125 replies to this topic

[hagak]

mindwarp, on 22 October 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

I've been making a lot more money with the new rewards. Running a trollmando - 3 LRM5, ML and ECM in the solo queue. The amount of bonuses racking up under my targeting reticule is getting distracting. Even in matches with sub 100 damage, I'm making 175k-200k a match. I honestly don't understand how people are making less money now, and I REALLY don't understand how people are only getting 30k a match. Even on losses I was clearing 70k. Hit and Run has to be my new favourite bonus.

And no, I'm not some super l33t mechwarrior. I'm adequate. Below average even. Absolutely terrible if all you care about is KDR (0.55 if you want to know).

The reason you are making money is cause of the LRM5s you have. You probably are getting a ton of flanking bonuses.

[Joseph Mallan]

Phashe, on 22 October 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Is this where we get the speach about how 'generous' MWO is with c-bills versus other F2P titles?

Bah. Still the top and only reason all my friends quit playing: takes to long to earn. And now it is worse? Ill have to try it this weekend i guess

LOL my players on TT played for YEARS without ever earning pay. The Command got all the Mechs and add them to new Lances or Companies as the CO decided.

[Shalune]

DarthRevis, on 22 October 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

That player did nothing but work for himself obviously....if you just stand next to a team mate and shoot what he shoots you get protection bonus. Hell i got bonus' last night while using a rock to shield myself from another ember as we duked it out, if you stick with the lance you get proximity bonus and lance formation bonus. He was doing Hit and run and just shooting, i see no Kills, Decent Dmg and some Assists....which if you look at the NEW REWARDS as they are listed really doesn't get you much profit. But he in NO WAY seems to have played the match trying to help his team.....

Scouting, Flanking, Protection Bonus, Lock Dmg Bonus are all what pays because they are associated with the TEAM aspect of this TEAM game. If you wanna be a cowboy and just try to outgun everyone and go alone you aren't gonna get a good pay out. I for one am GLAD this change was made.

HE got a few shots off on a Flank move, which more then likely also gave him the Hit and Run bonus and im sure the scouting bonus was achieved as he came around the corner during the same move and saw the enemy before he shot him. But still he was going for DMG and self made glory....if he just protected one or two team mates and stuck with his lance that bonus list would be 4x as long.

Any idea what mech he was in? Even class? Was also a 6 min game....not much time to earn anything in a stomp like that.

So what you're suggesting is that he should not be trying to support his team by maximizing damage, even though that's a very valid contribution. Instead we should try to limit how much damage we do and chase the new rewards even when it is not beneficial.


This one I can give you more direct info on. I was in a kit fox. I stayed with the team the entire game, and I got a number of the new bonuses for it. I stayed in cover of heavier mechs when it made sense, but did not glue myself to them because I have a much greater ability to peek and poke as a light. My lance was composed of other faster lights who smartly poked farther ahead than me. As a slow light I should not be alone at the front so I did not follow.

I did everything correctly to play as a team player without actively farming the new rewards. I had a very solid game and got a mediocre reward.

[DYSEQTA]

Feetwet, on 21 October 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

THIS HAS TO CHANGE!

Suck it up princess.

[mindwarp]

hagak, on 22 October 2014 - 08:07 AM, said:

The reason you are making money is cause of the LRM5s you have. You probably are getting a ton of flanking bonuses.

Not as many as you might think. Scouting, Hit and Run, Counter ECM, Protect Light and Protect Proximity are the big ones. The protect bonuses really rack up. Lance bonus is uncommon as a scout, and Flanking needs the LRMs to actually hit. The LRMS usually get AMS'd down, but they're really useful for making people move. Incoming Missile could be my LRM5, or hundreds of missiles, and any competent pilot moves when they get that warning.

2k for a Hit and Run is great. Makes skirmishing really rewarding.

[WarHippy]

DarthRevis, on 22 October 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

That player did nothing but work for himself obviously....if you just stand next to a team mate and shoot what he shoots you get protection bonus. Hell i got bonus' last night while using a rock to shield myself from another ember as we duked it out, if you stick with the lance you get proximity bonus and lance formation bonus. He was doing Hit and run and just shooting, i see no Kills, Decent Dmg and some Assists....which if you look at the NEW REWARDS as they are listed really doesn't get you much profit. But he in NO WAY seems to have played the match trying to help his team.....

Scouting, Flanking, Protection Bonus, Lock Dmg Bonus are all what pays because they are associated with the TEAM aspect of this TEAM game. If you wanna be a cowboy and just try to outgun everyone and go alone you aren't gonna get a good pay out. I for one am GLAD this change was made.

