15 replies to this topic

[Gauvan]

Ballistics are one of the three weapons types in MWO (Energy and Missile being the others). Almost all ballistic weapons are autocannons—the exceptions are Machine Guns and Gauss Rifles which operate differently than ACs and are discussed separately below.

Ballistics are characterized by being low heat, ammo-dependant weapons with projectile travel time, which are heavy and take a large number of critical slots when compared with other weapons. Ballistics weapons do full damage to a target up to their optimal range and then do decreasing damage to their maximum range.

All Ballistic weapons require ammunition which is is stored in critical slots on the mech. Ammo is installed in single slot increments. Each type of ammo is specific to a particular weapon, e.g., AC/5 ammo will not work in an Ultra AC/5. Generally, ammo is bought in one ton lots, but it is possible to buy 1/2 ton lots which take one slot but weigh less. Ammo location on the mech does not matter, e.g., ammo stored in the left leg will be magically fed to a weapon in the right arm without delay.

Autocannons

Autocannons (abbreviated AC) are classified numerically by the damage they do. An AC/10 is capable of doing 10 points of damage, an AC/5 can do 5, and so on.

As a rule, the range of autocannons decrease as the damage they do increases. AC/2's have the longest range and AC/20's the shortest. Also, smaller AC's have a faster rate-of-fire.

Autocannons come in three types: standard, LB-X, and Ultra.

A standard Inner Sphere AC will fire one shell with each trigger press. If that shell hits, it will inflict the full damage for that size AC to a single location.

LB-X autocannons work like a shotgun. They fire a number of 1 point damage pellets in a cluster that spreads damage over a small area. For example, an IS LB 10-X fires ten pellets. LB-X autocannons have an increased chance to inflict a critical hit when they strike an unarmored section of a target. Critical hits are covered in my article on damage.

Ultra autocannons operate just like standard autocannons but have the additional ability to fire a second time before the weapon cooldown (recharge) is complete. This can be done by holding down the trigger button or by tapping the trigger. This second shot has a chance of jamming the Ultra autocannon (currently 15%) taking the weapon offline while the jam is cleared (currently 5 seconds).

Inner Sphere (IS) and Clan autocannons behave slightly differently to one another. First, Clan mechs have access to a wider variety of AC types than IS mechs. Second, Clan autocannons fire burst of projectiles versus a similar IS autocannon firing a single shell. For example, an IS AC/10 fires one shell which causes 10 damage on impact—a Clan AC/10 fires four shells each of which cause 2.5 points of damage. This behavior is consistent with Clan weapons being more damage-over-time than IS weapons.

Gauss Rifles

Gauss rifles are a heavy Ballistic weapon type with several unique aspects.

The firing mechanism of a gauss rifle differs from other weapons in the game. For every other weapon currently in the game, the firing mechanism is to tap the trigger key once to fire a single shot, or hold down the trigger to fire continuously after each cooldown period. To fire a gauss rifle, the player must hold down the trigger to charge up the weapon (about 3/4 of a second) then release the trigger to fire. If the trigger is not released after a period, the weapon resets and must be charged up again.

There are three indicators to help judge the current charge state of the gauss rifle. First there is an audible cue for the charge up period. This can be difficult to hear if you are taking damage. Second, the weapon group indicator in the lower right of the screen displays a progress bar as the weapon is charged, Third, and possibly most useful, each weapon group has a status indicator around the targeting reticle in the form of six rectangles, three on each side of the reticle. When the gauss is not being fired, the reticle indicator is amber. When the gauss is being charged, the indicator is yellow, and when it is ready to fire the indicator is green. (When a weapon group is on cooldown, the indicator is red.)

Gauss weapons also differ from other Ballistics in that gauss ammo is inert and cannot explode like other types of ammo. However, the gauss rifle itself is capable of exploding, and at greater frequency than ammo. When a gauss rifle is destroyed or takes a critical hit is has a 90% chance of exploding (ammo has a 10% chance). This explosion is treated the same way as an ammo explosion.

Machine Guns

Machine guns are another Ballistic weapon with a differing set of mechanics. Machine guns are short range weapons that do extremely low raw damage. However, like LB-X ACs, machine guns get a bonus to their chance of triggering a critical hit. It’s important to note that sections of a mech with armor are immune to critical hits so machine guns are much more useful when targeted at a section of a mech where the armor has been destroyed.

Machine guns have a rapid rate of fire, which when coupled with the critical hit mechanic can make them very deadly to damaged mechs.

