83 replies to this topic

[Mr Beefy]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

The modes are boring, flat and unimaginative. It has nothing to do with rewards.

Take rewards out of the equation for a second.

Is it FUN to go stand on some little square? Is it fun to stand on 1-5 little squares? Is it fun knowing the squares are exactly in the same place every time?

Nope.

Wouldn't you rather have a huge city map created specifically for an Escort style mode? And maybe depending on what kind of movements the attackers make, it could influence the route that the caravan takes?

How about a Base attack mode (thankfully they are coming out with this, but I have reservations), where you have a big map, lets say a huge redwood forest. And your lances drop in random locations. With randomly spawned secondary objectives, like an ammo dump which gives you an extra 25% ammo if you take it. Or a VTOL site, that pops 3 UAVs to give you information on certain areas of the map.

How about a King of the Hill Mode, say a VTOL carrying some sort of new weapon plans crashes in a jungle. And it's randomly placed, with lances randomly spawning depending. And you need to find and hold the site while your techs extract the information.

I mean there is just SO much we could have done.

These are all great Ideas, hopefully with the release of CW coming PGI will really think long and hard about the depth of this game and what it could be. I am all for them making this into the game I think many would like to see, one with depth and detail. I agree with many that a little square with laser ropes and a truck or drilling rig in it and having to stand there for 3 min. to cap it sucks after the first 100 times of doing it....hell maybe after the 5th time. All of these things need to be looked at, and improved or changed completely. I love some of the other Ideas about factories, drop ships, palaces, etc. etc. that could be worked into the game, adding much needed depth.

None of these reasons, as legit as they are can justify for the love of god, WHY many choose to not check off the boxes of game modes they don't want to try to complete the primary objectives set forth for the match mode they checked or didn't check. Then you have the tools that go a step further with it, and go out of their way to make sure their team doesn't obtain the primary objective and go for the secondary one.

It will be interesting to see when CW comes out, and if PGI puts out a grand slam with real content in it, if all these players that act this way now will GTFU and start really trying to not take their teams choice away.... and really try their best to accomplish the primary goals set forth by the match mode and rules with in a given drop or mission instead of just using the BS excuse, "kill em all" is the best method for our K/D ration and C-bill earnings. I am just as skeptical of them changing their habits as most likely they are that PGI will really make CW great.

Both parties have control of what they do or don't do regarding this, maybe we as a player base should step up and start doing things a bit better. Seems like PGI has the hardest job of us all to do here, our job should be easy if we love BT they way many say they do. If we drop the BS excuses, and voice our opinions while trying to be constructive, maybe just maybe things will really start rolling....A bad ass BT game, CW, Larger player base, new players that stay instead of playing for a month and seeing the BS and all the Irony and cry babies that do the very same thing they cried so hard about.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I have tried being constructive, but even with this added level of communication I feel like PGI is still putting their resources in the wrong spots.

It's all about the mechs, all day, every day. Everything PGI does is centered around mechs.

And while I LOVE mechs, it's not enough to keep me playing.

We need some depth. I need a reason to choose a particular mech type and level/skill it up so that people know I took the time to be some kind of amazing Awesome or Dragon or whatever Pilot.

I need a reason to choose something besides firepower, I need it to be important that I can transverse a big map to scout, or get to a dynamic objective that spawned away from where it was on the last match.

There needs to be a LOT more maps, there should already be 10 more generic TDM maps, and we should have 5 or 6 mode specific maps for real modes, not the stuff we have now.

There is so much to fix and a lot of us have expended so much energy trying to get it fixed. And yet in the end the focus of PGI always turns back to mechs.

[Mr Beefy]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 October 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

I have tried being constructive, but even with this added level of communication I feel like PGI is still putting their resources in the wrong spots.

It's all about the mechs, all day, every day. Everything PGI does is centered around mechs.

And while I LOVE mechs, it's not enough to keep me playing.

