61 replies to this topic

[BourbonFaucet]

Once in a while I see a thread talking about reversion of the PPC's travel speed, since it's harder to hit targets beyond the optimal range.

However, less and less I'm seeing jumpsniping, whereas the damage and travel of the PPC seems reasonable at the 500m range. Yet for some reason, it feels like they're just not that useful anymore, maybe because the PPC is still an all-or nothing proposition unlike a laser, if you miss, you're taking all that heat.

So if it's not going to be a fast projectile, maybe it could run slightly cooler to encourage their use as a mid-range energy battle cannon:

8 - PPC

12 - ER PPC (both technology bases)

By lowering the heat a little bit, the PPC may be harder to hit with, but it's not nearly as punishing to miss with the weapon.

Thoughts?

[Brody319]

People just can't predict where a target will be. I've hit things moving at ranges of 800+M with PPCs easily. People just need to adapt to the speed difference.
I think ghost heat for them needs to be tuned down a bit, regular heat it fine. Not nullified just turned down a bit.

[Mcgral18]

You're seeing less poptarting because JJs were gimped. You would see dual gauss poptarts if you could still jump, since they will hit the same panel and move 2000M/s.

Increasing the PPC speed by a few hundred M/s wouldn't change how JJs work.

[BourbonFaucet]

Brody319, on 21 October 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

People just can't predict where a target will be. I've hit things moving at ranges of 800+M with PPCs easily. People just need to adapt to the speed difference.
I think ghost heat for them needs to be tuned down a bit, regular heat it fine. Not nullified just turned down a bit.

Except that we still have the case where the clan PPC and IS ER PPC is excruciating to use in pairs. Now that the projectile is the Mooninite Quad Laser, it certainly feels like getting hit by it is your own fault. Lowering the standard heat just helps to slightly decrease the need to land every single shot. As it is you can get more damage scratching with larges than if you miss with a PPC, which will do zero damage.

Mcgral18, on 21 October 2014 - 02:59 PM, said:

You're seeing less poptarting because JJs were gimped. You would see dual gauss poptarts if you could still jump, since they will hit the same panel and move 2000M/s.

Increasing the PPC speed by a few hundred M/s wouldn't change how JJs work.

This is rather true, actually.

[Bishop Steiner]

honestly would rather have some speed back. While I can hit decently at range, out past 500 meters anything faster than about 64 kph can usually dodge and juke if they are paying attention. Rather have PPCs hot, with a longer cooldown, and their speed restored.

[kapusta11]

I just don't care anymore, I don't use them and I most likely won't.

Edited by kapusta11, 21 October 2014 - 03:03 PM.

[Rhaegor]

Increased heat is supposed to stop stacking 4 or 6 PPC. I don't like PPCs myself anyway. I am more of a UAC5 with medium or large lasers kind of guy.

[Solis Obscuri]

The only 'mech I can think of with jumpjets and the hardpoints/weight to mount 2 Gauss Rifles is... maybe the Summoner D? Though in any event the charge mechanic makes Gauss less than ideal for jump-sniping.

[edit] Ah, no, could shoehorn them into a CTF-3D too.

Edited by Solis Obscuri, 21 October 2014 - 03:07 PM.

[Xarian]

PPCs need more viability as long-ranged weapons, not increased performance as medium-ranged weapons.

[BourbonFaucet]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 October 2014 - 03:02 PM, said:

honestly would rather have some speed back. While I can hit decently at range, out past 500 meters anything faster than about 64 kph can usually dodge and juke if they are paying attention. Rather have PPCs hot, with a longer cooldown, and their speed restored.

Yeah, a compromise from the nerf might actually be the best for the weapon. I'm not saying "WE MUST HAVE A HEAT BUFF", I'm merely suggesting it in case adding any of the speed back isn't an option. I'd like some speed back too, I didn't poptart before JJ were nerfed, and I'm not going to if they re-buff PPC's.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Haven't really made up my mind on this yet. It feels a lot like the Gauss charge. Which I despised when it came out, but now I've adjusted and would actually hate to see the charge go.

[kapusta11]

PPC projectile speed was never an issue, it was always about weapon combination.

[Bishop Steiner]

kapusta11, on 21 October 2014 - 03:14 PM, said:

PPC projectile speed was never an issue, it was always about weapon combination.

Yes. Paul rarely actually nerfed the things that would actually FIX the problem. Now Paul is no longer in charge of balance. And so far, Rus has done a much better job listening to feedback. Still a few things I can gripe about, but during most of the Paul era, it was pretty much EVERYTHING balance-wise made no sense, so net win?

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

A 3rd option.

Eliminate PPC's having a minimum range.

.

[Christof Romulus]

Techorse, on 21 October 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

So if it's not going to be a fast projectile, maybe it could run slightly cooler to encourage their use as a mid-range energy battle cannon:

8 - PPC

12 - ER PPC (both technology bases)

*clears throat*

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo~~~~!

THIS is PRECISELY where ghost heat was invented. For some reason the PPC's heat was cut to 8, and the ERPPC's heat was cut to 13, AND THEN CAME THE BOATING... then the dark times...

After that, they implemented ghost heat because reducing the heat to 8 on the PPC doesn't make the PPC more usable, it makes it so if you bring 6 ppcs, you generate the heat of 5 ppcs!

Yes, I know that Ghost heat is here now and will likely prevent the occurrence of the 6 PPC stalker, but the real threat was the 4 ppc stalker, and reducing heat by 8 (that's 2 x 4 people), that nearly gives it credence to make a resurgence.

PPCs are fine where they are. Move along... move along...

[UrsusMorologus]

I would say its even simpler, remove the minimum range on regular PPC, and then cut the heat on ERPPC by 1

Could also do something interesting like make regular PPC burst have a larger hitbox than the ERPPC, so that regular was more forgiving, but still range limited

[Featherwood]

I am perfectly OK with PPC where they currently are. What I would rather like to return back is PPC animations and sounds from closed beta. It looked badass.

[Kiiyor]

I want the 2000m/s speed brought back, and the damage lowered to 8. Really.

They FELT better when they were faster. They had impact, they were exciting.

[Strum Wealh]

Christof Romulus, on 21 October 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

THIS is PRECISELY where ghost heat was invented. For some reason the PPC's heat was cut to 8, and the ERPPC's heat was cut to 13, AND THEN CAME THE BOATING... then the dark times...

Exactly - reducing the per-salvo heat on the PPCs/ER-PPCs (and, thus, improving their "boataility") was one of the significant unbalancing factors that originally lead to the implementation of Heat Scaling, and exactly the WRONG approach now.

While the PPCs/ER-PPCs could arguably stand a SMALL increase in projectile speed (or, alternatively, a massive increase in projectile velocity coupled with a massive decrease in fall-off distance), they are largely fine-as-is; the current "issues" (such as they are) with PPCs/ER-PPCs are arguably PICNICs more than anything else.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Id be ok with a tweak to ERPPC from 10/2.5/2.5--15heat to 12dmg/13.5 Heat. maybe increase CD to like 4.5.

And then apply it to where we cant fire more then 2 PPC at a time like they did the GR.

Edited by LordKnightFandragon, 21 October 2014 - 03:50 PM.