54 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 17 October 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Maybe if you don't start with an insulting in your posts people will take them better?

Just a suggestion.


I asked him flat out if it's -42%.

He said yes.

So unless he's made a mistake, the OP is correct in his assumption on the Pretty Baby.

wow. I was insulting you now, too. Amazing.

[Mothykins]

Ultimatum X, on 17 October 2014 - 04:29 PM, said:

Maybe if you don't start with an insulting in your posts people will take them better?

Just a suggestion.


I asked him flat out if it's -42%.

He said yes.

So unless he's made a mistake, the OP is correct in his assumption on the Pretty Baby.

"Yes they stack up - math will become obvious especially with the range indicator when this launches" isn't him saying, "Yes, it's 42%"

You may be correct. But you might not be. The answer wasn't 100%

[Xarian]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

the 12% is from a removable module not tied to the chassis directly. If anything, it would be the last part factored, as the 50% is core locked, and once achieved, so is the fast fire skill tree.

The order that you multiply them doesn't matter. It's the same either way. This is also true using additive methods.

I suspect that +50% cooldown means a +50% to cooldown rate, meaning = -33.3% cooldown time. So if you had +50% + 12%, you'd have (1/1.62) = -38% cooldown time. And if for some reason you had a +300% cooldown rate, you'd end up with -75% cooldown time.

But we'll see after the patch hits.

[Hoax415]

The answer is 100% that they are doing additive bonuses. 50% (quirks) + 12% (module) + 5% (skill) = 67%.

That is confirmed on reddit by PGI.

That is probably a bigass mistake.

[Elizander]

Okay so Large Lasers for the PB will either have a 1 second or 1.3 second CD. I'm hoping it's the 1 second one because those two large lasers will be the equivalent of 4.5 (unmodded) large lasers in terms of DPS on a 90kph assault mech.

Edited by Elizander, 18 October 2014 - 03:44 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Even if they say that all the bonuses stack up, that's not really how people would do math. It'd be multipliers applied to multipliers.

If not, then a lot of robots will suddenly gain gatling gun levels of dakka for everything.

[Hoax415]

I told you guys, right now its additive. This is a super duper bad idea.

That means the Dragon-1N has a max 67% cooldown bonus on AC5.

That means that Dragon-1N can mount two arm AC5's that have a cooldown of .55 seconds when they stack everything.

I don't think that's really going to work.

Edited by Hoax415, 18 October 2014 - 05:29 AM.

[Tzion]

There are other checks in place though to prevent mass spray of any of these weapons. For lasers its obviously heat firing mass large lasers or even just mass lasers in general will cause the person to heat up really fast. Unless someone is going to only take 2 Large Lasers and just spam that with enough spacing to prevent over heating we hopefully won't see a mass spike of dual large laser only mechs. As far as AC they have a maximum amount of ammo they can carry. When I have run ac5s on heavies I already run dry pretty quick so this could be a problem if they only take a couple acs and then do nothing but ammo to keep their fire going. Of course that just an ammo explosion on two legs. Please, Please, Please let someone do max armor, 2 ac5s, and everything else ammo. My Jaeger will be waiting to trigger that lovely explosion of ammo

[Elizander]

Hoax415, on 18 October 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

I told you guys, right now its additive. This is a super duper bad idea.

That means the Dragon-1N has a max 67% cooldown bonus on AC5.

That means that Dragon-1N can mount two arm AC5's that have a cooldown of .55 seconds when they stack everything.

I don't think that's really going to work.

Thanks for the clarifications. And I'd rather wait and see before panicking.

The main reason why this isn't so bad is that it raises DPS but not PPA FLD because you are then forced to do a staring contest with your opponent in order to be effecting (just like clans).

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

39.6 heat dissipation every 10 seconds on a meat neutral planets. so just two large lasers are going to generate 56 heat every 10 seconds. Thereabouts. Still gonna be real hot.

Bishop, what exactly is a 'meat neutral planet'? O_o

[Elizander]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 18 October 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Bishop, what exactly is a 'meat neutral planet'? O_o

A planet that treats all meat equally and not just biased towards bacon.

[Torgun]

Elizander, on 18 October 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

A planet that treats all meat equally and not just biased towards bacon.

That sounds like an awful planet, glad I don't live there.

[EvilCow]

An already seen movie, good idea + overdone = problems.

50% of anything should not even having been considered.

[Training Instructor]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 October 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

39.6 heat dissipation every 10 seconds on a meat neutral planets. so just two large lasers are going to generate 56 heat every 10 seconds. Thereabouts. Still gonna be real hot.

And that's the problem with the current heat system. It's impossible to have anything close to heat neutral builds that involve more than one energy weapon.

[Jman5]

While I know everyone is worried about imbalance, you have to keep in mind that there will be tons of mechs with their own "imbalanced" quirks. There are plenty of games that have pretty good balance between choices because each choice is imbalanced in their own way. Add to the fact that the most powerful quirks are generally going on mechs that are weakest, I think we should wait and see.

An Awesome might have great DPS now, but it's still an Awesome. It still has a great big barn-door geometry and no jumpjets.

[Mavairo]

Bigbacon, on 17 October 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

thats not OP.......

no quirk should be giving 50% to anything....even 25% is pushing it.

(unless locusts get a 50% heat reduction on medium lasers and a 50% CD bonus)

You underestimate just how bad the AWS currently is

[Mavairo]

Hoax415, on 18 October 2014 - 05:13 AM, said:

I told you guys, right now its additive. This is a super duper bad idea.

That means the Dragon-1N has a max 67% cooldown bonus on AC5.

That means that Dragon-1N can mount two arm AC5's that have a cooldown of .55 seconds when they stack everything.

I don't think that's really going to work.

Not exactly afraid a mech that will be armed with 2 ML and 2 AC5s..no matter how rapid fire they are. Sorry. Especially when said mech has a CT the size of alaska, and only a 60 ton chassis

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Mavairo, on 18 October 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

You underestimate just how bad the AWS currently is

It's bad for the tonnage but a wise investment for knocking down NARCs.

[EvilCow]

Mavairo, on 18 October 2014 - 08:45 AM, said:

Not exactly afraid a mech that will be armed with 2 ML and 2 AC5s..no matter how rapid fire they are. Sorry. Especially when said mech has a CT the size of alaska, and only a 60 ton chassis

Not afraid of something with the DPS of 5-6 regular AC5? It is a much like a direwolf in a smaller package and faster or like a 3UAC5 ilya that never jams.

I guess it is fine.

[Mavairo]

EvilCow, on 18 October 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Not afraid of something with the DPS of 5-6 regular AC5? It is a much like a direwolf in a smaller package and faster or like a 3UAC5 ilya that never jams.

I guess it is fine.

The problem is, the Dragon isn't a front line mech. It can't use the sustained fire to full effect like a DW or Ilya. It's a death sentence to be exposed for more than a few moments at a time in a Dragon. You get maybe 2 alphas before you should start considering your retreat. That might be good for 5 shots tops with the 2AC5s with that kind of cool down. A Timby can track it down and obliterate it in short order since it WILL be just as fast and carrying much heavier armament, and armor. A Mad Dog can do a 100+alpha, which wouldn't be good for the Dragon either. The arms on a DRG are also heinously vulnerable and easy to pop off. It's interesting that they went with AC5 perks on the 1N instead of focusing on the fact that it has 2 Crotch Rockets.