114 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

So... you put at least $500 in faith money for PGI to make good decisions?

Well, that's an expensive lesson.

[zortesh]

I'm biased against this because it killed my favorite build and the only build I really cared about the timberwolf atall for...

No more narc + 3xlrm15+ 4xmedlas .. i could do it now... but with pathetic ammo levels.

I hope they add some side torso pods with 2 missile hardpoints and no jumpjets or anything else... till then my free wifi timberwolf is dead, it will be missed.

[Lily from animove]

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 21 October 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

While I'm sure EVERYONE is well aware of the new rediculous feature with fixed JJ's, to those who own clan mechs not many people seem to care. I read an earlier post that had ALOT of trolling, harrassment, and bullying towards 1 player but unfortunatly his post was removed while I was trying to reply.

So here I am calling out PGI on the second worst mistake EVER in the history of MWO, only decideing to make MWO a strictly PVP only game. Yes PGI isnt perfect, they are human, they need sleep just like we do. They arnt cyborgs or we would be in trouble. But they have more than 1 head, they commuincate and they have a wealth of information at their hands, including an enormous player community to rely on who (sometimes-not always, troll-badmouth, have their monthlys-period, social problems and cant figure what they really want from PGI) can help PGI. Yet here I am, trying to rationalize the brain dead idea to change a couple mechs into something that should never have been changed in the way they were. I dont agree with the patch, I never use JJ's even if I'm on the timberwolf. Not sure what other mech was nerfed with perminent JJ's since I just logged in to check 1 mech to confirm.

Not like I really should care what happens to the game but I care about my account. I paid for it, why shouldn't i if PGI is going to ruin something I was confortable with before. Why fix something that wasnt broke? Point is FUQ the JJ's NO ONE USES THEM ON THE TIMBER! It totaly ruined the build I used to use on it before, no point in having omni LRMx2 on it since its useless now with the stupid JJ's taking up almost half the space.

Tbh, there is basically nothing wrong wth giving the TBR those fixed JJ's TBR is still the strongest chassis. and you can at least use some omnipods without. Summoenrs and Novas can't. what really sucks is that the right S torso now has 5 critical slots and 4 weapon hardpoints. So basically the B hardpoint here is rather pointless because any decent B wepaon is already making the use of other heardpoints impossible. But yet, there is at least some competition between the TBR omnipods, because previously, there was no reason not to use the rights S torso. And then, F*ck the JJ's no one is using them, yet the inferior chassis don't even have a SINGLE variant without. What do you think do they feel since the clanners arrived? What I don't like is the JJ change gave us height in sacrifice of distance.

Edited by Lily from animove, 21 October 2014 - 11:29 PM.

[Salvag3]

@ cSand : it's more about forcing equipment into a mech that it dosen't need, most people used the hard points for LRM racks and have no real use for JJs on a long range support mech. It's been in this thread before but it's worth saying again, the Timber wolfs biggest strength is it's versatility. I'm just not a fan of marketing the Clans as " cutting edge tech " And then having pod load outs that don't make sense. Putting one Missle hard point on them would have made a lot more sense than eating up 4 more slots and 4 more tons of free space. Clan mechs already suffer from a lack of customization options by not being able to change eng size, frame, armor type and hardware heat sinks and in the case of the adder a weapon. The more options you take away the more you force a " correct build " I enjoy options. And yes I can take one of the other pods, but I can no longer build a viable Missle support mech with out either giving up my point blank defense ( 4 med las ) or give be out of ammo much more quickly into the match. Yes I will surely find a new way to refit my TW for good LRM support but I will no longer be using theses pods on any build except my SRM brawler.

[Powder Puff Pew Pew]

Asmudius Heng, on 21 October 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

You are comparing a minor change in build mechanics and balance to a high level decision about how to market and run a game in a niche where no one wanted to fund a single player game ...

Also ... you are saying that this decision is worse than.

