109 replies to this topic

[Robomomo2000]

So, yes every one knows that the mediums are bigger then they should be, but I frankly never realized how serious it was till just recently while playing one of my own mediums.

-First off, I am a medium, and the rest of my lance dropped as lights. Then I though they were all invisible as I frantically searched for about 10 seconds before realizing they came up to my knees.

-Secondly, when your Trebuchet stands about a head taller then an Awesome, that is not awesome...

-A Vindicator's cockpit is twice the size of a Jagger's. That's twice the person base on in game view.

-The Atlas cockpit (eye) is to small to be scale with other mechs

So, is there really nothing PGI will do about this, because right now, you might as well go with lights or heavy classes at the moment due to damage intake and armor differentiation. Can they not just take the medium mech's proportion's down a couple of notches so the cockpits all line up? And I don't even mean all at once, they could do it over the next couple of months or a year if they needed to, but until then, not sure how much I can stand taking 50% more hits then I would in a real sized medium class mech.

Thank you,
Robomomo2000

[Alistair Winter]

Medium mechs the size of assault mechs, and the smallest and the light mech in the game, which is supposed to scout for the rest of the team, has a cockpit like this, while the assault mechs, which are supposed to rely on other mechs for scouting, have a cockpit like this.

[Green Mamba]

The Griffins are also oversized Mediums

[LT. HARDCASE]

Green Mamba, on 14 October 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

The Griffins are also oversized Mediums

Every medium is oversized.

When I hit the lotto, I'm going to buy PGI, just so I can hire staff that's dedicated solely to resizing medium mechs.

[Robomomo2000]

I am responding to Alistair Winter who responded first... I can't ever seem to work quote right.

Haha, I see where you are going with that. I think it is because the lights go so fast their cockpits can't handle the air pressure, but are almost impervious to head shots like all other mechs.

Edited by Robomomo2000, 14 October 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[FupDup]

This is what Russ calls "55 ton mech size."

[Angel of Annihilation]

I agree. Honestly all the issues that currently exist with mediums would be resolved if they actually scaled them correctly. They are just such big targets and so easy to hit that they are generally quite a bit more fragile than they should be which in turn just magnifies their other weaknesses. Also there are a few heavies like the QKD that are in need of a size adjustment as well.

[Gamuray]

Inner sphere medium size is bad... It only gets worse when you look at clan medium mech size... which is about double the size of an IS medium mech. Comparing the hunchback to the nova though that difference increases to 3 times larger... at THE SAME WEIGHT. Seems like they build every mech without any sort of reference point like another mech and sometimes without referencing human size (ahem,commando cockpit size)

[Angel of Annihilation]

Gamuray, on 15 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Inner sphere medium size is bad... It only gets worse when you look at clan medium mech size... which is about double the size of an IS medium mech. Comparing the hunchback to the nova though that difference increases to 3 times larger... at THE SAME WEIGHT. Seems like they build every mech without any sort of reference point like another mech and sometimes without referencing human size (ahem,commando cockpit size)

Both factions have similar issues. Nova is indeed huge, honestly just as tall as a Cataphract and wider which makes a mech that already has bad hit boxes even worse. However the Stormcrow is appropriately scaled. Ironically this is one of the reasons the main reasons a Stormcrow is a better mech than the Nova.

Same for IS mechs. The Hunchback for example is almost perfectly scaled, Backjacks are in a good place too but then you look at a Centurion, Griffin or Shadow Hawk to name a few and realize they are almost the same size as mechs 15-20 tons heavier, yeah there is an issue.

Alot of heavies have this issue to. Quickdraw is 65 tons yet is massive next to a 60 ton Dragon. Catapult at 65 tons is bigger than a Stalker at 85 tons.

So yeah, it would be really nice if PGI modified the scaling and honestly alot of the issues will all these mechs would be corrected if scaling was corrected. I mean size and geometry might even have more impact than hard points and engine sizes when it comes to how well a mech performs.

[UrsusMorologus]

I agree, resize should be a top priority after CW

[Felio]

Unfortunately to resize a 'mech, they would have to recreate it from scratch -- modeling, texturing, hitboxing, placing the cockpit camera, all of it.

What they need to do is develop some kind of software that would make it easier. Imagine the benefits to balance and role warfare if they could use size as a factor.

[Pendraco]

Viktor Drake, on 15 October 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Both factions have similar issues. Nova is indeed huge, honestly just as tall as a Cataphract and wider which makes a mech that already has bad hit boxes even worse. However the Stormcrow is appropriately scaled. Ironically this is one of the reasons the main reasons a Stormcrow is a better mech than the Nova.

