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Ac10 Vs Gauss On Med. Mechs


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#21 Ruccus

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 10:57 AM

Both the AC10 and Gauss Rifle are valid main weapons for a medium mech; in my BJ-1 and Arrow I consider both to be useable builds that can net me some good games.

They are used in different ways though, so if you're more comfortable standing back and dealing damage from a distance then switching to secondary weaponry to scare off lights that come to swarm then go with the Gauss. If you'd rather have an AC10 as a main weapon that can dish out 10 damage every 2.5 seconds plus secondary weaponry that can augment that damage, you're generally closer to the fight and also actively adding your damage to your heavier mech teammates while guarding those heavier mechs from enemy light mech.

#22 TygerLily

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 11:04 AM

The only Mech I really loved the AC/10 on was the K2. It seemed like the recycle time was perfect for firing, twisting away, and requiring.

#23 TripleEhBeef

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 01:25 PM

I decided to swap the AC20 in my HBK 4H for a Gauss. While I lose a little bit of close range power, I pick up a whole lot more in range. If I spot a mech with an open component halfway across the map, I can quickly line up and take the shot.

It all depends on what you're speccing your mech for. An AC10 with a bunch of SRMs makes a pretty devastating close to medium range combo.

#24 Takashi Uchida

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:20 PM

My bad on the Cent, I guess it's been a while lol

#25 Flak Kannon

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 02:32 PM

I depends on how you like to play your mediums...

If you want to hover outside the assaults, using them as shields, the Gauss wins hands down..I generally go XL engine with a Guass and ERLL on that type build.. maybe Guass and LRM 5 or two if not ERLL.

If you like to swoop into the fray, fast and hard, torso twisting and brawling, then a heat efficient AC10, medium laser, SRM build wins. You usually want a STD for that.

Comes down to play style.

#26 mogs01gt

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Posted 21 October 2014 - 06:43 PM

View PostFlak Kannon, on 21 October 2014 - 02:32 PM, said:

If you like to swoop into the fray, fast and hard, torso twisting and brawling, then a heat efficient AC10, medium laser, SRM build wins. You usually want a STD for that.

IMO that is the wrong way to play and look at medium mechs.

#27 Dagon Zur

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:40 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 21 October 2014 - 06:43 PM, said:

IMO that is the wrong way to play and look at medium mechs.


... enlighten us. Explain the right way to play and look at medium mechs, please!!

#28 mogs01gt

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 10:06 AM

View PostDagon Zur, on 24 October 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

... enlighten us. Explain the right way to play and look at medium mechs, please!!

Why would you want to brawl in a mech that is under-armored, under-gunned and roughly the same size/speed as some Heavies? Only Cents can truly brawl and they are still under-gunned. You want to be skirmishing and flanking your opponents staying around 300-500m away from them.

#29 Flak Kannon

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 03:14 PM

View Postmogs01gt, on 24 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Why would you want to brawl in a mech that is under-armored, under-gunned and roughly the same size/speed as some Heavies? Only Cents can truly brawl and they are still under-gunned. You want to be skirmishing and flanking your opponents staying around 300-500m away from them.



I respect that assessment. I guess I should have prefaced... swoop in on targets of opportunity. I would NEVER advise being FIRST CONTACT in a Medium mech. But one the Assaults and Heavys are mixing it up at 300 meters or less... I mean that's the time to move your sturdy, hard hitting Medium into the fray.

I have learned how to best use the mediums to 'my play style'.. that's why I offered up several strategies.

I do very, very well in mediums. But I had to learn how to best survive the first 5 minutes.... and that is by NOT swooping in early and have concentrated, focused fire on me and me alone.


I personally do not enjoy the ERLL Gauss medium mech as much as I enjoy the SRM, ML, AC5 or AC10 medium mech.

Its all about how you best enjoy playing the medium mech chassis.




I think that the medium is very versatile. Played in multiple ways it can do multiple jobs.

#30 Dagon Zur

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 03:56 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 24 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

Why would you want to brawl in a mech that is under-armored, under-gunned and roughly the same size/speed as some Heavies? Only Cents can truly brawl and they are still under-gunned. You want to be skirmishing and flanking your opponents staying around 300-500m away from them.