- ECM
- Ghost heat
- Terrible US design
- Broken promises over CW over and over and over
- TERRIBLE new player features and flow
- Abhorrent weapons balance for many YEARS let alone months or weeks

This is what you consider near the top of their greatest failings.

Wow.

I have never seen a clanner cry so hard that his power trip has been curbs ever so slightly. On the scale of test tube crybaby this is a ful on 11 out of 10.

I am laughing pretty hard at the overblown hyperbole here thanks for the giggle!!

If you actually want to have a discussion about a change it might be wiser to you know ... not come off as a but hurt crybaby

First of all, unless you werent aware and I'm sure you weren't...I'm a woman. Secondly If you buy something and its the wrong item, or you buy it as a gift for a friend and they dont like it, or you just buy it and its not to your liking you have the obligation AND the right to request a refund and complain. I'm here with the privelage allowed to me and EVERYONE on here to complain. I'm not a ****** cry baby. If you spent $500. on an item, took it home and then the company DROVE to your house took it and scratched it all to hell and then gave it back to you and said here you go all fixed, you'd be ****** pissed.

Ya I can choose to simply use the Omni S's but I liked using dual LRM pods in my side torso because I could carry more fire power instead of heavily relying on Lazers or Projectiles which I cant use. I can Only use LRM's and most of the time even those dont even work.

[Lindonius]

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 21 October 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

First of all, unless you werent aware and I'm sure you weren't...I'm a woman. Secondly If you buy something and its the wrong item, or you buy it as a gift for a friend and they dont like it, or you just buy it and its not to your liking you have the obligation AND the right to request a refund and complain. I'm here with the privelage allowed to me and EVERYONE on here to complain. I'm not a ****** cry baby. If you spent $500. on an item, took it home and then the company DROVE to your house took it and scratched it all to hell and then gave it back to you and said here you go all fixed, you'd be ****** pissed.

Ya I can choose to simply use the Omni S's but I liked using dual LRM pods in my side torso because I could carry more fire power instead of heavily relying on Lazers or Projectiles which I cant use. I can Only use LRM's and most of the time even those dont even work.

Online digital virtual items are not subjected to the same laws as real items. In law, you have absolutely no consumer protection whatsoever with regards to virtual items. Furthermore, as per the terms and conditions, PGI can make changes to any of the mechs in your mech bays that they like. If you're not happy with this, why did you click the "I accept the terms and conditions" box?

[NextGame]

I dislike all fixed equipment on clan mechs.

[Captain Stiffy]

FupDup, on 21 October 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

When we get to the point of changing the global construction rules in an effect to nerf one specific overpowered mech, I think it's time we recognize that the specific mech is the problem rather than the construction rules in play.

Translation: Nerf the Mad Cat with quirks focused on it only, don't change Omni rules just because of one mech.

maybe... gasp... it wasn't just for the mad cat!

[Xarian]

Powder, you can run a LRM20 on any of the TBR torso omnipods. Literally every single one. This will let you run 2 LRM20 on your TBR without Jump Jets. If you really want to use 4 missile pods, you can still do it with the TBR-S torsos - you can use any of the following combinations in each torso pod:

• LRM 20 + LRM 10 or lower
  
• LRM 15 or lower + LRM 15 or lower
  
• Artemis-LRM 15 + Artemis-LRM 10 or lower

You could use a setup like this, which is an extremely missile-heavy LRM 50 setup with lasers for backup weapons (1350 ammo), or you could use a setup like this, which uses a LRM 40 setup with both lasers and machineguns for backup weapons (1440 ammo)

I get that you're annoyed that they changed your mech, but it was for the overall good of the game - and you need to be able to accept that. Your mech is still extremely powerful. And your gameplay may improve if you start using and getting proficient with Jump Jets, too.

