59 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

Alek Ituin, on 21 October 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Last I checked it would, because GH still takes effect when you chain fire at too short a delay.

Fixing both LRM-5 boats, and whatever you want to call the other boats, is still a win in my book. Might promote more open combat and less "hide behind rocks because holy s**t there's so many LRM's".

the cooldown of an LRM5 is 3.25 seconds, chainfire fires once every 0.5 seconds, by design (assuming you hold the fire button down)
you fire once at zero seconds, second launcher at 0.5, third at 1, 4th at 1.5, 5th at 2 and 6th at 2.5 seconds. so there is still a 0.75 second period until the first one cools down. no ghost heat. In order to run into ghost heat, youd have to mount 8+, and no mech can do that.

[Sentinel069]

Very excited about this patch. Good work PGI.

[Kutfroat]

patch notes say:

The CN9-AH will appear in the Mechlab of anyone who had purchased an MC package or any Founders collection.

do i understand it wrong? this means, if i bought mc in the past, i should get it? or what does "mc package" mean in this case?

thx in advance for clarification...

[VtTimber]

Typo in patch notes, should've been JJ I, III and IV...

[Duke Nedo]

Haven't played yet, but I got to say the patch notes are the best ever!

[Project_Mercy]

Alek Ituin, on 21 October 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:

Never mind, the entire PPC family is still worthless.

I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

You know when you die in some solo game and you end up spectating some new person who built their mechs with ERPPCs thinking it'd be cool like in TT; and then everyone in your team makes fun of that new person right before they overheat and die horribly without having accomplished anything useful? Well this change just makes sure they suicide at the start of the match and don't get laughed at in team when people figure out they were using PPCs.

Think of the chlidren!

[Revorn]

Kutfroat, on 21 October 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

patch notes say:

The CN9-AH will appear in the Mechlab of anyone who had purchased an MC package or any Founders collection.

do i understand it wrong? this means, if i bought mc in the past, i should get it? or what does "mc package" mean in this case?

thx in advance for clarification...

Yes, if you bougth MC in the Past, you should now be an proud Owner of the new CN9-AH.

[Alek Ituin]

Widowmaker1981, on 21 October 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

the cooldown of an LRM5 is 3.25 seconds, chainfire fires once every 0.5 seconds, by design (assuming you hold the fire button down)
you fire once at zero seconds, second launcher at 0.5, third at 1, 4th at 1.5, 5th at 2 and 6th at 2.5 seconds. so there is still a 0.75 second period until the first one cools down. no ghost heat. In order to run into ghost heat, youd have to mount 8+, and no mech can do that.

Well that sounds like an annoying design oversight.

Maybe they should fix that.

Wraeththix Constantine, on 21 October 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

I think you're looking at it the wrong way.

You know when you die in some solo game and you end up spectating some new person who built their mechs with ERPPCs thinking it'd be cool like in TT; and then everyone in your team makes fun of that new person right before they overheat and die horribly without having accomplished anything useful? Well this change just makes sure they suicide at the start of the match and don't get laughed at in team when people figure out they were using PPCs.

Think of the chlidren!

Your sarcasm is appreciated.

Now I'll never have to watch some poor sod shut down 8 times in a row!

[Sprouticus]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 October 2014 - 10:18 AM, said:

Reward system is great.

Now if they'd just add modes and maps that can really take advantage of them, that would make me really interested. As it stands it's just a different way to reward us for doing the exact same thing.

They need to create situations where scouting and information gathering is more important.

You are missing the point. Role warfare is not about making special snowflake roles where the scout feels special. Role warfare is about the scout scouting, which in turn allows the rest of the team to know where the enemy is, thus allowing them to position themselves better, take advantage of mistakes and opening, etc. flankers are not about getting easy kills, it is about getting a back shot onto someone in vulnerable armor places. Support mechs is not about getting kills, they are about SUPPORTING the rest of the team, their efforts.


All of these things can be done in any game mode. They create a synergy (god I hate that word) where the team together operates far better than it would if ou just had 12 guys moving in a death ball.


Will these rewards create Role warfare? Maybe some. This is a SOFT change, meaning PGI has incentivized the players to play roles, they do not force them to. And frankly a lot of people just want to kill stuff.


But when you are playing a light now, you have options to (if they balanced the numbers correctly) get as many rewards as a pure damage dealer. If you want to play an escort Hunchieback or kitfox, you are rewarded for your effort. If you want to play a flanking light or fast medium, you can without hurting the leveling process and feeling like you HAVE to do mega damage.

Edited by Sprouticus, 21 October 2014 - 12:07 PM.

[Tuefel Hunden]

Wow, the Mad Dog just took one to the chin.

[-Ramrod-]

Don't know if this should go here but I'm having an error. In the mech lab when you click "Skils" and it shows a list of mechs and the ones you've mastered...it doesn't show I mastered the Locust (which I have) and that I mastered the Hunchback (which I haven't).

[Scratx]

Tuefel Hunden, on 21 October 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Wow, the Mad Dog just took one to the chin.

Kind of needed, actually, that build is a mite sick.

