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The Mech That Really Needs A Quirk Pass


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#21 NovaFury

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:44 AM

View PostTriordinant, on 23 October 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

As far as I know, Quirks were created so that they could buff IS 'mechs instead of nerfing Clan 'mechs even more (remember their goal is for an all-IS team to have an even chance of beating an all-Clan team in a 12 vs 12 match). Following this logic, Clan 'mechs would never get Quirks.


Pretty much this, exactly. They know that the only way they'll achieve this is by making IS weapons individually superior to clan weapons in almost every way, because they weigh more and take more slots.

Ergo, they're doing just that by giving massive bonuses to certain IS mechs for using certain weapons.

So the Nova won't be getting any good quirks, ever.

Edited by NovaFury, 23 October 2014 - 10:46 AM.


#22 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 12:21 AM

lies

#23 Lily from animove

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:33 AM

View PostLordKnightFandragon, on 23 October 2014 - 04:35 AM, said:



Plus its a 50t mech with the speed of a 75t.......

Clans should get a universal quirk of locked heatsinks give 10% more heat dissipation...fo sho...idk how many the Nova has locked on it, but it would help the Whorehawk alot.


that would buff the TBR laserboats moe than the Nova, due to having 5 ectra DHS in the engine.

View Postarkanis, on 23 October 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:


So you want a nova that performs as a timber instead of a role for it.


No but a mech should perform in a line of similar effort vs reward. Sure TBR cna do more andgives more rewards. It's at leats 50% more mech. But if you take SCR vs a Nova, in which I both can achieve goood matches, it is still in no relation to each other.

SCR is like playing A mode tetris at level 5
while Nova is B mode height 5 at level 9.

YOu start at a server disadvantage and have to work you butt off as hell to bring it to the same success. and thats why Nova feels not good and doesn't gets much love from many people. relax and get cbills, or work painful and get maybe the same.

#24 Johnny Z

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:37 AM

I think the Op should head back to piloting the Cheese Whale. I think it has clouded his judgement. :)

#25 Johnny Z

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:44 AM

View PostNovaFury, on 23 October 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:


Pretty much this, exactly. They know that the only way they'll achieve this is by making IS weapons individually superior to clan weapons in almost every way, because they weigh more and take more slots.

Ergo, they're doing just that by giving massive bonuses to certain IS mechs for using certain weapons.

So the Nova won't be getting any good quirks, ever.


Not only do IS weapons weigh more and take up more space, they have less range and do less damage. Lets get real here. Cause you know, futuristic robots of the future is serious stuff.


Edited by Johnny Z, 24 October 2014 - 02:44 AM.


#26 Alistair Winter

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:44 AM

View PostBrody319, on 23 October 2014 - 12:39 AM, said:

Is the nova.
They should look into giving it some quirks with the IS mechs.
Runs hot as hell itself, and is forced into energy focused builds.
I've seen one or two ballistics, but it doesn't help enough. You alpha you die in most cases, and when you are trying to kill the enemy, that's a huge pain in the ass for a medium. Also its hit boxes need some work. Its got a snoz like the dragon but with less armor. Give it a CT boost, and a decreased heat generation for medium lasers.

I'd be surprised if it's not coming soon-ish.

View PostSaltBeef, on 23 October 2014 - 01:45 AM, said:

Suckoner may be worse. This mech is in dire need of Endo steel.

Not at all. The Summoner looks bad when you compare it to the Timber Wolf, but there are very few Inner Sphere heavy mechs that I'm afraid to engage in a 1:1 duel, when I'm in my Summoner. Hell, if I'm boating SRMs with Artemis, there aren't a lot of IS assault mechs I'm afraid of either.

However, can the same be said about the Nova? Not at all. When I'm in my Nova, I have to be far more careful about which Inner Sphere medium mechs I go duelling with.

#27 Pale Jackal

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:53 AM

View Postarkanis, on 23 October 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:


So you want a nova that performs as a timber instead of a role for it.


I want both 'mechs to be equally useful. Their uses can be different.

#28 Johnny Z

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 02:59 AM

The quirks/characteristics that are on the way, will hopefully bring IS mechs on par with the Clan mechs, but on a mech by mech and weapon by weapon basis.

This is perfectly in line with how Mechwarrior was meant to be with Clan mechs being called Omni mechs after all.... and the IS mechs not having the Omni mechs strengths and versatility.

