24 replies to this topic

[Dorion]

Hey Guys,

Would like some help in understanding when I should use Standard Armor vs Ferro Fibrous. Like a noob (which I really am) I always want to use FF because it frees up tonnage. That's my impulse, but I realize I really don't have a good understanding of when I should or shouldn't load it onto my mechs. Any explanations would be greatly appreciated!

[jball999]

Use endo before ferro. It saves more tonnage. Use ferro only if the build has the crit space. With very few exceptions, it is generally considered not to be worth the cost.

Edited by jball999, 21 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Ferro Armor is a good addition when you have already installed Endo Steel (frees up more tonnage than Ferro), and you still need some additional weight savings.

Keep in mind that Ferro also uses crit space (just like Endo Steel), so it is ideal for builds that don't require a lot of free crit space, but need some additional tonnage (maybe for heavier weapons).

Hope that helps a bit.

P.S. Let the Ferro is pointless posts role in LOL.

[Mercules]

When you are using items that take up very few crit slots but lots of tonnage. So typically, never.

Here is why. If you use Lasers which take up only a few crit slots you build up excess heat and will need Double Heat Sinks to help keep the heat lower. DHS take up three crit slots and only weigh a ton so you will end up with a need for crit slots and not tonnage.

Missiles end up requiring ammo... which takes up crit slots.

ACs are big AND require ammo.... which takes up crit slots.


So about the only time you will really use it is either on a tiny light mech or on some mech using something like 3 AC 2s which weight a ton but take up only 1 crit slot each.

[Monkey Lover]

Use endo on every mech.
Use ferro when you have the space.
Really that simple.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Essentially, endo and ferro both trade 14 crit slots for some extra tonnage. Endo frees up a lot more tonnage so you should take it first. Ferro should be taken after endo only if you have more space than you need but could do with an extra 1-2 tons.

Also, please note that ferro does not make your armor 12% more durable it just gives you 12% points per ton. So 54 points of standard armor grants the same protection as 54 tons of ferro armor. The 54 point of ferro just weighs less. It has no impact on your max armor either.

Edited by Rouken, 21 October 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[Mcgral18]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 October 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

P.S. Let the Ferro is pointless posts role in LOL.

It's not wrong.

As it stands, Ferro is always the last picked, because there's no benefit other than saving that last bit of tonnage for 28 crit slots.


A true purpose would be allowing to exceed the max armour cap, so the same weight of armour is whatever % greater.

Take the armor, or the weight savings, or straight up Endo for only weight savings.

[Almond Brown]

Go here and see for yourself. http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

If you can get your weapons and gear ALL on and have 15+ slots left, then the extra tonnage gained may provide a little something extra...

[IceSerpent]

Dorion, on 21 October 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Hey Guys,

Would like some help in understanding when I should use Standard Armor vs Ferro Fibrous. Like a noob (which I really am) I always want to use FF because it frees up tonnage. That's my impulse, but I realize I really don't have a good understanding of when I should or shouldn't load it onto my mechs. Any explanations would be greatly appreciated!

Both endosteel structure and ferro-fibrous armor serve the same purpose - they give you extra tonnage to play with at the expense of critical space. ES is better than FF in that regard though - gives more tonnage for the same amount of crits. So, if you need tonnage and have enough crit space to spare, you get ES. If you need even more tonnage and still have crit space to spare, you get FF. In other words, you always install ES before FF.

[Escef]

Most mechs have the crits for endo. Even into the assault weight class, you will often see people running Battlemasters, Victors, and even the occasional Atlas with endo steel. Ferro armor you rarely have space for in addition to Endo Steel on anything past the medium weight class, and I can't think of a single assault that I use both on. (I've got 3 heavies that use both Endo and Ferro, a CPLT-K2, a TDR-5S, and a CTF-1X. Honestly, while I was working the builds up, I was mildly surprised to have the space.)

Put your build together in Smurfy before trying to go live with it. Don't even bother trying to fit Ferro armor if you don't have endo steel yet. Endo is use if you can, Ferro is at best an afterthought.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Mcgral18, on 21 October 2014 - 07:52 AM, said:

It's not wrong.

As it stands, Ferro is always the last picked, because there's no benefit other than saving that last bit of tonnage for 28 crit slots.


A true purpose would be allowing to exceed the max armour cap, so the same weight of armour is whatever % greater.

Take the armor, or the weight savings, or straight up Endo for only weight savings.