Then you are talking about skirmishers/flankers, not brawlers. Think Jenner, Cicada or XL equipped medium. Any mobile mech can flank and do hit-and-run...

..brawling in a medium does not mean "first contact" and suicide in 10 seconds. You should choose carefully when and what to engage and go brawl with other brawlers, not alone, unless you have opportunity for 1vs1.
A medium brawler can also disengage more easiliy than a heavy or assault, and with a STD engine it can tank more damage than a XL-Heavy mech, or even XL-Victor....if you use your shield side properly.
Shadowhawk ,Cent, Hunchback, Griffin, Wolverine even Vindicator or Treb can all do it quite well with the right setup...

..at 300-500 m you cant use SRMs. Do you mean mediums should never equip SRMs or Ac20 ? Should all mediums just use AC5/GAUSS and plink from distance? Is that the WAY to use them properly?

Im curious, how many matches in medium class mogs?

Edited by Dagon Zur, 25 October 2014 - 05:02 AM.


#31 Poptimus Rhyme Wallace

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:26 AM

Just a point i find valid to bring up on the Gauss here, the damage it causes to internals is only 20 hp worth.
The HBK4G has 24 HP in the shoulder, if your gauss gets critted out before you take real damage in that torso, you do not loose your torso and you do not die.
SHD have 26 hp internal structure on ST so you can mount a guass with the XL without having to panic, just dont get hit too much.

That being said I would also argue in favor of the AC10 over the Gauss Rifle for mediums, but depending on what other hardpoints I would say the UAC5 is the far better gun, not only does it generate considerable shake when fired rapidly, it is also cooler running, lighter, longer range, faster projectiles, as well as affording 20% longer engagement times due to the time it will take to empty the ammo bins, more damage pr. ton of ammo, more damage pr. ton of weapon cost, all at the cost of a sligthly lower DPS.

#32 mogs01gt

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Posted 27 October 2014 - 05:40 AM

View PostPoptimus Rhyme, on 25 October 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

Just a point i find valid to bring up on the Gauss here, the damage it causes to internals is only 20 hp worth.
The HBK4G has 24 HP in the shoulder, if your gauss gets critted out before you take real damage in that torso, you do not loose your torso and you do not die.
SHD have 26 hp internal structure on ST so you can mount a guass with the XL without having to panic, just dont get hit too much.That being said I would also argue in favor of the AC10 over the Gauss Rifle for mediums, but depending on what other hardpoints I would say the UAC5 is the far better gun, not only does it generate considerable shake when fired rapidly, it is also cooler running, lighter, longer range, faster projectiles, as well as affording 20% longer engagement times due to the time it will take to empty the ammo bins, more damage pr. ton of ammo, more damage pr. ton of weapon cost, all at the cost of a sligthly lower DPS.

I agree! I've been using nothing but the UAC lately and find it way better than the Gauss and Ac10. The down side is getting that kill shot on a red CT when you need it.

View PostDagon Zur, on 25 October 2014 - 03:56 AM, said:


Then you are talking about skirmishers/flankers, not brawlers. Think Jenner, Cicada or XL equipped medium. Any mobile mech can flank and do hit-and-run...

..brawling in a medium does not mean "first contact" and suicide in 10 seconds. You should choose carefully when and what to engage and go brawl with other brawlers, not alone, unless you have opportunity for 1vs1.
A medium brawler can also disengage more easiliy than a heavy or assault, and with a STD engine it can tank more damage than a XL-Heavy mech, or even XL-Victor....if you use your shield side properly.
Shadowhawk ,Cent, Hunchback, Griffin, Wolverine even Vindicator or Treb can all do it quite well with the right setup...

..at 300-500 m you cant use SRMs. Do you mean mediums should never equip SRMs or Ac20 ? Should all mediums just use AC5/GAUSS and plink from distance? Is that the WAY to use them properly?

Im curious, how many matches in medium class mogs?

you put a STD in your Med and now you are under-gunned(just like I already said). I do not want to make this an SRM discussion but with the high alpha builds on Clan mechs, SRMs are risky now since you are exposing your entire mech to cause damage. Mediums shouldnt equip an Ac20, its a waste of space and tonnage since your DPS and ammo supply is low.