Clan Pilots may as well get ready to up their game, because its going to be alot tougher vrs IS mechs than it has been in the past. Complain about it for entertainment or what ever but dont make Clans look bad because they are supposed to be good pilots and you would be ruining that virtual image. :) No fun for us IS pilots to be spanking a bunch of guys whining instead of making the most of their mechs.

#29 Celthora

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 03:05 AM

Medium laser range: +10%
Medium laser cooldown: +20%
Medium laser heat gen: -20%
Rate of heat loss: +10%

Job's done.

#30 Lily from animove

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 03:15 AM

View PostCelthora, on 24 October 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

Medium laser range: +10%
Medium laser cooldown: +20%
Medium laser heat gen: -20%
Rate of heat loss: +10%

Job's done.


No sry, there is no need for more laser range, And 20% heatgen together with 10% more heat dissipation would be definately too much.

The nova needs realistic quirks dealing with the downsides of the mech. One is heat of course, but I think -15% heat to CERML and CMPL is definately maximum buff it should get.

Yet it suffers fom its speed, because its the least agile of all clanmechs up to 75t. Even including Wave 2 clanners. It is at best as good as the other heavies, but yet suffers most form horrible geometry. Yes it looks epic, but in a mostly Shooter based game, this gemetry is just suicide. Therefore it needs more agility. Buffing genreal speed via quirks feels not okish and is a bit a rulebreaker. Buffing acceleration and break speed that would help to deal with the downside, probably also some twist rates.

like:
CERML + CERPL heat generation -15%
break efficiency +10%
acceleration +10%
turn speed +5%
Torso twist speed +5%

View PostJohnny Z, on 24 October 2014 - 02:59 AM, said:


Clan Pilots may as well get ready to up their game, because its going to be alot tougher vrs IS mechs than it has been in the past. Complain about it for entertainment or what ever but dont make Clans look bad because they are supposed to be good pilots and you would be ruining that virtual image. :) No fun for us IS pilots to be spanking a bunch of guys whining instead of making the most of their mechs.


they will just switch even more to scr, TBR, and DW's. Especially now that SCR is available for C bills. and even vene horribly more when TBR will be out for C-bills.

Edited by Lily from animove, 24 October 2014 - 03:18 AM.


#31 Celthora

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 03:59 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 24 October 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:


No sry,


Have you seen incoming HBK-4G quirks? They are increasing the main weapon attributes by 25%, and even secondary weapon's range&heat by 15%. Although Nova needs more and urgent buffs than Hunchback; in my example i wrote lower amounts.

About agiliy, no, since it has a huge hardpoint advantage, you cant expect it to be as agile as its chasis. When game gives something to a mech, it takes another thing. This is how balance works. So it should be a bit slow, at a cost of having lots of hardpoints and high damage.

Edited by Celthora, 24 October 2014 - 04:02 AM.


#32 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:38 AM

Mobility isn't a problem with the Nova, especially now with JJ's working again, its quite nimble.

Problem is, and has been heat on the only weapons the Nova can really field, the ERML/ERMPL and smalls.

#33 Lily from animove

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:37 AM

View PostCelthora, on 24 October 2014 - 03:59 AM, said:


Have you seen incoming HBK-4G quirks? They are increasing the main weapon attributes by 25%, and even secondary weapon's range&heat by 15%. Although Nova needs more and urgent buffs than Hunchback; in my example i wrote lower amounts.

About agiliy, no, since it has a huge hardpoint advantage, you cant expect it to be as agile as its chasis. When game gives something to a mech, it takes another thing. This is how balance works. So it should be a bit slow, at a cost of having lots of hardpoints and high damage.


Thats ebcause its one o many weapons, on the Nova the buff would exponentiall make the mech better because its working on the base of this very oen weapon. And your hardpoint speed balance is hardly true, because this is not done for any of the other mechs. Heat is already a balance for many E hardpoints because its the ressource E weapons have to use. Mots ballistic boats sacrifice speed for Firepower because their source(firepoer) comes from size and ammo. And making speed the "counte" to balance a medium mech which every heavy + mech can cripple with a single alpha is the bet way to balance it with a cleanign women, because thats the Job the Nova gets in the hangar.

View PostMister D, on 24 October 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Mobility isn't a problem with the Nova, especially now with JJ's working again, its quite nimble.

Problem is, and has been heat on the only weapons the Nova can really field, the ERML/ERMPL and smalls.


No heat is fine when the nova prime can fire both arms after eahc other and stays not overheated in stock non skilled build. Then we have heatwise a working stock mech. Thats enough, so not much heat tweak needed.