Unlike other projectile-based weapons, the game engine goes not track each machine gun projectile--instead the weapon projects a cone from the firing point of the machine gun and hits are randomly assigned to targets within the cone. The flamethrower Energy weapon uses a similar mechanic with a more visually obvious in-game effect. The implication is that machine guns are not precise except at very, very close range. For this reason, machine guns are almost always taken as a group of multiple weapons to maximize the chance of a hit to a damaged section and to maximize the chances of a critical hit.

For a full listing of each weapon's statistics, I would suggest reading the equipment page at http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment.

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This is one of a series of articles on concepts in MWO. If you found this article helpful, you may wish to read the other articles listed in this post.

Edited by Gauvan, 10 November 2014 - 08:34 AM.

[Deshiva]

You should look deeper at ammo, it does matter where you put it.

1. Ammo explode if damaged, this has a chance to happen when your armor is gone and they hit structure. This is devestating to is xl engines.

2. The ammo is drawn in a specific order depending on placement, i don't recall the exact details.

The rule of thumb with ammo is for IS almost always to be put in legs or head, possibly arms. Don't ever put them in torsos, the damage from ammo explosion spreads to other sections nearby. Not good when the next section to your torso is the core. In a standard engine type you can put in an ammo case to limit the danger. For xl it's a death sentence in torso with or without ammo case.

For clan it doesn't really matter, every part has auto ammo case and there is never room for stuff in the legs as far as i noticed.

[Gauvan]

Deshiva, on 17 October 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

2. The ammo is drawn in a specific order depending on placement, i don't recall the exact details.

Thanks. According to this post the order of depletion is:

HD --> CT --> RT --> LT--> LA --> RA--> LL--> RL

That was out of date. The current intended behavior is:

CT --> RT --> LT--> RA --> LA --> LL --> RL --> HD [ref]

I didn't want to get into the details of damage as that would be applicable to all ammo, not just ACs. But briefly, ammo can take a critical hit and be destroyed like other comonents. When it does there is a chance (10% I think) that the ammo will 'cook-off' and explode inside the mech. The explosion damage is listed on smurfy. This damage is treated like incoming weapon damage but it bypasses any armor. It will probably destroy the section of the mech with the ammo and extra damage gets passed on to the next section in line on the damage allocation chart. C.A.S.E can stop the passing on of damage but that's a whole 'nother topic.

In brief, because it can explode you do not want to put ammo in highly vulnerable areas. On almost all mechs the arms are the most vulnerable section and the head is the least vulnerable. Legs are a special case as on lights and JJ mechs legs are often shot off, where on ground-bound assaults they infrequently are.

Edited by Gauvan, 14 November 2014 - 01:07 PM.

[Gauvan]

Updated the post to include info on Gauss and MGs and updated the topic title to match.

[kosmos1214]

nice can we get a sticky on these?

[--Saint--]

Nice thread. Personally love the sound of MGs but its their effectiveness in one specific situation that keeps me from sleepinig. I´m interested in the use of MGs paired with SPLas. Let me give a short explanation of the issue:

At the moment I´m using my Kitfox as an ecm extreme range scout looking for early LRM targets (CProbe+Tcomp1+advanced sensors2) with an ER PPC for range sniping. I´m annoying as hell at long range, so eventually someone will come and try to get close. Anything larger than a light and I run, because I think of the build as being a light mech trapper. So once I've tempted someone into a dogfight (who can resist tangling with a "weak" kitfox??? Come on you know its true!!!) I switch from my ER PPC to my short range weapons

Here is where I run into a build issue. My weapons of choice are lasers backed by MGs. Initially I went for 2 MLas and 2 MGs but the heat was difficult to manage so now I´m experimenting the SPlas x2 + MG x2

Now, the heat is manageable (easily stable even in hot maps as long as I don´t go wild and cram PPC shots in there) but I´ve noticed the rate of fire of my twin splas is so high I can chain fire them without stopping. So my question is, do you think the MG´s are useful when I´m already achieving a high fire rate with my Splas? Would the build without the MGs take down a mech significantly more slowly, or by keeping the MGs in the mix do I become a nightmare vs lights?

I do appreciate the fact that psychologically, getting pelted constantly is unnerving to any pilot in a dogfight, but perhaps that 1 ton may be better used for something else? Also, I tend to get distracted by managing both weapon systems simultaneously reducing my accuracy (a factor to be considered).

I already have 2x AMS to ward off LRM support (if ecm is being jammed) and SRM´s from my opponent, so really one more heat sink would be the only real alternative to the weapons, which is nice because PPC heat build up does not dissipate at all if ím rapid firing my splas..

So is it worth keeping my MGs or not?

Edited by Nighthawk88, 09 November 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[JonahGrimm]

@nighthawk -

Bluntly - once the armor's off of a location, MGs act like a buzzsaw. They'll crit out an open location faster than just about any other weapon applied to that spot.

