176 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

Curccu, on 14 February 2019 - 05:17 AM, said:

Right now that may be true but in the past there has always been very strong ballistics mechs that are just very good.
Edit: and even now we got Sleipnir, MKII-B and Annihilator.

i view that as a sign that balance is improving. when cacs started getting buffed and is started getting uacs everywhere, that's probably where ballistics started getting really good and vomit was becoming less meta. missiles also seem to be coming back. balance is probibly the best its ever been.

[Der Geisterbaer]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

My thing is it takes the skill out and lets the computer do the work for you.

Which clearly indicates which direction of "code of honor" and "how things are supposed to be done" you lean into but still doesn't tell whether or not you have a decent enough level of understanding of what macros can do and what they can't do.

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

Are you really playing when your handing some of that playing of to the computer?

Are you really driving a car if you don't do manual gear shifts? Is a present day commercial pilot truly flying if in these days he relies on fully or at least partially automated and otherwise still heavily assisted take-off and landing?
Let players be their individual judge on their own game experience and don't try to shove your perspective onto them. You're free not use any macros, dedicated gaming peripherals, low resolution monitors or any other form of self limitation if that makes your boat float better for you.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 February 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

Which clearly indicates which direction of "code of honor" and "how things are supposed to be done" you lean into but still doesn't tell whether or not you have a decent enough level of understanding of what macros can do and what they can't do.



Are you really driving a car if you don't do manual gear shifts? Is a present day commercial pilot truly flying if in these days he relies on fully or at least partially automated and otherwise still heavily assisted take-off and landing?
Let players be their individual judge on their own game experience and don't try to shove your perspective onto them. You're free not use any macros, dedicated gaming peripherals, low resolution monitors or any other form of self limitation if that makes your boat float better for you.

Yea it mater if your racing in a game aka sport yes it matters. You think there are not rules for F1 and he he Nascar racing?

[Der Geisterbaer]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

Yea it mater if your racing in a game aka sport yes it matters.

Interestingly enough the truth there is: No it doesn't matter until someone gets the rule commitee of the associated sport to turn personal codes of honor into actual sports regulations. And each and every season (in pretty much every sport there is - particularly tech related sports like car racing) the participants do their best to push the boundaries of the established rules and providing their stars with technical advantages.

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:32 AM, said:

You think there are not rules for F1 and he he Nascar racing?

Now your fallacious attempt of creating a false dilemma aside: Show me the codified part on "game rules" for MWO that deem macros as "cheat". Until then you just better shove your personal judgments on macro usage and let others be the judge of their own enjoyment.

Side note: Personally I am not actively using any macros in this game due to various reasons. I'm just not imposing any of them onto others and I'm certainly not going to call anyone a "cheater" for using macros in mwo either until the day that their use is officially deemed a cheat.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 February 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Interestingly enough the truth there is: No it doesn't matter until someone gets the rule commitee of the associated sport to turn personal codes of honor into actual sports regulations. And each and every season (in pretty much every sport there is - particularly tech related sports like car racing) the participants do their best to push the boundaries of the established rules and providing their stars with technical advantages.



Now your fallacious attempt of creating a false dilemma aside: Show me the codified part on "game rules" for MWO that deem macros as "cheat". Until then you just better shove your personal judgments on macro usage and let others be the judge of their own enjoyment.

Side note: Personally I am not actively using any macros in this game due to various reasons. I'm just not imposing any of them onto others and I'm certainly not going to call anyone a "cheater" for using macros in mwo either until the day that their use is officially deemed a cheat.

Why do people use macros? Maybe it because they can't do these things with out them under there own skill as a player;) If you were a racer and you could not make a turn on a track and put a thing in your car to do the turn for you using technology maybe that's not so great;)

Edited by SirSmokes, 14 February 2019 - 10:47 AM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Why do people use macros?

And their reasons matter why exactly? Oh wait, they want to use a technological edge (that actually has its draw-backs) in an environment where they are allowed to use such an edge.

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Maybe it because they can't do these things with out them under there own skill as a player;)

So?

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

If you were a racer and you could not make a turn on a track and put a thing in your car to do the turn for you using technology maybe that's not so great;)

I see, the fallacies are still strong with you. The fun part still is: Until an already existing rule prohibits the use of a certain aid-system no serious racing driver will actively shy away from using a new technology that helps him to perform better. Why do you think that pretty much every F1 season at least one team is close to getting "banned" over a certain new system? Heck, these days it's Ferrari facing allegations of "cheating" with their battery system. In earlier seasons the then still not banned diffusors created advantages for pilots that had access to the technology ... then there was the moving aero-dynamics parts controversy. And guess what? None of the pilots that had access to these technologies ever actively tried not to use them ... and unlike macros for computer games the tech almost never came with similar draw-backs.

=> You can repeat your opinion based tantrums and fallacious (and even out-right incorrect) claims as much as you like but until PGI officially rules macros as "illegal" for their game those macros simply are not "cheats" and their usage is up to each player's own discretion and you'll have to accept that ... and in terms of your own sanity you'd be best advised not to just accept but also respect that.

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 14 February 2019 - 11:06 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 February 2019 - 11:05 AM, said:

And their reasons matter why exactly? Oh wait, they want to use a technological edge (that actually has its draw-backs) in an environment where they are allowed to use such an edge.



So?