[Xarian]

Salvag3, on 21 October 2014 - 11:41 PM, said:

@ cSand : it's more about forcing equipment into a mech that it dosen't need, most people used the hard points for LRM racks and have no real use for JJs on a long range support mech. It's been in this thread before but it's worth saying again, the Timber wolfs biggest strength is it's versatility. I'm just not a fan of marketing the Clans as " cutting edge tech " And then having pod load outs that don't make sense. Putting one Missle hard point on them would have made a lot more sense than eating up 4 more slots and 4 more tons of free space. Clan mechs already suffer from a lack of customization options by not being able to change eng size, frame, armor type and hardware heat sinks and in the case of the adder a weapon. The more options you take away the more you force a " correct build " I enjoy options. And yes I can take one of the other pods, but I can no longer build a viable Missle support mech with out either giving up my point blank defense ( 4 med las ) or give be out of ammo much more quickly into the match. Yes I will surely find a new way to refit my TW for good LRM support but I will no longer be using theses pods on any build except my SRM brawler.

You can get 4 ER Med with any torsos - arms give up to 4 total, and there's a variant that lets you use one in the CT as well. So how are you giving up anything? You can put 2x LRM20 on any variant. If you require more missiles than that, you can get up to LRM 60 - you will give up a good deal of ammo if you use lasers on that, however. LRM 40 using 2x LRM20 or even 4x LRM10 is still viable as a missile support mech.

Also, if you're talking about versatility, why are you trying to turn the Timber Wolf into a LRM boat? It's set up as a multi-role mech; take a few LRMs but don't rely on them completely. Add lasers and/or machineguns, but don't rely on them completely either. You can even make psychotic FrankenMech builds that will work just fine if you're an octopus and can handle that many weapon groups at once.

[zortesh]

This was a very good mech, my favorite mech.... This lacks for ammo.. any any other variant i recreate has the same problem, so no more free wifi.

Im guessing the nerf was aimed at discouraging lrmboating a timber-wolf, since it doesn't effect srm builds, or anything else really, i wish we had some side torsos with just 2 missile hardpoints and no jumpjets or anything else fancy.

[Alistair Winter]

Collect a total of 0 sympathy points from mr. Winter.

The TBR-S should not be in this game to begin with. But they did introduce it to the game, and if it's the worst of all Mad Cat variants, I'm ok with that. It's still one of the best mechs in the game. The Timber Wolf isn't really a mech known for having jump jets, but in this game I think 90% of all Timber Wolves used to have jump jets before the patch. It's ridiculous. You may as well allow the Dire Wolf to have jump jets then.

Maybe we'll finally see some more Timber Wolves used the way it's supposed to be. A good allround heavy mech, with missiles, lasers and ballistics, capable of both short range and long range engagements. Not those PPC + gauss abominations or ballistics boats with a few medium lasers for backup.

The TBR was turning into a mirror of the CPLT-K2 fiasco - an energy platform suddenly only used for gauss and AC20s.

[Lily from animove]

Xarian, on 22 October 2014 - 12:38 AM, said:

Powder, you can run a LRM20 on any of the TBR torso omnipods. Literally every single one. This will let you run 2 LRM20 on your TBR without Jump Jets. If you really want to use 4 missile pods, you can still do it with the TBR-S torsos - you can use any of the following combinations in each torso pod:

• LRM 20 + LRM 10 or lower
  
• LRM 15 or lower + LRM 15 or lower
  
• Artemis-LRM 15 + Artemis-LRM 10 or lower

You could use a setup like this, which is an extremely missile-heavy LRM 50 setup with lasers for backup weapons (1350 ammo), or you could use a setup like this, which uses a LRM 40 setup with both lasers and machineguns for backup weapons (1440 ammo)


I get that you're annoyed that they changed your mech, but it was for the overall good of the game - and you need to be able to accept that. Your mech is still extremely powerful. And your gameplay may improve if you start using and getting proficient with Jump Jets, too.