My nova with 4MGs is a brute for just that reason - once my lasers open you up, the MGs make big holes.

That's what they're for, that's what they do well - and that should tell you their utility. If you're sanding armor off and hitting open spots often? MGs are fantastic.

[--Saint--]

Thanks JonahGrimm, will take to the field and hack away then!

[Tylerchu]

Gauvan, on 17 October 2014 - 01:05 PM, said:

The explosion damage is listed on smurfy. This damage is treated like incoming weapon damage but it bypasses any armor. It will probably destroy the section of the mech with the ammo and extra damage gets passed on to the next section in line on the damage allocation chart. C.A.S.E can stop the passing on of damage but that's a whole 'nother topic.

Ammo explosions do 150 dmg with a full slot. That's guaranteed to destroy at least two body parts.

[Gauvan]

Nighthawk88, on 09 November 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

So is it worth keeping my MGs or not?

This is just my own experience; I wouldn’t call myself a great expert on min-maxing builds. I have been playing a large number of matches in lights lately and so have spent a good deal of time in mechs that rely on machine guns.

As JonahGrimm points out, MGs are only really effective on unarmored sections (I’d suggest looking at my article on Damage, specifically the crit-seeking weapons section). Because of this, mechs that rely on MGs usually perform best mid-to-late match when teammates have opened up breaches in the opposing team’s armor. There are a few mechs that carry enough other weaponry to take of the armor themselves--the Nova is a good example as is the Huggin post-quirkening.

Since you are looking at how the mech performs early in the match I think armor removal is a concern. I’m not sure there is a build for a ECM Kit Fox that will do the sort of DPS you need to make use of the MGs before you are significantly damaged if you are facing a fresh opponent.

Tylerchu, on 09 November 2014 - 10:18 PM, said:

Ammo explosions do 150 dmg with a full slot. That's guaranteed to destroy at least two body parts.

Thanks. I cover the topic in greater depth on an article on Damage.

Edited by Gauvan, 10 November 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[--Saint--]

Quote

Since you are looking at how the mech performs early in the match I think armor removal is a concern. I’m not sure there is a build for a ECM Kit Fox that will do the sort of DPS you need to make use of the MGs before you are significantly damaged if you are facing a fresh opponent.

Interesting perspective Gauvan. A Kit fox variant that can strip armor fast enough in CQB could be one that puts SRM6+SPLAS, or 2x SRM6. The issue I have with SRMs is that hitting lights with them is a pain (I could use streaks but vs an ecm light, I cant get a lock fast enough and reload rate....ugh). Plus ammo limitation / vulnerability....

I will have to play the build for a while, and see how it performs. I´m pretty confident I can give a light mech a hard time and strip its armor quite quickly with 2splas, but well, it remains to be seen. I have battled fresh 6Mlas jenners using 2xMLas+2mg successfully so my hopes are high!

I´ll be extra careful to make sure my build stays out of trouble long enough for the mid game (with a sensor range of 1km+ecm I should be hard to spot and react to, especially as the PPC doesn't easily give my position away as much as a LLas would!). My problem as a pilot is my aggression, which I find hard to restrain so I tend to get stuck in early, but that's a discipline issue, not a build one.

Thanks for the ideas though! Oh and are you a supporter of being able to link UACs to fire simultaneously with a chain fire group? eg If you have 4 Mlas set to chain fire, a uac5 can be grouped to shoot with every trigger pull. Its an option I hope they set up soon as UAC2 and 5 become a real pain!

[JonahGrimm]

I'm in the minority, NightHawk, when I say I adore clan UACs. I know I am - people love that front-loaded damage, and C-UACs are a leetle more difficult to use than their IS counterparts. That said, the burst damage from a C-UAC is formidable, and a missed target at the beginning of the burst doesn't necessarially mean that you'll miss with all of the damage you're tossing downrange.

They're also really, really intimidating.

Weapon grouping, though, is an art - one that eventually will match up to your playstyle. On my side, I have a six-button mouse, and usually group like so:

MB1 - Left side of mech.
MB2 - Right side of mech.
MB3 - Long range/specialty munitions (usually missile racks, esp. LRMs, or other situational weapons)
MB4 - Secondary fire modes - e.g., 'all of my arm guns'

MB5 - Slot 1 consumable.
MB6 - Slot 2 consumable.

Now, this is always dependent on a mech. My GRF-3M has Medium Lasers on MB1, PPCs on MB3, and SRMs on MB2, and they're all on one side of the mech, really. My RVN-3L (which I run as a brawler) has ML on MB1 and SRMs on MB2 despite the fact that those weapons really don't match up to the 'sides' of the mech on which they're mounted. My JR-7k? Left ML on MB1, Right ML on MB2, LRM-5 rack on MB3.

