65 replies to this topic

[Burktross]

Scratx, on 13 October 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

We most likely will never get Melee, get over it.

Unless and until we get fully functional collisions, it's not even an option.

I'm perfectly accepting of technical constraints, but I'm still not understanding the hostility against melee. It's a big part of mechs > tanks, yet people seem to be scoffing at the mere idea.

[DamnCatte]

As soon as a good mech game comes along that incorporates Melee combat, as should have always been in mech games, I'll jump ship faster than a drowning rat.

Frankly, I would have much rather have had melee combat introduced instead of clans. We've had clans in Mechwarrior games before. Let's try something new.

[Deadfish12345]

Why not just have melee as another hit scan weapon , like they do with lasers on any other game? For example battlefield 2 had a knife and Red Orchestra has a bayonet, just have an animation of the arm punching or leg kicking? Honestly it would be very simple to add ... you wouldn't need knockdowns, that could be added later.

example of the knife , it shoots a "projectile" and just has an animation

[Xarian]

Once collisions are done properly, implementing melee is just a matter of adding new animations. They are two sides of the same coin.

Since collisions are really not that tough to deal with (they're already in the game to a limited extent - you can't run through walls, for example), it's just a matter of making invisible, short-ranged weapons that have large amounts of impulse. Think a super-short range AC/20 shot with less damage and just as much screen shake, and you've got yourself a hatchet.

Deadfish12345, on 13 October 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

Why not just have melee as another hit scan weapon , like they do with lasers on any other game? For example battlefield 2 had a knife and Red Orchestra has a bayonet, just have an animation of the arm punching or leg kicking? Honestly it would be very simple to add ... you wouldn't need knockdowns, that could be added later.

example of the knife , it shoots a "projectile" and just has an animation

Oops, just noticed this. Yeah, melee attacks are super easy to implement if you divorce them completely from collisions.

There's really no reason that you need collisions to run melee attacks; it's just the most realistic method. Realism takes a backseat to being usable, however, especially since the final outcome would be the same:

• Mech makes punching animation
  
• Any mech in the correct path gets punched

It's just a single-projectile weapon with a different animation.

Also, it lets us introduce Triple Strength Myomer, which is one of the coolest upgrades in Battletech.

Edited by Xarian, 13 October 2014 - 01:37 PM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

No, and never.

If I wanted to play Rockem Sockem Robots. Id go to a thrift store and pick one up. There is enough face hugging in this game as it is.

[Quxudica]

Burktross, on 13 October 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

That's a damn shame... that's taking such a giant chunk out of the point of mechs over tanks. Shame we'll never see dedicated melee mechs like Axman and Hatchet too.



You act like the very idea is outlandish. Why not?

I doubt melee could be made viable in the games current state.

Melee would likely be useless in the game the way it currently is. the High Alpha Pin Point damage model the game uses means in all likelihood any mech that dedicated to melee would get ***** just trying to get into range and likely would be out of a fight after a single engagement. The point of melee weapons was to supplement the terrible accuracy of BT's ranged weapons, this is something MWO simply doesn't have. As such, unless they do silly amounts of damage, why would you ever take a hatchet hardpoint over any ranged weapon hardpoint.

Then ontop of those problems you have the fact we still do not have Map Selection, meaning you could wind up with a melee-centric mech on Alpine five times in a row. Good luck with that. Melee weapons are a CQC specialization tool, but the game we have doesn't like specialization due to the random map drops, and any time you suggest we actually be able to build mechs for specific environments instead of dropping 100% blind - certain people in the community seem to have a nerdrage coronary.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

No thanks to melee damage.

[Scratx]

The problem with implementing melee is that even the smallest implementation of it would still invoke a lot of resources that would probably be better spent elsewhere.

[UnsafePilot]

Burktross, on 13 October 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

I'm perfectly accepting of technical constraints, but I'm still not understanding the hostility against melee. It's a big part of mechs > tanks, yet people seem to be scoffing at the mere idea.

Too close to Gundam for my taste. My friend's and I never used melee on the table top so it normally doesn't occur to me that BT mechs might throw punches.

[Burktross]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 13 October 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

No, and never.

If I wanted to play Rockem Sockem Robots. Id go to a thrift store and pick one up. There is enough face hugging in this game as it is.

This Rockem Sockem Robots you speak of, as mentioned prior, has its own phase in TT-- it's not as outlandish as you deem.

UnsafePilot, on 13 October 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Too close to Gundam for my taste. My friend's and I never used melee on the table top so it normally doesn't occur to me that BT mechs might throw punches.

I think you're imagining x5 FISTICUFFS COMBO BREAKER, as opposed to say, an atlas simply kicking away an ankle biter that got too close.

Quxudica, on 13 October 2014 - 02:06 PM, said:

Then ontop of those problems you have the fact we still do not have Map Selection, meaning you could wind up with a melee-centric mech on Alpine five times in a row.