4x lrm 10 is a worlds apart quality over 2 lrm 20. because half the stream length at double lrm density. which makes AMS penetration much better and negates the target time to escape. + lrm 10 have faster refire rate. They are an entirely different level of lrm effciency. Yte i have not figured out how to compensate that issue as well, probably going lrm 2x20 is the only solution, because I think that 4xlrm10 rakc was semi op anyways.

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 21 October 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

First of all, unless you werent aware and I'm sure you weren't...I'm a woman. Secondly If you buy something and its the wrong item, or you buy it as a gift for a friend and they dont like it, or you just buy it and its not to your liking you have the obligation AND the right to request a refund and complain. I'm here with the privelage allowed to me and EVERYONE on here to complain. I'm not a ****** cry baby. If you spent $500. on an item, took it home and then the company DROVE to your house took it and scratched it all to hell and then gave it back to you and said here you go all fixed, you'd be ****** pissed.

Ya I can choose to simply use the Omni S's but I liked using dual LRM pods in my side torso because I could carry more fire power instead of heavily relying on Lazers or Projectiles which I cant use. I can Only use LRM's and most of the time even those dont even work.

Well stick with your signature, bigger is better, take your dakka flak wolf and shoot all those flying timberwolves out of the air.

[XX Sulla XX]

The change was fine get a life :/

[WhoopieMonster]

Summoner has fixed JJ. All they have done is bring the Timberwolf and the Kitfox inline with it. All Clans with JJ will have them fixed. This change was advertised for at least a month. As soon as I found out about it I redesigned my mechs to include fixed JJ where I used the omnipods that were effected. That way I've gotten used to my new builds and the mobility granted by JJ while your still on the forums complaining about how they have ruined your favWolf builds.

I really don't see the issue.

[MoonfireSpam]

WHY THEY HAVE TO BALANCE MY REALZ MONEY MEK?!

Anyways thought you were going to quit cos no PvE or something.

Edited by MoonfireSpam, 22 October 2014 - 02:31 AM.

[Xarian]

Lily from animove, on 22 October 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

4x lrm 10 is a worlds apart quality over 2 lrm 20. because half the stream length at double lrm density. which makes AMS penetration much better and negates the target time to escape. + lrm 10 have faster refire rate. They are an entirely different level of lrm effciency. Yte i have not figured out how to compensate that issue as well, probably going lrm 2x20 is the only solution, because I think that 4xlrm10 rakc was semi op anyways.

The two setups have slightly different roles. The 4x LRM10 is better for a dedicated LRM mech, while the LRM20 is better for a skirmisher who is mixing in other energy weapons and needs better heat efficiency. And you can see why - the 4x LRM10 setup generates nearly 3x the heat per second!

You're definitely right about the 4x LRM10 being better in terms of keeping the missiles bunched together.
When looking at the numbers below, consider that the "burst" damage of the two - the total damage over one whole volley - is exactly the same. In practice, the 4xLRM10 will get you more damage because of the AMS issue and missile bunching, but if you're shooting at fat mechs without any AMS or cover (or if you're chasing someone at 200 meters who is out in an open area, which is a fairly common scenario for a Timber Wolf) then it doesn't matter as much.

4x LRM10 = 22 heat every 4 seconds (5.5 HPS) = 11.0 DPS = 4 crit slots = 10 tons = 4 hardpoints
2x LRM20 = 12 heat every 6 seconds (2.0 HPS) = 8.8 DPS = 8 crit slots = 10 tons = 2 hardpoints

Edited by Xarian, 22 October 2014 - 02:16 AM.

[Walluh]

It makes me feel good that while I play TBRs, I stay away from the true cheese builds, and kept my S not far from stock

[Asmudius Heng]

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 21 October 2014 - 11:42 PM, said:

First of all, unless you werent aware and I'm sure you weren't...I'm a woman.

OK ... and?

