss + some clan ERML which will still throw out a big alpha since some mechs can combine heavy and cool firepower with lots of lasers.

[bobF]

UnsafePilot, on 13 October 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

If this were true Russ probably wouldn't have suggested the council in the first place.

I can't imagine many of their staff is willing to keep going after reading the thousandth slur filled/inane/anti-pgi rant post.

Ah, this is where automation is our friend. We already have a polling system of sorts, the like button. The issue is getting awareness and buy-in from the general playerbase. Views, replies, etc can all be tracked, pulled up at will according to criteria, without anyone looking at anything. The truly good content should rise to the top. Again, the most important aspect is letting the masses know to come and post, and should qualify an announcement on the launcher if such a thing is ever implemented.

No one is going to get anywhere trying to perfectly balance combat. It's a diamond unicorn, that big money like Actiblizzard and EA can't even truly solve. Make a badass game, and then tweak.

[Green Mamba]

The pretty pictures of what could have been make me sad

[SixstringSamurai]

I'm sorry but his whole rant comes off as really condescending towards the player base in general. First off the problem wasn't the lack of mode choice, it was the complete disregard for the "voting" system, the fact that the game modes are lackluster at best and often the mode is secondary to the combat (this means it's not being executed right), and that while at a few select levels it was probably giving you a closer match at the upper end of the terrible player rating system it was dragging us down into the lower skill level in modes people chose to avoid ever seeing "US". This was not good for anyone. Do you find going into a match and having it end with 12-0 or 12-2 in under 5 minutes enjoyable? I can't imagine that's any sort of fun. It also isn't good for us either as without a challenge there is no growth and we have no where to place the bar in terms of who is at what level of skill. I also realize this is also a counter argument to my own point.

So this brings me to the second thing, the MWO community as a whole is not flexible at all. If somethings hard they cry foul and sadly PGI listens because they seem to be on a quest to make us all at least a little happy. This unfortunately has somewhat degraded the game experience. There's no reason to think in this game because if it's too hard someone will nerf the problem. This has sort of led to some false reinforcement of the player base. Think I'm wrong? How many people do you see or hear that are oh so proud of their 1000+ damage games in whatever mech they like that week?

You know who does 1000+ damage in a match?

People who cannot AIM!!!

or

People who have to carry a team that has no idea what strategy is and how the concept of teamwork works.

It seems like the majority is lazy. So lazy that instead of finding a way to counter a problem they sit there and complain about why they can or cannot lob 1000s of LRMs across the map. Anything in opposition to this is heresy and lurms will blot out the sun...etc. Look at all the challenges lately, did you notice the red flashing missile warnings and the NARCs flying everywhere? I did. It's absolutely terrible and this game is slowly being torn down to accommodate that behavior, almost as if the game is being made to make that easier, like this is all we are supposed to do.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

We already did that. The last two or so years.

SixStringSamurai, on 13 October 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'm sorry but his whole rant comes off as really condescending towards the player base in general. First off the problem wasn't the lack of mode choice, it was the complete disregard for the "voting" system, the fact that the game modes are lackluster at best and often the mode is secondary to the combat (this means it's not being executed right), and that while at a few select levels it was probably giving you a closer match at the upper end of the terrible player rating system it was dragging us down into the lower skill level in modes people chose to avoid ever seeing "US". This was not good for anyone. Do you find going into a match and having it end with 12-0 or 12-2 in under 5 minutes enjoyable? I can't imagine that's any sort of fun. It also isn't good for us either as without a challenge there is no growth and we have no where to place the bar in terms of who is at what level of skill. I also realize this is also a counter argument to my own point.

So this brings me to the second thing, the MWO community as a whole is not flexible at all. If somethings hard they cry foul and sadly PGI listens because they seem to be on a quest to make us all at least a little happy. This unfortunately has somewhat degraded the game experience. There's no reason to think in this game because if it's too hard someone will nerf the problem. This has sort of led to some false reinforcement of the player base. Think I'm wrong? How many people do you see or hear that are oh so proud of their 1000+ damage games in whatever mech they like that week?

You know who does 1000+ damage in a match?