Same for IS mechs. The Hunchback for example is almost perfectly scaled, Backjacks are in a good place too but then you look at a Centurion, Griffin or Shadow Hawk to name a few and realize they are almost the same size as mechs 15-20 tons heavier, yeah there is an issue.

Alot of heavies have this issue to. Quickdraw is 65 tons yet is massive next to a 60 ton Dragon. Catapult at 65 tons is bigger than a Stalker at 85 tons.

So yeah, it would be really nice if PGI modified the scaling and honestly alot of the issues will all these mechs would be corrected if scaling was corrected. I mean size and geometry might even have more impact than hard points and engine sizes when it comes to how well a mech performs.

Centurion, Griffin and Shadow Hawk are consider to be great mediums by many - all three of those can tank damage and zombie like no other. Personally, I think mediums are in a pretty good spot....I just think most people prefer Heavies and assualts.

<Flame suit activate>

[Zultor]

This is one of the reasons why on the mech Tier chart there are no medium mechs in Tier 1.

[DaZur]

While I fully back the premise that scale is whacky... One thing some of you folks need to stop doing is equating "height" = mass.

Absolutely... Scale of mediums specifically as well as a few lights and heavies need minor adjustment. That said, let's not be so myopic to focus solely on mech height as the defining qualifier.

I'm not even going into mass displacement as the most accurate metric of "scale" as no matter how hard I try to explain it... it's just so hard to conceptualize... It's not worth debating.

Edited by DaZur, 15 October 2014 - 11:18 AM.

[UnsafePilot]

DaZur, on 15 October 2014 - 11:18 AM, said:

While I fully back the premise that scale is whacky... One thing some of you folks need to stop doing is equating "height" = mass.

Absolutely... Scale of mediums specifically as well as a few lights and heavies need minor adjustment. That said, let's not be so myopic to focus solely on mech height as the defining qualifier.

I'm not even going into mass displacement as the most accurate metric of "scale" as no matter how hard I try to explain it... it's just so hard to conceptualize... It's not worth debating.

Was actually about to post a similar thing. I know a handful of people with relatively similar heights and shoulder width's to me and none of us have the same weight. In a few cases it's pretty dramatically different despite having similar looking profiles from a distance.

I'm all for another scaling pass but I don't think that most of them are as horribly off as is sometimes claimed.

Edited by UnsafePilot, 15 October 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[UrsusMorologus]

The reason to resize is to buff defense, not for any kind of realism (FYI as soon as we talk about [mechs|dragons] realism is already moot)

Mediums have the lowest survivabilty--they do not have the ability to avoid taking damage like lights, and do not have the HP to tank damage like heavies. Maybe if they had disproportionate firepower they could justify it with greater risk for greater reward, but the tonnage mechanic in MW doesnt allow that. Damage input or damage output, one or the other has to change for mediums to become top-tier mech platforms, cause right now there is almost no reason to play them. Reducing their size a bit would make them able to evade damage a little more readily (people would miss more shots on mediums), which would buff survivabilty a little bit, and would make them a little more attractive.

There are other options, but this is probably the most direct and sensible approach that doesnt require breaking some other part of the game or contradict lore outright.

[keith]

sadly pgi will never adjust med mechs. my guess is the hit boxes are bound to something more difficult then a % change. after that they would have to readjust ever camo to fit on the new mech size.

[HlynkaCG]

Kevjack, on 14 October 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

Every medium is oversized.

When I hit the lotto, I'm going to buy PGI, just so I can hire staff that's dedicated solely to resizing medium mechs.

I disagree, the Hunchback and Blackjack are quite reasonably scaled.

Thing is that the Centurion Trenchbucket, Griffon etc... should all be similar in size, not a head taller, and half-again as wide.

[HlynkaCG]

keith, on 15 October 2014 - 12:00 PM, said:

sadly pgi will never adjust med mechs. my guess is the hit boxes are bound to something more difficult then a % change. after that they would have to readjust ever camo to fit on the new mech size.

I seem to recall a town hall meeting where they mention that the real limitation was the animations and hard-points. Re-scaling models and textures is pretty straight forward, I can do simple percentage-wise modifications of a mech textures included (or any game asset really) in Blender in something like 20 min.

[Featherwood]

Kevjack, on 14 October 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

Every medium is oversized.

When I hit the lotto, I'm going to buy PGI, just so I can hire staff that's dedicated solely to resizing medium mechs.

Hey, please keep a note in case you will buy PGI - first of all sack that ... joke of a game designer Paul Inouye. Next you may resize Mechs and safely revamp game mechanics.

Edit: aye, forgot - please!

Edited by Featherwood, 15 October 2014 - 12:07 PM.