Quote

Secondly If you buy something and its the wrong item, or you buy it as a gift for a friend and they dont like it, or you just buy it and its not to your liking you have the obligation AND the right to request a refund and complain. I'm here with the privelage allowed to me and EVERYONE on here to complain. I'm not a ****** cry baby. If you spent $500. on an item, took it home and then the company DROVE to your house took it and scratched it all to hell and then gave it back to you and said here you go all fixed, you'd be ****** pissed.

Ya I can choose to simply use the Omni S's but I liked using dual LRM pods in my side torso because I could carry more fire power instead of heavily relying on Lazers or Projectiles which I cant use. I can Only use LRM's and most of the time even those dont even work.

You are very well aware that MWO is a game that goes through constant balance changes.

Should every single person go have a cry on the forums every time thier favouite thing gets changed?

Can i ask for a refund on my Raven3L beause they introduced HSR, many ECM counters, and nerfed the hell out of SSRMs? Oh they also made the legs EXTREMELY easy to hit.

HOW DARE THEY!!!!

I am with you i should RIOT over that. They changed a ride i really liked and i am a paying entitled customer ... they should refund me everything.

NO - that would be ********.

I have spend enough money with PGI and i have never asked for a refund or carried on like you have even though that have made terrible decision after terrible decision over and over.

Why? Because i can make suggestions like an adult and realise this game is not built just for me. Because i look at balance as an ecosystem with many interlocking parts. Because i know when i am driving something that is OP and i have no problem if it gets nerfed.

PGI have not personally come to attack you - they made a huge mistake giving the Madcat a JJ variant to begin with quite frankly but no one would have complained if they didnt.

The bottom line is people hate thier favourite thing being changed as we have seen time and time again and your rage filled OP was one of the most sickeningly self centered and ill informed bits of drivel i have seen on this forum ... and i have seen quite a bit of drivel here let me tell you.

So you have three choices.

1. Adapt and overcome
2. Request a refund but dont fill up the forums with garbage
3. Engage with the developers and community with logical debate about the said issue in hopes to get changes you feel are fair

I dont think you have done any of these things and i dont think you want to - you just want to vent your rage incoherently.

Edited by Asmudius Heng, 22 October 2014 - 02:44 PM.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 21 October 2014 - 06:35 PM, said:

While I'm sure EVERYONE is well aware of the new rediculous feature with fixed JJ's, to those who own clan mechs not many people seem to care. I read an earlier post that had ALOT of trolling, harrassment, and bullying towards 1 player but unfortunatly his post was removed while I was trying to reply.

So here I am calling out PGI on the second worst mistake EVER in the history of MWO, only decideing to make MWO a strictly PVP only game. Yes PGI isnt perfect, they are human, they need sleep just like we do. They arnt cyborgs or we would be in trouble. But they have more than 1 head, they commuincate and they have a wealth of information at their hands, including an enormous player community to rely on who (sometimes-not always, troll-badmouth, have their monthlys-period, social problems and cant figure what they really want from PGI) can help PGI. Yet here I am, trying to rationalize the brain dead idea to change a couple mechs into something that should never have been changed in the way they were. I dont agree with the patch, I never use JJ's even if I'm on the timberwolf. Not sure what other mech was nerfed with perminent JJ's since I just logged in to check 1 mech to confirm.

Not like I really should care what happens to the game but I care about my account. I paid for it, why shouldn't i if PGI is going to ruin something I was confortable with before. Why fix something that wasnt broke? Point is [redacted] the JJ's NO ONE USES THEM ON THE TIMBER! It totaly ruined the build I used to use on it before, no point in having omni LRMx2 on it since its useless now with the stupid JJ's taking up almost half the space.

Why would someone NOT take JJs on the Timber Wolf ?

Also, why are you LRM-ing in a Timber Wolf ? It's like using your Ferrari as a golf cart....

IMHO the fixed JJs are annoying, I agree, but do make it fair compared to the other Clan mechs.