HE got a few shots off on a Flank move, which more then likely also gave him the Hit and Run bonus and im sure the scouting bonus was achieved as he came around the corner during the same move and saw the enemy before he shot him. But still he was going for DMG and self made glory....if he just protected one or two team mates and stuck with his lance that bonus list would be 4x as long.

Any idea what mech he was in? Even class? Was also a 6 min game....not much time to earn anything in a stomp like that.

Your entire post is nonsense. Just because he did damage, and got 7 assists, but none of the new rewards does not mean he was out for himself, nor does it mean he wasn't helping the team.

I don't know what the circumstances of his game were, but in a game I played being grouped up was not the best course of action for the team so I moved around to flank in an assault mech of all things. I ended up with 5 kills, 4 assists, and 875 damage, but I ended up with very few of these new rewards because I wasn't grouped up. However, by doing what I did I split the enemy teams focus which in turn protected teammates from being focused and allowed them to fight instead of hide. We won because we worked as a team, but I was punished because I apparently didn't help the team in the right way.

[hagak]

mindwarp, on 22 October 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

Not as many as you might think. Scouting, Hit and Run, Counter ECM, Protect Light and Protect Proximity are the big ones. The protect bonuses really rack up. Lance bonus is uncommon as a scout, and Flanking needs the LRMs to actually hit. The LRMS usually get AMS'd down, but they're really useful for making people move. Incoming Missile could be my LRM5, or hundreds of missiles, and any competent pilot moves when they get that warning.

2k for a Hit and Run is great. Makes skirmishing really rewarding.

Sorry the hit n run bonus is also much much easier with LRMs. Try the same thing but with a light mech and just lasers and I bet you will find the rewards are much lower.

[mindwarp]

For the damage dealers, have you even looked at the bonuses for a solo kill? Killing blow 4k, Kill most damage 5k, Solo kill 10k, Brawl 4.5k, Component destruction 2.3k. 25.8k before damage bonus and that's if you only destroy one component. Add in that you probably destroy two components takes it to 28.2k, plus maybe 300 damage to kill a mech adds another 6.3k taking you to 34.5k. That's a lot of C-Bills if you're really solo'ing enemy assault mechs. You can probably even get a saviour or defensive kill for another 4.5k.

Around 30-40k for actually genuinely going out and soloing and enemy mech? Yeah, that's not bad. And most of the people I see bragging about their skills say they do that several times a match. Add in other bonuses from assists, damage and winning and you should be making money. If you're just farming damage numbers and firing the last shot into crippled mechs you're not going to get much.

[Brody319]

mindwarp, on 22 October 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

For the damage dealers, have you even looked at the bonuses for a solo kill? Killing blow 4k, Kill most damage 5k, Solo kill 10k, Brawl 4.5k, Component destruction 2.3k. 25.8k before damage bonus and that's if you only destroy one component. Add in that you probably destroy two components takes it to 28.2k, plus maybe 300 damage to kill a mech adds another 6.3k taking you to 34.5k. That's a lot of C-Bills if you're really solo'ing enemy assault mechs. You can probably even get a saviour or defensive kill for another 4.5k.

Around 30-40k for actually genuinely going out and soloing and enemy mech? Yeah, that's not bad. And most of the people I see bragging about their skills say they do that several times a match. Add in other bonuses from assists, damage and winning and you should be making money. If you're just farming damage numbers and firing the last shot into crippled mechs you're not going to get much.

Cept you can get the most damage, killing blow, component destroyed, solo kill, and brawl in a single kill. Soloing is not what a team game should be encouraging. Either they risk it and go off to solo the enemy and risk getting swarmed and dying, or they sit back with their teammates and suffer the loss of c-bills.
When being a team player and getting assists and helping your team kill the enemy as is the objective, and you are getting paid significantly less than if you say, just ran double gauss jaeger and 1v1 no scopped the enemy, there is a problem with your TEAM game.

[King David Davion]

Its not just the C-Bills reward that got hit hard, the XP reward also terrible.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Feetwet, on 22 October 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

So are all of these matches in the solo queue? What are your results in the group queue...are they similar?

Tonight I am going to try my firestarter in the solo queue and see if my results improve. The solo queue has, in the past, given me better matches than the group queue. My FS is also fully mastered unlike my basic stormcrow which is my very first experience with clan mechs.

S

They were roughly the same, with maybe a slight edge going to group queue. I had a 401k match (lol) in my cheese whale with 900 damage, 1 kill, and 11 assists. The other cheese whale in my group had a 370k match with 700 damage, 3 kills, 8 assists. Our little group of 7 was focusing targets down like nobody's business.