The true Problem is the mobility. In an environment where people have awarness and a decent reaction time you will always hit a nova. It can not do the hit and run coverpopping that the Stormcrow does. This si caused by beign slow in comparison AND having the worst hitboxes. This makes the time of exposue a lot higher than for other mechs, and its big size will also mae sure no one can overlooked by accident.
And JJ's haven't changed much, tbh we got a bit more height for the sacrifice of lenght, which was awefull, many simple jumps, like over the canyon don't work anymore. I don't need to jump 25m in height the old JJ's were better in terms of accessable areas.
And that is exactly what makes playing vs a Nova quite easy. You can abuse the Nova characteristics to land shots on the novas nose, while restricting him a line of fire. Most maps easily grant you either the corners and tight passages for this, or the hill for the low slung arms to be useless.

The point of the Nova would be hit to fire the lasers and retreat for cooldown. But currently this is lacking due to the mobility the mech has. What would your heat tweak do? sustain more fire which you can't use because everyone shooting at you is a serious issue for you. While in a SCR your hotboxes are a wet dream I ran though a pack of 5 lords firing at me and I survived astounishing long, while the nova probably would have ben a one pop wonder. An since the firepower of the nova is not enough to take out a mech efficiently fast, all the cooldown would not help when you die too fast. And all the Nova's I came across didn't last long.

#34 Nightmare1

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 07:10 AM

Novas and Summoners...

They lay awake at night, crying softly into their pillows as they hope that, one day, they too may be loved...

#35 Sergeant Random

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 07:41 AM

Because 12 x 7 = 84 damage in less than 3 seconds at 400 meters needs a buff?

No one can find a use for it?

Two Timberwolves were standing off and I was to the side in my Nova Prime. I stripped one side torso of the opposing TBR and the friendly TBR ripped the torso off. Guess who won the standoff?

Excellent burst damage. 12 lasers deal twice as much damage twice as fast as 6 will. You also heat up as fast. It is math.

Little room for error. Needs trigger discipline and wise weapon group settings.

Or Maybe the Nova felt bad all this time because of the server settings laser hitreg bug (look for Russ's post).

What is the problem again?

#36 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:15 AM

View PostSergeant Random, on 24 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Because 12 x 7 = 84 damage in less than 3 seconds at 400 meters needs a buff?

No one can find a use for it?


Oh yes, because we all want to blow our load and spend the next 2 minutes cooling down until we can fire again..
smooth.

#37 Brody319

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:34 AM

View PostSergeant Random, on 24 October 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Because 12 x 7 = 84 damage in less than 3 seconds at 400 meters needs a buff?

No one can find a use for it?

Two Timberwolves were standing off and I was to the side in my Nova Prime. I stripped one side torso of the opposing TBR and the friendly TBR ripped the torso off. Guess who won the standoff?

Excellent burst damage. 12 lasers deal twice as much damage twice as fast as 6 will. You also heat up as fast. It is math.

Little room for error. Needs trigger discipline and wise weapon group settings.

Or Maybe the Nova felt bad all this time because of the server settings laser hitreg bug (look for Russ's post).

What is the problem again?


Because stock build will core itself if it alphas even on cold maps?
I mean the TImberwolf can only really mount as many lasers as one of the thing's arms so the timberwolf isnt really a good reason for the heat nerf on medium lasers. The nova was the reason clan medium lasers got higher heat penalties, It could alpha and ruin a lot of people's days, but after the patch the nova became just a garbage mech. They have it as a trial, go grab it and try to alpha on frozen city or alphine peaks and see what happens.

#38 Jetfire

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

I sometimes wonder how people think the nova is so bad, I regularly post 800+ damage rounds in the prime variant stock. It is very good at what it does if you pilot it like it demands to be piloted. It's an AC40 Jager on each arm with huge range for pete's sake. Stop Alpha, treat each arm like a complete mech.

#39 Lykaon

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:56 AM

View PostNovaFury, on 23 October 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

Silly Brody, clan mechs aren't allowed to get any love.



I am guessing we will see I.S. mechs get a quirks pass and some time in live play before we see any significant Clan mech quirks.

#40 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:59 AM

View PostLily from animove, on 24 October 2014 - 02:33 AM, said:


that would buff the TBR laserboats moe than the Nova, due to having 5 ectra DHS in the engine.



Good, the Timberwolf can get the benefit of 10% more heat dissipation and take the Warhawk's 3E arm +15% energy cooldown.....





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