I pilot nothing but mediums. Have cicadas, hunchies, cents, hawks and griffons mastered.

#33 Rando Slim

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 03:29 AM

In general........yea I dunno I like both weapons (and I play a LOT of mediums Shads, Trebs, Cents, Cicadas, BJs, Novas, Stormcrow, Wolverines and just got Vindicators) but not necessarily on mediums at all. Fist off, you cant use really anything above an AC/2 with a standard engine and still get half decent backup weapons AND the necessary speed to survive as a medium. So right off your gonna have to use an XL engine. Alright now lets see really the Gauss in my experience works best on the Blackjack because of that wonderful high arm mount for it. You can still get 3 medium lasers on it as well, I prefer this build over the Boomjack (with the AC/20) because BJs are just way too squishy to spending any appreciable amount of time that close to anyone with a red Dorito over their head.

My favorite medium build involving an AC/10 is actually a treb 7k with 2 er large lasers and an AC/10. Its not the typical pairing, but trust me it works, you could do this build on a Shadowhawk as well. Nowadays the typical pairing with an AC/10 is actually the PPCs because the projectile speed is similar, but in the end my only concern is keeping my weapon groups and my design philosophy fairly simple, and using mechs with preferable hardpoint locations. Like for me I don't really care between Gauss and AC/10. I like both, they both have totally shite tonnage/damage ratios, decent dps, and frankly hitting things doesn't factor for me as I usually engage targets only at ranges where I know I will hit them for full damage. I don't waste ballistic shots on light mechs or things far away and for that matter I scrimp on ammo as well, two tons per any given gun works for me because Im just naturally selective with them.

Right well anyway if you want an easy answer I'd say from my experience: Don't bother using either with a standard engine, Gauss goes well on a mech with a higher mount in the torso like a blackjack or a shadowhawk, AC/10 goes best on an arm. Though me personally I still like an AC/10 in the torso (like my Treb 7k) because I don't like having my heaviest and strongest weapon located in one of my least armored components. I will also agree that actually an LB-10 is a good weapon for a medium because of its crit-seeking and its a ton lighter. It really sounds to me like the OP needs to wait till the quirk pass is done in a week or two and go and buy him/her self a set of Dragons. Don't laugh, if they give them the same kind of arbitrary super buff like the Awesome......watch out. Theres all kinds of fun things you can do with Dragons but hey are super gimped with that obnoxious CT. 2 PPCs and an AC/10 is a poor mans version of dual gauss, except you are WAY faster. UAC/5, AC/5 and 3 mediums is badass, Gauss and 2 ER large, 2 large, 2 medium, and a UAC/5 are all really fun builds. plus you move as fast as any medium AND you have more armor on your precious arms.

Edited by Scrotacus 42, 28 October 2014 - 03:30 AM.


#34 mogs01gt

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 05:56 AM

View PostScrotacus 42, on 28 October 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

Right well anyway if you want an easy answer I'd say from my experience: Don't bother using either with a standard engine, Gauss goes well on a mech with a higher mount in the torso like a blackjack or a shadowhawk, AC/10 goes best on an arm. Though me personally I still like an AC/10 in the torso (like my Treb 7k) because I don't like having my heaviest and strongest weapon located in one of my least armored components. I will also agree that actually an LB-10 is a good weapon for a medium because of its crit-seeking and its a ton lighter. It really sounds to me like the OP needs to wait till the quirk pass is done in a week or two and go and buy him/her self a set of Dragons. Don't laugh, if they give them the same kind of arbitrary super buff like the Awesome......watch out. Theres all kinds of fun things you can do with Dragons but hey are super gimped with that obnoxious CT. 2 PPCs and an AC/10 is a poor mans version of dual gauss, except you are WAY faster. UAC/5, AC/5 and 3 mediums is badass, Gauss and 2 ER large, 2 large, 2 medium, and a UAC/5 are all really fun builds. plus you move as fast as any medium AND you have more armor on your precious arms.

Are you reading my mind? Cause I was just thinking to myself, "I should pick up a Dragon!". I've been running my AH with an AC10 and i've liked it in the arm. I hate ballistics mounted in the torso!