I've had a few well placed UAVs rack in between 28-36k alone (which is not quite the cost of the consumable, but knowing where the enemy is is well worth the 4-12k CBills for the information).

Larger groups where everyone is together as a cohesive unit makes CBills fall from the sky.

If you got a small group, feel free to head over to some other TS servers like the NGNG, Comstar NA, Steiner Hub and MercStar servers. There are almost always groups going on MercStar and NGNG and it's not uncommon to see two 4-5 mans to combine into a single 8-10. Those larger groups are where the money is at.

If you don't have the TS info, feel free to PM me and I can get you a list of really good TSs to play on.

[Almond Brown]

Scratx, on 22 October 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

This is the big problem with the new system. It's calibrated to not give significantly more c-bills overall to the player base than it used to, but by allowing much higher reward swings (aka the good players getting more) it has to go rob Peter to pay Paul. In other words, the lower end loses out.

Unfortunately, the lower end is where people who aren't invested in the game start out.

The lower end needs an uplift far more than the higher end needs awesome rewards.

But, I admit I love getting good rewards for playing the game as it should be played. That's GOOD.

PGI's going to have a balancing tight-rope show here.

So the only solution for that, as you can't really split up a single reward, would be to have elo based Stipends. If your elo is below "some value" you auto get a 24% end game boost to earnings.

What does PGI tell the Champ, Founder, Hero and Premium owners? "Ahhh, no sweat eh lads. Your hard earned cash money is still being put to good use, just not for "you" anymore?

It is not a tight rope at all, it is an attempt to apply what the Community has screamed for since day one Role warfare. Well turns out many players don't do Role warfare but expect their cut of the Winning Cash Pie, even when they lose horribly and contribute SFA to the Team effort.

Anyone care to FIX that dilemma of a Tightrope for PGI? They want Money for Nothing and soon will demand their Chicks be for Free too.

[Revis Volek]

WarHippy, on 22 October 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

Your entire post is nonsense. Just because he did damage, and got 7 assists, but none of the new rewards does not mean he was out for himself, nor does it mean he wasn't helping the team.

I don't know what the circumstances of his game were, but in a game I played being grouped up was not the best course of action for the team so I moved around to flank in an assault mech of all things. I ended up with 5 kills, 4 assists, and 875 damage, but I ended up with very few of these new rewards because I wasn't grouped up. However, by doing what I did I split the enemy teams focus which in turn protected teammates from being focused and allowed them to fight instead of hide. We won because we worked as a team, but I was punished because I apparently didn't help the team in the right way.

My post is nonsense?

You went off and freelanced...and you got penalized for it. Doesn't matter that you won or got all the kills. Thats is NOT what this game supports is team work and coordination. Had you been shooting mechs other people were shooting at or even took the priority off one of your lights or mediums you would have gotten the rewards. So based of what you told me you engaged mechs on your own that really didnt directly benefit the team at the time, may have later im not here to say as i wasnt in the game and dont have any proof in front of me.The rewards dont lie....

Now im not saying this is THE SYSTEM it still needs some tweaking which will come im sure, but this is better then the latter by a long shot.

Shalune, on 22 October 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

So what you're suggesting is that he should not be trying to support his team by maximizing damage, even though that's a very valid contribution. Instead we should try to limit how much damage we do and chase the new rewards even when it is not beneficial.


This one I can give you more direct info on. I was in a kit fox. I stayed with the team the entire game, and I got a number of the new bonuses for it. I stayed in cover of heavier mechs when it made sense, but did not glue myself to them because I have a much greater ability to peek and poke as a light. My lance was composed of other faster lights who smartly poked farther ahead than me. As a slow light I should not be alone at the front so I did not follow.

I did everything correctly to play as a team player without actively farming the new rewards. I had a very solid game and got a mediocre reward.

Now this looks more like a complete game....You scouted, blew off components (which is the way to go in a light, killshots dont come very easy in all light mechs) which pay well and are easy to come by, looks like 5 kills/Assist you did the most DMG so you were shooting what teammates shot and even had good aim from what i can tell. Also some flanking moves, Multiple Hit and run rewards which means you were using cover and playing it like you should in a light mech. Also see Lance i formation bonus and protection bonus'.

If you cannot see the difference in these two games then maybe you need to record yourself and watch HOW you played them....Is day and night on the bonus screens. The second game is a complete and proper game, well done! That is in no way shape or form a BAD GAME in a light mech....100,000 cbills and 1,500 xp match will have you mastering mechs in no time. And you DO NOT even have premium time i dont know what you are so upset about...whats you AVG xp per match and cbills?