We need some depth. I need a reason to choose a particular mech type and level/skill it up so that people know I took the time to be some kind of amazing Awesome or Dragon or whatever Pilot.

I need a reason to choose something besides firepower, I need it to be important that I can transverse a big map to scout, or get to a dynamic objective that spawned away from where it was on the last match.

There needs to be a LOT more maps, there should already be 10 more generic TDM maps, and we should have 5 or 6 mode specific maps for real modes, not the stuff we have now.

There is so much to fix and a lot of us have expended so much energy trying to get it fixed. And yet in the end the focus of PGI always turns back to mechs.

I agree with you 100%, and I am also begging for the reason to want to spend more money on this game. Hopefully, things will start heading in the right direction. IMO, the only way for anything to change is constructive communication by both parties, us as the player base, and PGI as the game developer. Another way to add or forcing the change is by the amount of cash that flows from our wallets to PGI. There was a time, not sure if its still this way or not for some players, but a new mech would come out... the new shiny Item this month, and you would see someone post, "shut up and take my money PGI" and when a player base feels the game is stale, and not going anywhere or core features not being in game yet, it makes one want to vomit.

Looking at what has happened this weekend though, there are problems with the some of the player bases concept on what this game is, and in truth, the why, the choice the players are making it be this way. Like I said, here we just had the vote for changing the MM. The nays lost the vote, many reason's were given as to why, complaints that it wasn't advertised enough, people claiming that PGI took away their choice, and it wasn't right/fair, they wouldn't stand for it. Many players started rage quitting, I kid you not, I play a lot and some matches we would see 4 players right out the gate drop on conquest mode. I would even start the chat off at the start of the match, claiming I would rage quit, this was BS, bla bla bla acting like I am kid and didn't get my way, and many times you would see two of red team drop out as soon as I typed it, lol.

So here we are now, PGI, trying to reach out to the community, holds a new vote on the MM change, they try to get the word out....everyone's posting it on forums, talking about it in game.... and the yeas win once again. Not by much, but it still was a win for keeping the change for what.... a week or so just to see how it works out, if MM issues get better or they don't. PGI rolls it back with in what, 2 days because they felt that we are to split on the topic to keep it in place. That's fine with me, I really don't care either way. I voted yes, but it really doesn't matter to me, because as a gamer, I will pretty much play any mode they throw at me. I will also try my best to play that match mode or mission, to maximize all objectives, but the primary is always the one I will try to shoot for. Here we have three game modes, each with different primary objectives, and two of them having the same secondary objectives, KILL the other team. Pretty simple to follow right? For these tools playing in the event this weekend....WRONG!

They get their choice of match mode back, the ones that cried the hardest are the ones that are now willing to take our choice away in a given match mode because they feel special enough to make up their own primary objectives, even in a match mode that does not reward their style of play as well for their team, and the player base. All they need to do is tick the little boxes of match modes they want to play, that gives them and teammates the best rewards they can get if they complete the primary objective. Simple right? Wrong!

PGI has to have all the numbers on this, the most vocal about the change back, the guys who made threats they would drop out every conquest they got put in, the ones that really did it every time, and the numbers from this weekend..... details that would show one very real fact. You guys can't be pleased, and since you can't, you go out of your way to make it a death match, then claim this is just a death match and all PGI's fault. The truth is, by the actions based off these type of players, you are the problem. Why are you even playing the game??? oh that's right, tell us again, its a death match and give us all the reasons why you behave this way in a game mode you shouldn't be dropping into in the first place if you won't work as a team to obtain the primary objective if able to do so.

[nitra]

Objectives , there is only one objective.

That is to kill all the enemy mechs.

this precludes base camping capping or any kind of base tomfoolery just kill the enemy team and be done with it "GG" onto the next match .

also about that conquest mode same thing kill the freaking enemy team no ring around the rosie follow the train bull malarky just get out there and kill the enemy team .

and ill even indulge you as to why ....