People who cannot AIM!!!

or

People who have to carry a team that has no idea what strategy is and how the concept of teamwork works.

It seems like the majority is lazy. So lazy that instead of finding a way to counter a problem they sit there and complain about why they can or cannot lob 1000s of LRMs across the map. Anything in opposition to this is heresy and lurms will blot out the sun...etc. Look at all the challenges lately, did you notice the red flashing missile warnings and the NARCs flying everywhere? I did. It's absolutely terrible and this game is slowly being torn down to accommodate that behavior, almost as if the game is being made to make that easier, like this is all we are supposed to do.

Its ok, the player base cannot ever abide LRMs being viable weapons so theyll get nerfed soon enough

[Dracol]

Gauvan, on 13 October 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Sorry, pet peeve here but these are pictures of lens flare, which is something that only makes sense if you are viewing something secondhand through a lens, as is the case when you are watching a film. It's one of those things that used to be an unfortunate and unintended artifact that has turned into something humans expect to see because we've trained ourselves to by seeing it so much. It's fakey in the context of a first person game.

Just want to provide one real world example where lens flare is an issue and that is not related to viewing through a lens:
Lasic surgery and lights at night. Had it done a few years ago, and at night the "lens flare" affect is very noticeable. I get halos around any light. Thankfully not as over powering as shown in those pics, but its still there.

edit: Ok, technically, it is still viewing light through a "lens" since eyes have a lens, but you get the idea

Edited by Dracol, 13 October 2014 - 11:05 AM.

[GenJack]

I agree, the people who complain on this forum should be taken with a grain of salt.

I am happy though that PGI has taken to talking to us more and wanting our opinions, but most people really don't know what they want or what is good for them.

[Mirkk Defwode]

Koniving, on 13 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Don't forget the shutdown risks start at 14 heat not cooled, and when time-sliced...

I think this statement needs to be applied across the entire heat system. Your math makes sense, but the whole thing needs a complete overhaul to really get it in line with where it should be including high heatscale penalties.

I had posted a readjusted heatscale on another thread a while back with some general ideas including the ability for heatsinks to be destroyed through staying at high heat for too long.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

GenJack, on 13 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I agree, the people who complain on this forum should be taken with a grain of salt.

I am happy though that PGI has taken to talking to us more and wanting our opinions, but most people really don't know what they want or what is good for them.

Want to kill the game? Make it so they listen to noone and hear no complaints.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

People bemoan those who complain but without knowing ppl are unhappy and why those ppl will just leave.

[Koniving]

KraftySOT, on 13 October 2014 - 09:25 AM, said:

And of course theres the utter lack of a few of those people posting lately, and the distinct lack of them posting "So uh...they player council?" Unless they were banned...I assume theyre under NDA?

I have no idea who they considered "top men" to poll for the tier sheet....but I found it to be pretty spot on. It was nice to see not a single tier 1 medium. It was earth shatteringly honest.

It was mentioned that discussing the ideas in public was resulting in a lot of unhelpful and controversal debates. Even in private there's quite a bit of debating, I just quietly moved to the side there to let them bicker and watch as the ideas trickle out. One included a radar. One included changes to ECM. One simplified it as the invisible range wouldn't last so long.

The unified thing is that it shouldn't stop you from using LRMs but instead delay.

My favorite so far is that it delays your locks, but your missiles are fire and forget (so losing one lock won't matter much), and you lose lock each time you fire (completely ending spam-firing).

Another was that you'd be stealthy to the radar itself, but when looked at you'd be instantly recognized within 800 meters as an unknown target reticule that could be locked on, with no ID information (Unknown) and no damage/weaponry info possible until within about 400 meters. (Similar to Megamek's double blind stuff for the radar functionality).

I'm waiting until they get closer to what they want to do before I interject again. No one's under NDA that I know of.

Mirkk Defwode, on 13 October 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

I think this statement needs to be applied across the entire heat system. Your math makes sense, but the whole thing needs a complete overhaul to really get it in line with where it should be including high heatscale penalties.

I had posted a readjusted heatscale on another thread a while back with some general ideas including the ability for heatsinks to be destroyed through staying at high heat for too long.

Link? I'm curious.