120 replies to this topic

[Phaeric Cyrh]

knightsljx, on 25 October 2014 - 01:07 AM, said:

This new reward system is just rewarding people for doing TAG/NARC/LRM. Which sounds like role warfare but in reality is punishing people who do the real work like tanking and high DPS direct fire.

When some guy posted he got 200k CBills for doing zero damage and only TAGing, right there is an indication that something is wrong.

A game I just played using one of strongest Stormcrow builds

This is what you get when you don't TAG/NARC. Straight up SRM brawling Stormcrow, top damage and top match score across both teams. 178k CBills WITH premium time. In the past, this would have easily been a 200k game w/o premium time.

And do you know what this incentivises me to do? Load up on LRMs/TAG/NARC and sit in the back lines, not doing high DPS direct fire damage. That's what.

First of all, that guy only made 83k, not 200. Also he had like 13 spotting assists (which is a good number), and without seeing the rest of his scores it's hard to say exactly why he made that much loot, but 83k is really not that much.

Again, I posted the results of my first 2 consecutive matches from yesterday morning. Both in my Ilya which is a pure brawler build with no TAG or NARC.



This one was a pretty pathetic showing and my first game of the morning.. As you can see I didn't even break 200 damage and only a hand full of kill/kill asissts. Still, not a bad payout for such lame output.

Without hero or premium time this is about 80,000 C-bills. That is not that bad of a payout for what was a pretty lame performance.

My next match:



This one was a better match.. not a awesome, but pretty good. Once again, this is in my brawler Ilya (3UAC5 and 3MPLS) with NO TAG OR NARC.

Again, I had premium time so if I didn't of course this number would be a little less. Still, that is not a bad payout for simple brawling..

I'm not sure why your numbers were so low, but since the hot patch my experience with my brawler builds has them earning roughly what they were before, and my scouts earning more than before (which is a good thing).

Can you rack up points with TAG/NARC? Of course, and maybe those values need to be adjusted. I said on the previous page that I thought the scoring for those should be put back to the way they were in Rewards 1.0.

But overall I think it's a good thing that support class mechs now have the ability to rack up the c-bils without massive damage outputs.. It's why no one is playing lights. Because the previous scoring system only focused on damage and kills, and didn't reward the little things the scout mech's do to help the team win.

My Raven 3L after taking BAP, TAG and NARC only has room for an Srm 4 and 2 ML.. So it doesn't have the punch that many brawler builds have. However with my UAV's, advanced sensor range mod and ECM I am contributing FAR more to the fight than simply damage output. When I NARC the opposing ECM mechs and they get LRM'd into the ground, I may not get 1 damage point, but the contribution was huge nonetheless.

Edited by Phaeric Cyrh, 25 October 2014 - 02:37 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

then you were not looking at the same thread I was, someone definitely posted a 200k game with no damage. i wish i remembered where that thread was. or if you could point out the thread you saw.

I'm not saying we should not reward scouting etc..... but this new system has gone complete opposite in the other way.

the new rewards in 2.0 should have been stacked on top of the old rewards. because it is now punishing people who do the fighting


based on what I see, the difference between your 141k and mine is that I do not have any scouting and flanking bonuses. but I did way more damage. your 300k game had comparable damage, but you had more kills and way more component destruction.

if the differences were down to kills, then this is an extremely bad step for the game. It used to be that the difference between a kill and an assist was minimal, which is why people seldom QQ about "kill securing" in this game.

[Phaeric Cyrh]

knightsljx, on 25 October 2014 - 03:29 AM, said:

then you were not looking at the same thread I was, someone definitely posted a 200k game with no damage. i wish i remembered where that thread was. or if you could point out the thread you saw.

I'm not saying we should not reward scouting etc..... but this new system has gone complete opposite in the other way.

the new rewards in 2.0 should have been stacked on top of the old rewards. because it is now punishing people who do the fighting


based on what I see, the difference between your 141k and mine is that I do not have any scouting and flanking bonuses. but I did way more damage. your 300k game had comparable damage, but you had more kills and way more component destruction.

if the differences were down to kills, then this is an extremely bad step for the game. It used to be that the difference between a kill and an assist was minimal, which is why people seldom QQ about "kill securing" in this game.

Pretty sure you read the same post I did.. Here is the link: http://mwomercs.com/...em/page__st__83

Anyway, my pathetic round wasn't much better than yours in C-bill payout and the spotting was only 4000 cb.. And in my good round, the spotting and scouting was minimal in regard to the overall payout.

My good round does sport more kills and assists, as well as components destroyed. But one may argue that this represents effective damage and not just damage. I don't think the kills are worth that much, but I did have a couple of solo kills and "most damage" kill assists that when combined with flanking, "lance in formation", "protected" and other bonuses then the points really begin to stack up.