I see, the fallacies are still strong with you. The fun part still is: Until an already existing rule prohibits the use of a certain aid-system no serious racing driver will actively shy away from using a new technology that helps him to perform better. Why do you think that pretty much every F1 season at least one team is close to getting "banned" over a certain new system? Heck, these days it's Ferrari facing allegations of "cheating" with their battery system. In earlier seasons the then still not banned diffusors created advantages for pilots that had access to the technology ... then there was the moving aero-dynamics parts controversy. And guess what? None of the pilots that had access to these technologies ever actively tried not to use them ... and unlike macros for computer games the tech almost never came with similar draw-backs.

=> You can repeat your opinion based tantrums and fallacious (and even out-right incorrect) claims as much as you like but until PGI officially rules macros as "illegal" for their game those macros simply are not "cheats" and their usage is up to each player's own discretion and you'll have to accept that ... and in terms of your own sanity you'd be best advised not to just accept but also respect that.

Point still stands they can't do it on there own;)

[Der Geisterbaer]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

Point still stands they can't do it on there own;)

Which still is no "point" in the first place. As I said: Your fallacies are still strong in you.

[Curccu]

Der Geisterbaer, on 14 February 2019 - 10:16 AM, said:

There's no need for any kind of "knowledge" or better "understanding" how certain things work in order to allow people - that want to adhere to a (self-imposed) "code of honor" with regards to how certain things are "supposed to be done" - to consider anything not adhering to said "code" as a "cheat". They'll form that opionion regardless ... and such opinions are not limited to just computer games and the maco usage therein.

Everyone can have their own code that's cool, but if person starts to publicly claim something is cheat without even knowing what he is really talking about, that's BS.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Curccu, on 14 February 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

Everyone can have their own code that's cool, but if person starts to publicly claim something is cheat without even knowing what he is really talking about, that's BS.

Why do people use them that's an important questions;)

Edited by SirSmokes, 14 February 2019 - 12:11 PM.

[Curccu]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 12:06 PM, said:

Why do people use them that's an important questions;)

Some people are lazy to keep tag button down whole game, doesn't give any real advantage...
Some people are too lazy to click click their UACs, doesn't give any real advantage...
Some people like to chainfire their AC2s as it looks and sounds cool, but it's actually disadvantage compared to shooting all of the AC2s at same time...

Personally I don't use macros but hell if someone wants to use them, go a head because there is no real advantage to gain that way.

[Curccu]

LordNothing, on 14 February 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

i view that as a sign that balance is improving. when cacs started getting buffed and is started getting uacs everywhere, that's probably where ballistics started getting really good and vomit was becoming less meta. missiles also seem to be coming back. balance is probibly the best its ever been.

Imo balance was it's best just before new skilltree.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Curccu, on 14 February 2019 - 12:27 PM, said:

Some people are lazy to keep tag button down whole game, doesn't give any real advantage...
Some people are too lazy to click click their UACs, doesn't give any real advantage...
Some people like to chainfire their AC2s as it looks and sounds cool, but it's actually disadvantage compared to shooting all of the AC2s at same time...

Personally I don't use macros but hell if someone wants to use them, go a head because there is no real advantage to gain that way.

Sure there is. I see people pulling of stuff that really hard to do consistently with no effort;) Come on.

Edited by SirSmokes, 14 February 2019 - 12:41 PM.

[Der Geisterbaer]

Curccu, on 14 February 2019 - 11:56 AM, said:

Everyone can have their own code that's cool, but if person starts to publicly claim something is cheat without even knowing what he is really talking about, that's BS.

Well, it's an opinion ... and those are like the rear end opening in the human body ... normally everyone has one and they tend to come with unpleasant odors at times. So it shouldn't come as a surprise that an opinion can be "BS"

Edited by Der Geisterbaer, 14 February 2019 - 12:42 PM.

[Curccu]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 12:40 PM, said:

Sure there is. I see people pulling of stuff that really hard to do consistently with no effort;) Come on.

What kind of "stuff"?

[The pessimistic optimist]

Curccu, on 14 February 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

What kind of "stuff"?

Like macro for mech with a billion AC2 yea you can do that manually but it pretty hard to keep that up;)

[Curccu]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

Like macro for mech with a billion AC2 yea you can do that manually but it pretty hard to keep that up;)

but IT DOES NOT GIVE ADVANTAGE over shooting them all at once, you will lose some DPS and lose pinpoint damage.

[Xiphias]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 01:39 PM, said:

Like macro for mech with a billion AC2 yea you can do that manually but it pretty hard to keep that up;)

It's actually pretty easy to do with chain fire and a few weapon groups.

Do you think chain fire should be removed? It's just an in game macro to cycle through your weapon groups.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Xiphias, on 14 February 2019 - 01:46 PM, said:

It's actually pretty easy to do with chain fire and a few weapon groups.

Do you think chain fire should be removed? It's just an in game macro to cycle through your weapon groups.

Guess I am just crazy and think people should play games under there own power and skill whatever *shurgs*.

[Xiphias]

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 10:22 AM, said:

My thing is it takes the skill out and lets the computer do the work for you. Are you really playing when your handing some of that playing of to the computer?

If you've ever used streaks or LRMs you're letting the computer do most of the work for you.

SirSmokes, on 14 February 2019 - 01:48 PM, said:

Guess I am just crazy and think people should play games under there own power and skill whatever *shurgs*.

The issue is that you are trying to force your idea of what is right on other people even when it's clearly allowed by the rules.

I'll ask again, what's the difference between chain fire and a macro? If the intent is important (as you've argued) then we should take chain fire out of the game, right?

Should we really make players hold down a button to keep tag on (which could be achieved by setting a weight on a key)?

Personally, I don't use macros. I don't see where they provide any significant advantage in the game, but I support the right of people to use macros as long as PGI allows it.