Edited by DarthRevis, 22 October 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[Mystere]

Folks, stop fighting like this guy and you should be fine:

[Brody319]

Mystere, on 22 October 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

Folks, stop fighting like this guy and you should be fine:

Actually fight like that guy. Because he did a lot of damage, and after all if you dont get 5+ most damage bonuses you are probably going to make a couple tens of thousands of c-bills less than if you say, stick with your team and just try to help them kill the enemy

[Almond Brown]

KraftySOT, on 22 October 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

Yeah, now is definitely better. Teamplay rewards instead of personal rewards.

Word is press R for rewards. LOL!

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

mindwarp, on 22 October 2014 - 08:39 AM, said:

For the damage dealers, have you even looked at the bonuses for a solo kill? Killing blow 4k, Kill most damage 5k, Solo kill 10k, Brawl 4.5k, Component destruction 2.3k. 25.8k before damage bonus and that's if you only destroy one component. Add in that you probably destroy two components takes it to 28.2k, plus maybe 300 damage to kill a mech adds another 6.3k taking you to 34.5k. That's a lot of C-Bills if you're really solo'ing enemy assault mechs. You can probably even get a saviour or defensive kill for another 4.5k.

Around 30-40k for actually genuinely going out and soloing and enemy mech? Yeah, that's not bad. And most of the people I see bragging about their skills say they do that several times a match. Add in other bonuses from assists, damage and winning and you should be making money. If you're just farming damage numbers and firing the last shot into crippled mechs you're not going to get much.

I can sit back in my Cheesewhale with another Cheesewhale plinking away at targets. Snag a kill or two, damage 8 to 11 enemy mechs, and clear 700 damage and make 200+k before the bonuses. All because I sat with another whale, shot what he shot, shot what our brawlers shot, shot what our LRM boats shot, and stayed near my lance.

Sure, those rewards for solo killing another mech should be high. Because the odds are, he wasn't alone because his lance realizes the bonuses are better for team play.

[km1710]

new rewards suck, I can gain a decent amount of money only by playing LRM boats

I support in a light (ECM, AMS, etc.) and get nothing
I skirmish in a medium and get nothing
I cover the assaults with the heavy and get nothing
I brawl in assaults and get a little bit more than nothing

I stay in formation, I am aware of my surroundings, cover and try to flank, but I gain a lot less money than before

[Feetwet]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 22 October 2014 - 08:48 AM, said:

They were roughly the same, with maybe a slight edge going to group queue. I had a 401k match (lol) in my cheese whale with 900 damage, 1 kill, and 11 assists. The other cheese whale in my group had a 370k match with 700 damage, 3 kills, 8 assists. Our little group of 7 was focusing targets down like nobody's business.

I've had a few well placed UAVs rack in between 28-36k alone (which is not quite the cost of the consumable, but knowing where the enemy is is well worth the 4-12k CBills for the information).

Larger groups where everyone is together as a cohesive unit makes CBills fall from the sky.

If you got a small group, feel free to head over to some other TS servers like the NGNG, Comstar NA, Steiner Hub and MercStar servers. There are almost always groups going on MercStar and NGNG and it's not uncommon to see two 4-5 mans to combine into a single 8-10. Those larger groups are where the money is at.

If you don't have the TS info, feel free to PM me and I can get you a list of really good TSs to play on.

Thanks for the response. Not really interested in branching out beyond my little group but I do appreciate the input.

S

[Joseph Mallan]

Brody319, on 22 October 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

Cept you can get the most damage, killing blow, component destroyed, solo kill, and brawl in a single kill. Soloing is not what a team game should be encouraging. Either they risk it and go off to solo the enemy and risk getting swarmed and dying, or they sit back with their teammates and suffer the loss of c-bills.
When being a team player and getting assists and helping your team kill the enemy as is the objective, and you are getting paid significantly less than if you say, just ran double gauss jaeger and 1v1 no scopped the enemy, there is a problem with your TEAM game.

Trust me I get paid very nicely for helping my team win... Its when I die impotently that I don't get a good pay.

km1710, on 22 October 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

new rewards suck, I can gain a decent amount of money only by playing LRM boats

I support in a light (ECM, AMS, etc.) and get nothing
I skirmish in a medium and get nothing
I cover the assaults with the heavy and get nothing
I brawl in assaults and get a little bit more than nothing

I stay in formation, I am aware of my surroundings, cover and try to flank, but I gain a lot less money than before

Then you did something wrong.