I've switched to using the AC10 more lately, with the lighter weight and more ammo, it beats the Gauss on a Med. IMO.

Edited by mogs01gt, 28 October 2014 - 05:59 AM.


#35 jper4

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 08:52 AM

i prefer the ac10 to a guass in mediums because when you're a medium an ac 10 does decent damage but with only one it's not looked at as a "gotta kill this guy fast" deal by the person being shot at it while the gauss has more of an "AAAAAAAAH! GAAAAAAAUSSSS! KILL IT NOW!" reaction. as a medium pilot the first reaction is the one you should be trying for.

:)

#36 Sam Slade

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 09:53 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 24 October 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:


Why would you want to brawl in a mech that is under-armored, under-gunned and roughly the same size/speed as some Heavies? Only Cents can truly brawl and they are still under-gunned. You want to be skirmishing and flanking your opponents staying around 300-500m away from them.


Because Hunchback eats your face!

Also, PPC beats AC10 hands down on a medium mech... Wolverine builds are a good example of this...if the 90m min range is bothering you in a medium then you're out of position.


Edited by Sam Slade, 28 October 2014 - 09:59 AM.


#37 C E Dwyer

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 10:09 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 20 October 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

The issue isnt play style IMO. Mediums shouldnt really be trying to brawn when they are vastly out gunned and out armored.


Once I really think about it, my biggest problem I have with Gauss is lack of ammo. I can spend the entire first minutes of the match stripping armor at 1500km away and have nothing left to take out red CTs. That was my issue playing over the weekend, I kept questioning should I waste this ammo? Right there the AC5's and AC10(some what)win hands down.


I think to use a guass effectively in a medium you have to know its mechanism, and practice its charge times, people not willing to should be using ac10, those with a bit more dicipline Uac5 and for those that struggle to hit the lb10

might sound commonsense but sooner or later you will end up having to brawl with your guass

Also temperament, a lot of people want to be good with gauss but simply haven't the mentality to sit at the back and snipe

Edited by Cathy, 28 October 2014 - 10:15 AM.


#38 mogs01gt

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Posted 28 October 2014 - 11:53 AM

View PostSam Slade, on 28 October 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Because Hunchback eats your face!

negative

Quote

Also, PPC beats AC10 hands down on a medium mech... Wolverine builds are a good example of this...if the 90m min range is bothering you in a medium then you're out of position.

Other than ammo, the PPC is slower(projectile), less DPS and generates way more heat. Also, any smart player will see its a PPC and try to close the gap.

#39 Sam Slade

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 12:13 AM

View Postmogs01gt, on 28 October 2014 - 11:53 AM, said:

negative

Other than ammo, the PPC is slower(projectile), less DPS and generates way more heat. Also, any smart player will see its a PPC and try to close the gap.



Positive! (HBK4G w/AC20 and T5 weapons mods is already a beast.. quirks will make it Mister Medium...

The reason I say PPC is the aforementioned survivability(including components). If you're going to take your medium in close and personal then all that weight in one location is asking to be neutered... at only 7 tonnes the PPC is the same damage with plenty of room for secondary weapons systems/AMS/engine upgrade/Heat Sinks/etc... just makes more sense. The 'close distance' argument doesn't wash because you should have plenty of backups if you're only packing a PPC.

Thought I'd keep the AC10/SRM Wolverine... discovered it's arm gets shot off every game... quickly. Discovered the 7K can take a PPC, 2 MedLas, 2xSSRM, LRM10, AMS, full JJ, BAP and a big STD engine..I know, I know... but it's fun, takes a lot of damage and is a mighty good Assault support mech...(almost as good as a Hunchback...) A

#40 mogs01gt

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Posted 29 October 2014 - 05:55 AM

View PostSam Slade, on 29 October 2014 - 12:13 AM, said:

Positive! (HBK4G w/AC20 and T5 weapons mods is already a beast.. quirks will make it Mister Medium...

lol everytime I see a hunchie on the battlefield, I say to myself "freshmeat" while stripping their RT. Actually, I rarely see hunchies unless its the 4j or 4p.

But when it comes to AC vs Gauss, the Hunchies do not have the tonnage for the Gauss.





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