Because the quicker you kill the team and get to the next match the more potential you have for making points
more games = more points its that simple.

those who power down and hide so they can allow for "max points" is just allowing for less games to be played which = less points.

those who "strategically hide" cause fewer games .


it is these players keeping you from the holy 450,000...

so blame those. not the others who are out there working their rears off getting the most games they can in a day. and in reality more points for that challenge that so many hold so dear.

Edited by nitra, 20 October 2014 - 09:34 AM.

[gregsolidus]

We need a multi tiered objective based mode ala Quake Wars.

Edited by gregsolidus, 20 October 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Killstorm999999]

nitra, on 20 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Objectives , there is only one objective.

That is to kill all the enemy mechs.

this precludes base camping capping or any kind of base tomfoolery just kill the enemy team and be done with it "GG" onto the next match .

also about that conquest mode same thing kill the freaking enemy team no ring around the rosie follow the train bull malarky just get out there and kill the enemy team .

and ill even indulge you as to why ....

Because the quicker you kill the team and get to the next match the more potential you have for making points
more games = more points its that simple.

those who power down and hide so they can allow for "max points" is just allowing for less games to be played which = less points.

those who "strategically hide" cause fewer games .


it is these players keeping you from the holy 450,000...

so blame those. not the others who are out there working their rears off getting the most games they can in a day. and in reality more points for that challenge that so many hold so dear.

Truth.

[Mr Beefy]

nitra, on 20 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Objectives , there is only one objective.

That is to kill all the enemy mechs.

this precludes base camping capping or any kind of base tomfoolery just kill the enemy team and be done with it "GG" onto the next match .

also about that conquest mode same thing kill the freaking enemy team no ring around the rosie follow the train bull malarky just get out their and kill the enemy team .

and ill even indulge you as to why ....

Because the quicker you kill the team and get to the next match the more potential you have for making points
more games = more points its that simple.

those who power down and hide so they can allow for "max points" is just allowing for less games to be played which = less points.

those who "strategically hide" cause fewer games .


it is these players keeping you from the holy 450,000...

so blame those. not the others who are out there working their rears off getting the most games they can in a day. and in reality more points for that challenge that so many hold so dear.

In Conquest mode you have a point, In Assault mode you are mistaken, I have partook in several Assault modes in which we took the enemies base in under 6 mins. These where pug drops, not groups and our team worked together to get the 20 points and as stated before, IT IS THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE FOR ASSAULT MODE, secondary is kill them all for 10 points.

Once again your last point is completely MUTE. In reality, if those others you speak of was out working their rears off getting the most points for us, they would be unchecking two of the three modes so they could bash it up and get 15 points per match, instead of only 10. In fact, they are making our points at least 30-50% worse, because in conquest mode, many players do in fact split up to a point, and try to cap which draws the conflict out longer. So why are these hard working pilots dropping in these match modes that earn them, us less points again? And but wait, before you come back with a answer that does not make any sense to justify this further, what about the games we have a assault on the base in the bag, base is capped in 30-60 seconds, around 9 mins into the match, with two teammates who picked the wrong game mode and made it a point to chase the last enemy light for two minutes and kill him so we only got 10 points? Several teammates asked him not to kill it, we had the 20 points....as he killed it and typed "lol" was he slaving away to help all of us out too?

If you think this post is really about us getting the 450000 to me, you are wrong. This has to do with the cry babies in this player base who no matter what is done for them, they still cry, claim this is just a first person death match shooter game, and yet the very thing they say they hate about it, they are making it that way on purpose every single game they drop.

It puts a drain on the player base, and I am pretty sure it has to put a drain on the Development of this game also, which just sucks!

Edited by Mr Beefy, 20 October 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[nitra]

All i know is, that i was in a game we got stomped last remaining player on our team chose to hide his reason ...

