67 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Yoseful Mallad, on 25 October 2014 - 06:41 AM, said:

I mean why can't people play a game as a team and HELP each other win?

I played a game and in the same game, ran into two players that were in Novas and sporting all Tag lasers. This is ******* ******** and there is no need for gameplay like this. This isn't how Mechwarrior should be played or allowed to be played.

While these two were obviously trying to pad their bonuses though a loop hole that PGI has allowed on specialty equipment that should not be allowed to be carried in multiples, this also hurts the team these people play on, as they are not helping their team by selfishly farming for themselves. PGI needs to step in and correct this soon. I've already made the suggestion to Russ on this problem.

All equipment like NARC, TAP, BAP and so on should have a specialty slot on "only" variants of mech that are meant to carry them. And just like ECM, these mechs should not be allowed to boat this equipment.

PGI... Please fix this.

An easy fix would be to not allow mechs like that out of the Bay. Like Mechs without an engine.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 25 October 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

You get that multiple tag lasers do not reward you multiple times, right? That 12 TAG's are equal to one for the bonus?

And equipment like Medium Lasers should only go in Medium Laser slots, etc.

TAG is not some overpowered monstrousity, and your suggestion here is absurd. ECM is limited because ECM is a Jesus Box that would be on every single mech everywhere, but TAG is not. And BAP? Really? Can't have people mounting BAP modules...

Good lord, man.

I get being pissed at the guy who dropped with 12 TAG lasers (you can actually mount 13) because he may as well have disconnected, but don't assume he's exploiting something. If it wasn't 12 TAG lasers, it would be something else ridiculous and useless.

You can't force a troll to be useful, and that's what he's doing: trolling you.

Attempts to try don't fix anything, and hurt legitimate things.

i understand the complaint Shark. Folks who are purposely gaming the system. You don't go into a warzone unequipped to fight. Why would you do it in a game? 32 years of gaming I have not done anything that obviously immature... I have had a Gnome cleric pee in a basin of unholy water, but since I was playing a Gnome Cleric for Garl Glittergold it fit!

[Mystere]

Wiley Coyote, on 25 October 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Isn't he the guy that has the magic box I've seen mentioned on the forums?

Jesus is a magician? In a game that's supposed to be simulating war in the 31st century?

[Joseph Mallan]

Wiley Coyote, on 25 October 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Isn't he the guy that has the magic box I've seen mentioned on the forums?

[o0Marduk0o]

AntleredCormorant, on 25 October 2014 - 07:35 AM, said:

I agree that taking more than one TAG should not stack & is clearly an exploit. If you've got the space and want to make sure you don't lose one with your arm or something, fine, but you should only get the bonus for one of them. Ditto for NARC & BAP.

DO YOU get the bonus for all of them? Is it confirmed?

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2014 - 08:26 AM, said:

i understand the complaint Shark. Folks who are purposely gaming the system. You don't go into a warzone unequipped to fight. Why would you do it in a game? 32 years of gaming I have not done anything that obviously immature... I have had a Gnome cleric pee in a basin of unholy water, but since I was playing a Gnome Cleric for Garl Glittergold it fit!

Yup. As I said, the complaint was valid - having two players on your team who are obviously just trolling basically throws the match.

What I took issue with was the knee-jerk "fixes" proposed (hardlocking TAG, NARC and even BAP to specific chassis) - those would cause real harm, and not fix the problem.. His problem is that he had two trolls in the match who didn't want to contribute. You can't balance the game around that.

You CAN report them - taking a mech with no legit weapons could be seen as non-engagement (its clearly against the spirit of the CoC after all). But even of not that, they could and would take all sorts of useless builds and not contribute anyways. Trolls will be trolls.

o0Marduk0o, on 25 October 2014 - 08:33 AM, said:

DO YOU get the bonus for all of them? Is it confirmed?

No, its not confirmed. I haven't tested it with the new reward system, but you did not gain a bonus for multiple tags before and the basic tag reward is the same as it used to be.

Housed just assumed they where doing it to farm cbills. Far more likely they were just trolling. You can find videos of 13 tag laser Novas on YouTube, and could from day one. Before that, it was 9 TAG hbk-4p's.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 25 October 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Yup. As I said, the complaint was valid - having two players on your team who are obviously just trolling basically throws the match.