I think its fine as is, just think of it as diminishing returns on trading crit slots for weight. Though, I don't mind giving endo and ferro something else as a balance mechanic between IS and Clan.

Escef, on 21 October 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Most mechs have the crits for endo. Even into the assault weight class, you will often see people running Battlemasters, Victors, and even the occasional Atlas with endo steel. Ferro armor you rarely have space for in addition to Endo Steel on anything past the medium weight class, and I can't think of a single assault that I use both on. (I've got 3 heavies that use both Endo and Ferro, a CPLT-K2, a TDR-5S, and a CTF-1X. Honestly, while I was working the builds up, I was mildly surprised to have the space.)

Put your build together in Smurfy before trying to go live with it. Don't even bother trying to fit Ferro armor if you don't have endo steel yet. Endo is use if you can, Ferro is at best an afterthought.

My rule of thumb is that all lights take both, maybe the Cicada, don't own one so I'm not sure about that. After that everything takes endo (except maybe a few laser boats) up to the Banshee and Atlas where you can consider dropping it for more space.

Edited by Rouken, 21 October 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Dracol]

I good way to view Endo and Ferro are that they both are ways to save weight.

Endo is step 1 for weight savings

Ferro is step 2 for weight savings

Not really explained well in game thought......

[Metus regem]

Dorion, on 21 October 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Hey Guys,

Would like some help in understanding when I should use Standard Armor vs Ferro Fibrous. Like a noob (which I really am) I always want to use FF because it frees up tonnage. That's my impulse, but I realize I really don't have a good understanding of when I should or shouldn't load it onto my mechs. Any explanations would be greatly appreciated!

Generally speaking, Endo Steel is used on most mechs, IS pilots have a space tax of 14 critial spaces in there mech for it, FF for IS mechs also uses 14 spaces.

It's good to use both Endo Steel and FF on light mechs, generally with an XL engine as well, as they need as much free weight as they can get.

Mediums, will often see both, sometimes all three again, this is a case of they usually have excess space, but not enough tonnage free.

At heavy and up, you will often see just Endo Steel, as they now have a lot more free tonnage to work with to begin with, but would be critical space starved if they used both Endo and FF.

[Mercules]

Rouken, on 21 October 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

My rule of thumb is that all lights take both, maybe the Cicada, don't own one so I'm not sure about that. space.

Nope, there are several light builds where that prevents taking a weapon or ammo for a weapon that you need, especially on mechs with JJs. Some lights can make use of it, but not all of them.

[DEMAX51]

Mercules, on 21 October 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Nope, there are several light builds where that prevents taking a weapon or ammo for a weapon that you need, especially on mechs with JJs. Some lights can make use of it, but not all of them.

Yeah, most Lights can take Ferro, but some are better off without it. Firestarters can't always make use of it, and there's a Jenner-F build without Ferro that'll give you the extra crit-space to cram in one more DHS if you drop your armor down a little.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Mercules, on 21 October 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Nope, there are several light builds where that prevents taking a weapon or ammo for a weapon that you need, especially on mechs with JJs. Some lights can make use of it, but not all of them.

Care to give us an example? You don't mean joke builds like the AC20 Raven, do you?

[Elizander]

Well it would sorta be a buff to light mechs if Ferro gave 1 armor point extra to ST/CT/Legs/Arms per weight category of the mech if you equip it. Bigger mechs won't really use Ferro. Since clan versions are half the crits they can just give 0.5 armor per weight category for clams.

[Escef]

Rouken, on 21 October 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Care to give us an example? You don't mean joke builds like the AC20 Raven, do you?

I recently removed ferro armor from my COM-2D and cut a half ton of SSRM ammo to swap it back to double sinks.

[Mercules]

Rouken, on 21 October 2014 - 08:54 AM, said:

Care to give us an example? You don't mean joke builds like the AC20 Raven, do you?

Most Commandos, for example, have issues fitting the required number of DHS to bring it up to 10 if they use both Endo and FF.

[Dorion]

Wow. You guys are the best! Thanks for the info! I thought in MW4 that one armor was better at deflecting lasers than the other, but I see none of that applies here. After reading through your explanations, I have a much better understanding how it all works. One thing I think will help me understand even better would be an explanation of what items can be used in Critical slots? If I'm sacrificing Crits to load on armor, what items am I giving up? I know I could do some trial and error on Smurfy, but if you could enlighten me or point to a link that would detail items that need critical slots, I would appreciate it. ~S~