"so the enemy team can score more points for the event" where if he would have went out and fought we could have started a whole nother match and be halfway through it by the time the enemy team capped.

his actions just further incite my disgust at the segment of player who choose to do this kind of stuff .

they act like we have some game changing "objective" to accomplish so they end up doing things like hiding or shutting down in dark corners .

There is no real objectives in this game there is no tangible reward for base capping or resource collecting .

the only tangible reward in this game is killing all the enemy mechs as quickly as possible so that you can rinse repeat do it again so on etc.....

until we actually have a tangible reason for base capping collecting resources the current gameplay is not going to change .

and i dont see that as the playerbase fault.

we will see when CW goes live if there is something worth fighting for .

but as it stands at this moment, less we have some tangible reward to look forward to its going to be the same thing .

go out kill grind cbills buy more gear.

what else is there to do?

Edited by nitra, 20 October 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[Magna Canus]

Meeting match objectives over the weekend will drive down the MC and C-Bill price of the Stormcrow and Shadowhawk chassis' as well as Mechbays.

Mmmm, more mech bays, nah, don't need any more.
Mmmm, shadowhawk, have it.
Mmmm, Stormcrow... nah, I play IS in CW, so why get a clan mech?
Mmmm, play skermish all the time so people can try to cap bases for miniscule ingame rewards and an extra 10 points towards a sale? Nah, not a skermish kind of guy.

Play conquest, still need damage/kills/assists to make money for stuff I do want.
Play assault, still need damage/kills/assists to make money for stuff I do want.
Try to go for the "primeary objective" when it is a low risk proposition? Yeah sure, don't need to be a 8==D about people wanting the sale, but sure as hell will not go out of my way to make it happen either.

OP, if you want 11 other people to do what you want them to, take charge, be nice and all that. Otherwise, tough luck, QQ somewhere else. Damage/kills/assists are where the C-bills are dude. That final kill nets everybody that hit him a nice juicy assist and everybody shares the C-bill love.

When PGI makes taking the base worth the same or more than tearing up the other team, THEN you will see people go for it.

[Mr Beefy]

Nitra,

I guess for starters make sure if you are a pilot that has not desire to try as a team for the primary objective of Assault and Conquest game mode, uncheck the boxes. As for the runner that went and hid and shut down, we get those types even with out the event. He is no better in my eyes as the guys that come into the wrong game mode when they got their choice back, and kill the last enemy mech after chasing it for two minutes when we have the base capped. Like many reasons given, just a BS excuse by him. I guess one way to speed up finding a runner/shutdown mech would be everyone equip up BAP, it helps.

Yes I agree, the grind is pretty ruff, and seems really its all there is to do and has been this way a long time. I see things differently regarding the problem not being the players base problem. Our actions in game, each one of us are in fact controlled by us, the good ones and the bad. Bad team play, choices, actions of pilots if bad should not be passed off just because of a bad grind or lack of rewards.

Are you trying to say when CW is out, and if it has real content and rewards to it, at the drop of a dime all these pilots that are "kill them all" and not checking off match modes they shouldn't be dropping just change their play style just like that? Magically they become team players and will focus on primary goals? This almost sounds like a, We will show you PGI thing, kinda like all the guys that dropped out of matches they didn't like when MM was changed the first time.

[Mr Beefy]

Magnakanus, on 20 October 2014 - 12:11 PM, said:

Meeting match objectives over the weekend will drive down the MC and C-Bill price of the Stormcrow and Shadowhawk chassis' as well as Mechbays.

Mmmm, more mech bays, nah, don't need any more.
Mmmm, shadowhawk, have it.
Mmmm, Stormcrow... nah, I play IS in CW, so why get a clan mech?
Mmmm, play skermish all the time so people can try to cap bases for miniscule ingame rewards and an extra 10 points towards a sale? Nah, not a skermish kind of guy.