I see your point, but I wasn't suggesting melee just because of hatchets, per say, rather hatchets as an inevitable result of it. Besides, you wouldn't need to specialize in melee to have the ability-- any mech with hand actuators and legs would be able to do simple swats and kicks

Edited by Burktross, 13 October 2014 - 02:25 PM.

[Jetfire]

Very small chance in main game... slightly smaller chance that there will someday be formal Solaris combat with melee. I would say minimum of 2 years out.

[stjobe]

AlexEss, on 13 October 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

3: Height scaling... Or how to make the Atlas and the Commando fight without it looking like utter waste.

Just make a "punch" animation; there's no 'mech small enough that another 'mech's arms miss it completely.

If a Commando punches an Atlas, it'll have to stand on something to hit above the waist; that's fine. Light 'mechs don't do all that much damage punching anyway (2.5 damage for a Commando, 5 if it somehow got a melee weapon - you're better off firing another ML).

Kicks only targets the legs, so just make a "kick" animation.

Couple these to key presses; "p" makes you punch, "k" makes you kick - if you hit something, do damage, if not, nothing happens.

Charging is just running into something, so that should be easy.

DFA is trickier, because we'd have to have proper jump jets for that and not the hover jets we currently have. But it's not an animation or balance issue at all.

UnsafePilot, on 13 October 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Too close to Gundam for my taste. My friend's and I never used melee on the table top so it normally doesn't occur to me that BT mechs might throw punches.

Boy did you ever miss out on a vital part of the BattleTech experience. Physical combat is just as important as weapon combat in BattleTech - and it's damn fun as well.

Edited by stjobe, 13 October 2014 - 02:28 PM.

[SgtMagor]

If PGI would at least bring back collision, so ramming, weapon impacts(ie: ac20 hits a light mech and falls) and DFA's would work that would be a big step forward.

[Jon McAdder]

Are those who are not keen to see melee combat ... Clan 'mech users? Oh, I see.

[AztecD]

yea its to much of a tall order for PGI

[Quxudica]

Burktross, on 13 October 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

This Rockem Sockem Robots you speak of, as mentioned prior, has its own phase in TT-- it's not as outlandish as you deem.



I think you're imagining x5 FISTICUFFS COMBO BREAKER, as opposed to say, an atlas simply kicking away an ankle biter that got too close.



I see your point, but I wasn't suggesting melee just because of hatchets, per say, rather hatchets as an inevitable result of it. Besides, you wouldn't need to specialize in melee to have the ability-- any mech with hand actuators and legs would be able to do simple swats and kicks

I doubt we'd see that kind of implementation. On top of all the animation work required to update every mech in the game, it's possible such things would require complete skeleton revamps of some mechs. It seems to me it's far more likely, in the unlikely event melee were ever added, that it'd be restricted to new mech variants designed with melee in mind.

[Johnny Z]

Burktross, on 13 October 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

It seems throughout the mechwarrior franchise, there's been a startling lack of melee. It's rather appalling that such a core mechanic is left out (Adds a whole new way to look at mechs)... and with that said
Will we ever get melee combat? If so when?
Is there any word on this yet, or has anyone suggested a good system for it?

Ummm No

[TexAce]

Hospy, on 13 October 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

Hopefully this resizes correctly...




Anyway, that's about the greatest Battletech moment ever.

Although I LOVE that picture, I'm on the NO-side of this argument. I do not WANT melee, because for me it just feels stupid. Our mechs are no gundamns or power ranger bosses....

On the other side, what I would like is a shield-arm. You equiip it like everything else, it uses up x hardpoints on your arm and you can load it up with as much armor as you can carry, with armor weighting as much as normal armor. Done. That would be cool. A 10-ton shield would have 333 armor points for example (one Armor point is 0.03 tons right?).

Edited by TexAss, 13 October 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[Scratx]

Jon McAdder, on 13 October 2014 - 02:55 PM, said:

Are those who are not keen to see melee combat ... Clan 'mech users? Oh, I see.

You're reading way too much into people's posts.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Gharland The Red, on 13 October 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

As soon as a good mech game comes along that incorporates Melee combat, as should have always been in mech games, I'll jump ship faster than a drowning rat. Frankly, I would have much rather have had melee combat introduced instead of clans. We've had clans in Mechwarrior games before. Let's try something new.

Heavy Gear will have melee.
To all melee h8ters go somewhere else. Hawk is awaiting you. Melee is a big part in battletech game and lore. Its a reason of existence of count less amount of deferent mech designs. Just to name few ; charger, ti-tsiang, no-dachi, berserker, axeman, ghurka, preevater, hatchetman, dragon, etc.
So as soon as they realize that melee is out there and can be a major selling point, we will get it sooner then you expect.