Plenty more builds that didn't get hit, though, just the hexa LRM5 build.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Sprouticus, on 21 October 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

You are missing the point. Role warfare is not about making special snowflake roles where the scout feels special. Role warfare is about the scout scouting, which in turn allows the rest of the team to know where the enemy is, thus allowing them to position themselves better, take advantage of mistakes and opening, etc. flankers are not about getting easy kills, it is about getting a back shot onto someone in vulnerable armor places. Support mechs is not about getting kills, they are about SUPPORTING the rest of the team, their efforts.

Not missing the point. This game is boring, flat and predictable. That's why while these are good changes, it doesn't fix the game play problem.

Right now we 12vs12 on small, very predictable maps, with modes that are completely static.

There no real major guessing involved.

Just think about gameplay with dynamic secondary objectives to go along with a dynamic primary objectives. Where maps are big enough that there are multiple random spawn points for lances to drop in. And where an assault mech's decision on where to move actually hinges on the scouts on his team doing proper reconnaisance for the team.

THAT is a real game, THAT is a thinking man's shooter. What we have now is TDM. And we're rewarded differently for doing the same exact thing. But it doesn't suddenly make the game more fun or dynamic.

[Sprouticus]

Tuefel Hunden, on 21 October 2014 - 12:07 PM, said:

Wow, the Mad Dog just took one to the chin.

Not really. The ghost heat has always been an issue for the MadDog. And frankly clan LRM's stream so chain firing them really doesnt hurt your DPS much.


The stalker and catapult-A1 on the other hand....

[Tuefel Hunden]

Sprouticus, on 21 October 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

Not really. The ghost heat has always been an issue for the MadDog. And frankly clan LRM's stream so chain firing them really doesnt hurt your DPS much.


The stalker and catapult-A1 on the other hand....

Yes, chain firing does hurt DPS as it takes 6x the time for your missiles to launch.

[Sprouticus]

Tuefel Hunden, on 21 October 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Yes, chain firing does hurt DPS as it takes 6x the time for your missiles to launch.

You can fire 4 of them without ghost heat. so 4+2 or 3+3 with 0.5s gap. If you chain fire 2 groups of 3, you only lose DPS on the gap between the 1st shot. The rest of the time you are firing max speed.

So while you are technically correct, it is not big enough to be really impactful. Especially compared to the IS mechs.

[Revis Volek]

Tuefel Hunden, on 21 October 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

Yes, chain firing does hurt DPS as it takes 6x the time for your missiles to launch.

Its negligible at best....He is also talking about CLAN LURMS! Which Stream anyway.....if they have even one(1) AMS rolling your DPS is shot to all hell anyway because you cant hit them.

Love the changes! Us medium and light mech jockeys finally gettin some love!

Edited by DarthRevis, 21 October 2014 - 12:41 PM.

[Sprouticus]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 21 October 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

Not missing the point. This game is boring, flat and predictable. That's why while these are good changes, it doesn't fix the game play problem.

Right now we 12vs12 on small, very predictable maps, with modes that are completely static.
There no real major guessing involved.

Just think about gameplay with dynamic secondary objectives to go along with a dynamic primary objectives. Where maps are big enough that there are multiple random spawn points for lances to drop in. And where an assault mech's decision on where to move actually hinges on the scouts on his team doing proper reconnaisance for the team.

THAT is a real game, THAT is a thinking man's shooter. What we have now is TDM. And we're rewarded differently for doing the same exact thing. But it doesn't suddenly make the game more fun or dynamic.

Don't get me wrong, I want better game modes too. And better objectives would be terrifc. Not disagreeing at all. But that is NOT role warfare. That is game mode design. Sure, some game mode design could enhance role warfare, but it won't create it.

the old reward system actively discouraged role warfare because it was all about dmg and kills. PGI has finally seen the light on this and is not only changing the model but actually encouraging playing specific roles.


Regarding the rest of your comments:

The current game play is not boring to me. If it bores you, that is your opinion and it is as valid as anyone.

As for bigger maps, I see what you are saying, and generally I agree. But people complain about the maps we have, saying they are too big. Imagine how folks would feel if they have to walk for 5 minutes just to get to the fight. They would hate it.

Scouting will always be fairly limited in MWO, although the new rewards help. Other roles (support, escort, tag, etc) may be viable though.

Edited by Sprouticus, 21 October 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Maps are only too big when there is nothing to do on them.

Scouting being limited just shows how mundane game play is.

If your 50kph assault mech actually relied on a medium or light mech to relay information on objectives and enemy locations, and not having the information could cause you to be out of place when the battle took place.

THAT would be role warfare.

We do not, and have never had role warfare in this game.

[Darlith]

Alek Ituin, on 21 October 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

It'll stop LRM-5 spam boats so it's a win in my book. You know, the ones that launch a constant stream of LRM fire and shake your screen to the point of uselessness.

At least when you got hammered by an AC/2 boat, it was probably your fault for getting in front of it.

Not sure how it works for the Clan boats but for something like say a Catapult A1 with 6 lrm 5 launchers they will keep on chain firing those lrms and shake your screen as much as always. Firing all 6 in a chain barely taps my heat up to 20% on caustic, firing two groups of 3 each with a slight delay is about the same. Only when firing all 6 as a single group is the ghost heat at all a problem then they jump my heat scale up to somewhere in the 45% range. And that is just with the 10 double heatsinks in the engine.