Play conquest, still need damage/kills/assists to make money for stuff I do want.
Play assault, still need damage/kills/assists to make money for stuff I do want.
Try to go for the "primeary objective" when it is a low risk proposition? Yeah sure, don't need to be a 8==D about people wanting the sale, but sure as hell will not go out of my way to make it happen either.

OP, if you want 11 other people to do what you want them to, take charge, be nice and all that. Otherwise, tough luck, QQ somewhere else. Damage/kills/assists are where the C-bills are dude. That final kill nets everybody that hit him a nice juicy assist and everybody shares the C-bill love.

When PGI makes taking the base worth the same or more than tearing up the other team, THEN you will see people go for it.

You don't sound like the type of player(s) I am talking about here. I am talking about players that drop in Conquest or Assault mode, the majority of the team takes the base, and two of the guys are like F- your team play, and kill the last mech so your team doesn't get the rewards. I think I made that pretty clear. Do you not see the difference and the problem with this?

[Magna Canus]

Mr Beefy, on 20 October 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

You don't sound like the type of player(s) I am talking about here. I am talking about players that drop in Conquest or Assault mode, the majority of the team takes the base, and two of the guys are like F- your team play, and kill the last mech so your team doesn't get the rewards. I think I made that pretty clear. Do you not see the difference and the problem with this?

Yes, I do get what you are saying. Unless you are dropping with your unit in a 12 don't expect people to do what you want or even what the rest of the team wants. That is the way it is, suck it up and move on. If you cant get 20 out of a game and are gunning for points then maybe you should go for the garanteed 15 in skermish yourself then. Win or loose, same result.

Me, sure, I'll work with the group in they want to go for the base cap, but your goals are not everybodies goals. You got guys out there TKing for fun and all kinds of crazy stuff. $hit happens.

[nitra]

Mr Beefy, on 20 October 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Nitra,

I guess for starters make sure if you are a pilot that has not desire to try as a team for the primary objective of Assault and Conquest game mode, uncheck the boxes. As for the runner that went and hid and shut down, we get those types even with out the event. He is no better in my eyes as the guys that come into the wrong game mode when they got their choice back, and kill the last enemy mech after chasing it for two minutes when we have the base capped. Like many reasons given, just a BS excuse by him. I guess one way to speed up finding a runner/shutdown mech would be everyone equip up BAP, it helps.

Yes I agree, the grind is pretty ruff, and seems really its all there is to do and has been this way a long time. I see things differently regarding the problem not being the players base problem. Our actions in game, each one of us are in fact controlled by us, the good ones and the bad. Bad team play, choices, actions of pilots if bad should not be passed off just because of a bad grind or lack of rewards.

Are you trying to say when CW is out, and if it has real content and rewards to it, at the drop of a dime all these pilots that are "kill them all" and not checking off match modes they shouldn't be dropping just change their play style just like that? Magically they become team players and will focus on primary goals? This almost sounds like a, We will show you PGI thing, kinda like all the guys that dropped out of matches they didn't like when MM was changed the first time.

i play all the game modes , reason . more games for me !! selfish that way . now whether i play team player or not is another, selfish if i feel l ike it . every now and then ill play the good scout other times ill leeeeeroy jenkins it depends on the mech im piloting and whether my team is where i think they should be by the time i get to what i consider my starting point. like i said selfish ..

anyways whether cw will change the play style will be determined on what the player base gets out of it ..

If loyalty points are dived out the same way cbills are ala kills assist and destruction then we wont see much of a change .

now if they are doled out for completing objectives then just maybe we will see players doing things that help the team accomplish those objectives.

but it all depends on how cw is orchestrated.

because honestly how can you blame players for doing what benefits them ?

and i want to elobrate on this .

there is a game called robocraft they just recently released a new weapon that heals the in game units ( NO i do not want healing in this game)

this weapon changed the entire game flow .