The point is that weapon groupings make sense to me that way, even if they don't make sense to anyone else that sits down to my mechs and tries to use 'em. That's what you'll need to do: find out what works for you, and /make it work/.

My advice, therefore, is somewhat circumstantial; I prefer asymmetrical loadouts, as that lets me use the 'sides' of my mechs better - if all of my ML are on the left, for example, then I know the optimum range for that mouse button, and can use the whole side of my mech for damage-dealing... and I can sacrifice the other side of the mech if the guns there aren't useful in the current game. I like to stick to a maximum of three weapon types (note that I play light and medium mechs to the point of near exclusivity) as that makes sure I don't overload my hardpoints or my available weapon slot buttons .. or my weapon management skills. It also forces me to keep a mech to a specific role, rather than trying to stretch myself too thin across multiple roles.

Anyway - experiment. I don't find grouping UACs with Lasers wise simply because UACs require a lead, and lasers don't. That means that the gun with ammo may miss entirely at long range... and if you lead the ammo-based weapon correctly, your lasers will miss, turning them into basically a heat penalty for your ballistic weapon.

You may use them better than I do. Try it and see what happens.

[Gauvan]

Nighthawk88, on 10 November 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Thanks for the ideas though! Oh and are you a supporter of being able to link UACs to fire simultaneously with a chain fire group?

I'm on the fence on having a more complex weapon grouping capability in-game. I would certainly use it but I'm not sure how useful it is to the casual player.

That being said, the sort of thing you are talking about should be well within the capabilities of a programmable gaming mouse--I’d drop in to the hardware forum and see what recommendations you find for such a thing.

[--Saint--]

Quote

That being said, the sort of thing you are talking about should be well within the capabilities of a programmable gaming mouse--I’d drop in to the hardware forum and see what recommendations you find for such a thing

A Man with solutions! Great tip thanks

FYI I´ve played 3 matches with my "new" Kitfox. 1100 dmg, 4 kills, 1 death. They were all brawls, so early tangling was inevitable but the mech adapted well and I only died right at the end vs an incoming fresh TWolf. I had about 3 kills stolen after I´d soloed them unfortunately, but incoming lights got their armor shredded by my SPlas. MG´s definitely worth it to finish them off.

[ExoForce]

@nighthawk

With a decent team, Kitfox with pulse lasers and MGs is deadly...Lights hate that combination

Edit: I see You get that feeling also. Welcome to the club.

Edited by ExoForce, 10 November 2014 - 11:25 AM.

[--Saint--]

Quote

MB1 - Left side of mech.
MB2 - Right side of mech.
MB3 - Long range/specialty munitions (usually missile racks, esp. LRMs, or other situational weapons)
MB4 - Secondary fire modes - e.g., 'all of my arm guns'

Looks like we both use the same grouping ideas, though I only have a 4 button mouse, so consumables are keyboard bound (terrible really)

Quote

I prefer asymmetrical loadouts

Totally agree, its just the way to go, not only for more flexible weapon selection but you can also choose which arm/torso to lose, and which to keep intact as the battle goes on. On a symmetrical build you will lose 50% of your general firepower no matter what side you sacrifice, but with ours, you can choose to forgo a certain weapon platform, for example if the battle hs become brawl, I can (try to) lose my PPCs on my right more readily than my SRMs on my left

Quote

I don't find grouping UACs with Lasers wise simply because UACs require a lead, and lasers don't

Absolutely right, though it depends on how the enemy is moving. Head on and theyre in trouble. I´ve kind of accepted this as inevitable but a good trade off for rapid fire ease/simplicity. In My Direwolf (2 ER PPC, 2LPlas, 3MLas, UAC10) I pair my UAC10 to group fire with my L & M lasers and leave the top mouse button for free uac fire (for when I overheat). The damage output is just superb and I don´t need to worry about independently firing my uac. Also If I click and the group has not reloaded, thAC10 wll take a shot anyway, o t aim has not been wasted. It is in fact the primary weapon in that build.

Still, I prefer the IS version of UAC, I´m kind of proficient with PPCs so a single, fire and forget shot is more easily manageable for me. Since a simultaneous side shot of a UAC paired with lasers requires leading, I could focus on the single AC shot first and then immediately readjust the aim to maximize laser hit. With the clan AC model, the laser "waste" is huge because I´m taking more time to adjust for 3 projectile flight paths. I´m also more of an all or nothing kind of guy.

But yeah, UAC2, 5, 10 and 20, are beautiful!

Guys how on earth do I quote properly, the persons name I´m quoting doesnt show up at all.

Edited by Nighthawk88, 10 November 2014 - 02:06 PM.