I could post more screenshots, but suffice it to say, these screenshots were not cherry picked.. I got home from work determined to post some screenshots. Found out they were stored in the MWO/users directory and posted the 1st 2 matches I played. These results are consistent with what I earn from match to match, some better some worse.

Perhaps it's a difference in play styles but again, I am not doing anything to attempt to farm these points. Staying with my lance, moving with my team, focusing fire etc seem to be rewarded for the brawling role.

[Inveramsay]

I've taken a 25% hit in earnings (estimated). I play severeal brawler mechs and now rarely post over 200k earnings with premium time active. Before this patch a good match would net me 250k, now anywhere between 150-225k with the rare game that ends up at over 300k. I think one of the main differences is the reward for saviour kills have gone down. Before one could rack up enormous amounts of money from those and it was great for lights. I agree with the rewards system in principle but lots of them aren't high enough to be an incentive.

[D A T A]

give more c bills

we are just sick of this freemium game

with your logic you lost 90% of your playerbase

you want too much money for too few content

a good player must earn 200 000 c bills per game as medium value without pemium time or hero mech

Edited by IL MECHWARRIOR, 25 October 2014 - 05:08 AM.

[Bigbacon]

please remove or GREATLY reduce the 'first spot' reward. It is bringing out the light farmers who run off at the start to target everything and then either die or come back greatly damaged with in the first minute of a round.

I understand what it should have been for, but it isn't doing what you guys intended.

[RogueGarou]

I do not post often to the forums. I would hope that helps show how the new Rewards 2.0 and the recent patch in general have performed in my case. As the game stands now, it is not worth my time to play and it is certainly not worth another investment of funds for the new Inner Sphere pack.

The new rewards system could have been a fun additional thing to add to the game to allow players with different play styles to get benefits from playing what and how they want. It was poorly executed and placed as a replacement for the existing scoring system in a ham-handed fashion which makes it appear that it was not properly tested before it was introduced into the production environment. Unless it is performing as you intended in which case I feel that some explanation is deserved to the player base.

Your idea of role-based benefits is quite vague and it implies that you have an idea of what each role is for each player\Mech. How is this determined? Did you simply decide that all assault-class Mechs were to be LRM fire support and all light Mechs were to be TAG\NARC\ECM\BAP scouts? That does not fit in with many of the new rewards that are offered. Additionally, that limits how a player can play the Mechs they have purchased or at a minimum punishes them for customizing the Mech to suit them? If that was your intent, then the MechLab and any modifiable options should be removed from the game as you have determined that there are only four Mech builds needed for the game.

Additionally, the election of the name Rewards 2.0 was a poor choice, I think. To me, and possibly other people, calling something a reward invokes an idea of something provided as an additional benefit. After a couple of years of playing the game it seems that your decision to change the scoring system so drastically and NOT modify the cost of items and unlocks for the Mechs is not a good idea. The scoring system needed to be modified but the manner in which you have modified it seems to have been scrambled together without a driving focus and without enough foresight, planning, and testing.

Just my thoughts. I play all different classes of Mech. I play Inner Sphere and Clan. To me, this is the first time that the game has been consistently not fun. Having a bad night or a bad Mech makes grinding it out very dissatisfying. Now, unless you do things a certain way, every Mech will be a grind. This seems a great step backwards.

[M0rpHeu5]

Posting rewards with prem time, hero mech or both says very little. Also we need to post the entire rewards list

P.S.: Getting hit and run on a Jenner when I am in a Dire wolf is awesome

Edited by M0rpHeu5, 25 October 2014 - 09:55 AM.

[Tim East]

Yeah...TAG is a little ridiculous. This was in a previous COM-2D build sporting 3SSRM2 and TAG. Don't get me wrong, I love that I get rewarded for using it seriously now instead of the joke it was before, but maybe it is a little much when everything else is so little. It might be better to reduce the per-damage value of the TAG damage reward by about 25-30% and improve the value of most other rewards by about 20%, and implement my "Tanking" reward suggestion at something like 10XP 1500CB 1 sec cooldown for any given enemy but allowing for rewards from multiple foes at once.

All values estimates based solely on personal experience and subject to change as needed for better balance. Not responsible for any happiness or unhappiness resulting from implementation of these suggestions. Your mileage may vary. See your doctor if this lasts more than four hours.

[Bilaz]

Yes tag-narc rewards are a bit too much, while rest is less than ideal. But main problem i have with reward system is that its universal. We have different weights and classes - so mechs are played differently and have different potential, so to reward them on the same scale - not the best idea imo.