Used to it was pretty much mech warrior online, go out be a murder ball kill the enemy get (their equivalent of cbills)

with this new weapon the game changed dramatically the game slowed down there was healing units and you got people running back and forth engaging in fire fights and then going back for repair .

reason being is because healers got the (cbills) for the heals just as if they were out there duking it out .

Just an example of how players will change their game play style if it benefits them.

[Mr Beefy]

Magnakanus, on 20 October 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Yes, I do get what you are saying. Unless you are dropping with your unit in a 12 don't expect people to do what you want or even what the rest of the team wants. That is the way it is, suck it up and move on. If you cant get 20 out of a game and are gunning for points then maybe you should go for the garanteed 15 in skermish yourself then. Win or loose, same result.

Me, sure, I'll work with the group in they want to go for the base cap, but your goals are not everybodies goals. You got guys out there TKing for fun and all kinds of crazy stuff. $hit happens.

Yes, $hit does happen out on the battle field, but shouldn't we be held accountable for cleaning up our own $hit instead of making every excuse in the book, and bottom line blaming PGI for our own $hit? Many in this player base hold them accountable for all bad, have they not tried to turn a new leaf as of late? If someone doesn't bring up what they are coming across in games regarding the pilots not even trying to go for the primary objectives...ensuring a death match, new players will think this $hit flies here and pretty much fade away. After all who wants to deal or clean up others $hit if we won't take care of our own?

[Killstorm999999]

Mr Beefy, on 20 October 2014 - 12:19 PM, said:

You don't sound like the type of player(s) I am talking about here. I am talking about players that drop in Conquest or Assault mode, the majority of the team takes the base, and two of the guys are like F- your team play, and kill the last mech so your team doesn't get the rewards. I think I made that pretty clear. Do you not see the difference and the problem with this?

The problem is that killing the last mech stops the game. I know this game isn't suppose to be 100% realistic, but it is completely daft to think that there would a tactical situation where killing the last crippled enemy mech is better then letting it live, especially since letting the mech live would have no bearing on completing the objective (I could imagine letting the mech live so it can call in for reinforcements, and then doing an ambush, but that is not the case in Assault or Conquest).

This is the core flaw of Conquest and Assault: Killing the enemy team prevents you from completing the Objective. This means adding more rewards to the objective puts you into a counter-intuitive situation of not wanting to kill the enemy. And we certainly do not want to give an award for letting the enemy live, which is similarly unrealistic (even more so then giant walking robots)

The only solution I see is for the primary objective of all games modes to be the elimination of the enemy team. Then, make it so that holding the objectives provides you with a large advantage that will make that primary objective easier. For example, holding locations in Conquest could give you radar coverage of the surrounding area, or perhaps turrets are set up to provide you with a defensive position in the middle of the map.

[Mr Beefy]

because honestly how can you blame players for doing what benefits them ?

I don't, unless it is in the manner I already explained above, in which case I do blame them and so do some others who don't choose to go out of their ways to screw there teammates over. Sure it happens from time to time, but it should not be the norm in a healthy player base, this weekend it felt like the norm and not just to me. Pretty simple concept, team play.

Edited by Mr Beefy, 20 October 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[Farix]

nitra, on 20 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

<much nonsense that everything should be Skirmish>

If you don't want to "wait around" while your teammates go for the primary objectives, why the hell are you even playing those particular modes in the first place? By complaining that players are playing Assault and Conquest modes as Assault and Conquests instead of Skirmish, then it is you who is the problem for not playing exclusively in Skirmish mode.

Edited by Farix, 20 October 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[RalphVargr]

The great unwritten advantage of team play is that it gives you someone else to blame....

[elismallz]

Mister D, on 17 October 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

"HIT THE GAS, AND KICK SOME ASS!"

I am gonna use the crap out of this little gem.

[Mr Beefy]

RalphVargr, on 20 October 2014 - 01:36 PM, said:

The great unwritten advantage of team play is that it gives you someone else to blame....

Given the content of the topic and whats been explained, how does this remark apply?