I'd rather see one system for lights, (slighty) different one for mediums and so on. Because its expected for assault mech to do decent damage and get some kills, due to being on the front line - for heavy mech supporting directly or not is the name of the game, mediums should be more of a flankers, skirmishers, lights should be doing more scouting (so sticking near lancemate should be more rewarded for heavier mechs, and less for lighter ones - so that there will be incentive for assault to look where team is going and follow, while light may be better off behind enemy lines for a while).
Since there's no clear division - rewards should change in a way that lights and meds have more in common, than assaults. Also deathballing should not be encouraged - say half for everything (xcept lance stuff - shooting one target and such) earned while with more than 6 friendly mechs in 200m radius.
But i'd also like to see relative rewards - if you out damaged everyone in your lance or team (and you shouldn't have) - that should be noted. If you took more damage (%) before death than everyone else - thats also good - no need to make it huge, but something notable like 5000c bills.

So to reiterate - i want different, based on roles rewards for light and assaults mechs (say 20000 solokil for light and 5000 for assault, meeting in between) and (relative) performance bonuses to players who performed unexpectedly well, compared to their teammates and/or enemies.
Now - assault can put on tag and outdo light in every way and/or one can get huge tag rewards when there is no need for tagging - no lrms or ecm. Thats super bad.

[Gattsus]

Please bump Assist to 4500!

Edited by Gattsus, 26 October 2014 - 05:46 AM.

[Bigbacon]

Here are my thoughts after some more play in damage only built mechs (no support options at all)

1.Put all the original reward values from before the patch back to what they were. (though keep the conquest change so they are in line with assault and skirmish)
2. Then add the new rewards on top of those but maybe reduce all the values some.

Major modifications to new rewards.
1. greatly reduce the tag rewards or change the way it works to stop the farming aspect of it.
2. Same with Narc (although I had NO issue with how narc rewards worked before).
3. remove or greatly reduce the first spotted reward to remove the farming aspect of it.

the 3 above are greatly abused. the idea is sound, the implementation is bad. Again, Narc and Tag rewards weren't that bad before the patch. Maybe put them back to how they used to work but up the values some.

I think everything is pretty much cool to have.

Edited by Bigbacon, 27 October 2014 - 06:22 AM.

[ImperialKnight]

Bigbacon, on 27 October 2014 - 06:20 AM, said:

Here are my thoughts after some more play in damage only built mechs (no support options at all)

1.Put all the original reward values from before the patch back to what they were. (though keep the conquest change so they are in line with assault and skirmish)
2. Then add the new rewards on top of those but maybe reduce all the values some.

Major modifications to new rewards.
1. greatly reduce the tag rewards or change the way it works to stop the farming aspect of it.
2. Same with Narc (although I had NO issue with how narc rewards worked before).
3. remove or greatly reduce the first spotted reward to remove the farming aspect of it.

the 3 above are greatly abused. the idea is sound, the implementation is bad. Again, Narc and Tag rewards weren't that bad before the patch. Maybe put them back to how they used to work but up the values some.

I think everything is pretty much cool to have.

Exactly. New rewards should be stacked on top of old rewards.

New rewards should not be punishing people who do the actual work of tanking and killing stuff

[Detriitus]

Did someone from pgi state somewhere why they did not include ams-rewards in the new system?

Just wondering, I do like the new rewards and am making a lot of c-bills/xp without tag/narc.

[Herzog]

I kinda like the new rewards, although they seem a little low. Will just take some time to balance out I guess.

[M0rpHeu5]

LRMs trigger the flanking reward.

[Wiktor Kostka]

I like the idea of the reward system but it rewards style of play not skill. It rewards how you think I should play and that removes gameplay by rewarding what you think I did right and not the strategies and tactics that I try to come up with myself.

I am making more c-bills and XP now, but only because I changed my style of play away from what I enjoyed more. If I did not change I would stay broke with the new system.

narrowing the way I must play to be successful is making the game more dry, stale, and predictable.

[Lygris Targerian]

Now that I have played a couple of games with different mechs and builds I must say that, although I like the general Idea behind the changes, I am very unhappy with the new rewards as a whole.
From what I have experienced so far I find the XP rewards ridiculously low with the new system. Only certain playstyles are rewarded and if you don't adapt, your XP rewards are substancially lower than before.
Right now I have the feeling that I am very restricted in the types of builds that will yield satisfying rewards. Unfortunatly I do not want to play like this all the time. So I guess right now I have to choose between builds and playstyles that are economically effective and those that are fun for me.
Under these conditions I am not very motivated to level mechs. I hope the system will be tweaked to give better rewards to a wider number of succesful and team oriented playstyles.