What I took issue with was the knee-jerk "fixes" proposed (hardlocking TAG, NARC and even BAP to specific chassis) - those would cause real harm, and not fix the problem.. His problem is that he had two trolls in the match who didn't want to contribute. You can't balance the game around that.

You CAN report them - taking a mech with no legit weapons could be seen as non-engagement (its clearly against the spirit of the CoC after all). But even of not that, they could and would take all sorts of useless builds and not contribute anyways. Trolls will be trolls.

Except there is this In universe!

Quote

• OTT-7K The -7K Ostscout replaces the Medium Laser with the TAG laser designator, sacrificing its limited offensive capability to allow it to designate targets for Arrow IV artillery missiles. Otherwise, the -7K Ostscout is identical to the 7J model. BV (1.0) = 372, BV (2.0) = 484^[7]

Zero Weapons! ZERO. I know and I agree with your feelings BUT there is a precedent in Universe for a Mech with no weapons.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 25 October 2014 - 08:56 AM.

[Nemesis Duck]

It doesn't happen often and it's not the end of the world if one match goes sideways.

[Wintersdark]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Except there is this In universe!
Zero Weapons! ZERO. I know and I agree with your feelings BUT there is a precedent in Universe for a Mech with no weapons.

Sure. In Battletech, where there are Arrow IV artillery missiles that need spotting. If we had sufficiently valid noncombat roles, that would apply here too. I wouldn't object to a pure spotter if he was legitimately contributing after all... But a 13 tag Nova is not doing that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wintersdark, on 25 October 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

Sure. In Battletech, where there are Arrow IV artillery missiles that need spotting. If we had sufficiently valid noncombat roles, that would apply here too. I wouldn't object to a pure spotter if he was legitimately contributing after all... But a 13 tag Nova is not doing that.

No a 13 TAG Nova is being an ******. But a weaponless Mech is not unheard of.

[Joe Mallad]

sneeking, on 25 October 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

am I not permitted to have fun in crazy builds and throw all care of winning out the window in solo que ?

oh man

drop in groups if it matters so much.

if I dropped in a group id behave differently.

i did drop in a group. Me and 3 others drops in as a lance. But we should not have to be penalized because 2 guys on our team "want to have fun" and not contribute to the team. People are not doing this just to have fun, they are doing this to farm. I'm not asking PGI to restrict weapons or modules or make hard point sizes and so on. But if its fair that ECM is variant specific on only on a select few mechs, I think its only fair that this other specialty equipment (TAG, BAP, NARC and so on... Get the same treatment, to stop people from abusing it.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 25 October 2014 - 09:47 AM.

[o0Marduk0o]

So about what we are discussing here without any proof of an exploit?
They are trolling and not helping their team, ok. Report them if they are doing it more than once.
It would be a major issue if they get more TAG bonus than normal.

[3xnihilo]

Unless something has changed you cannot drop without at least one damage dealing weapon. Also, multiple tags have never stacked bonuses before. as someone else mentioned earlier small lasers are red too and 12 smal lasers is a common build on novas. Or they really were trolling and the op should play the lottery because he odds of dropping into match with 2 novas trolling the same way in a pug has got to be very rare.

Edit: didn't see you were in group que. That would explain 2 teammates being idiots together.

Edited by 3xnihilo, 25 October 2014 - 09:32 AM.

[Kirkland Langue]

Yup, just an example of the reason that I gave for why PGI should have kept the reward system simple: Vet learn to game the system to farm credits - without actually assisting their team.

It was certain that some exploit would be found - because of the number of niche ways to make credits. But whatever, I say more power to these Nova pilots - it isn't as though their increased earnings impact anyone else' earnings - and they are actually contributing more (as a target in the middle of a melee) than players that wander off and run away from battles, or who charge in and die before the rest of their team gets even close.

[Golden Vulf]

What the hell, restricting BAP to only certain chasis? You are broken in the head if you think that is a good idea. It's one of the only defenses to protect your team from lag armor invincible lights.

[Joe Mallad]

To those saying I'm overreacting... I don't have a problem with someone using a TAG or NARC and doing their job. If I have a TAG or NARC, every target I hit, I get credit for and pad my bonus a bit. That's fine, but people are getting more "in some way" by taking multiples. Otherwise, you wouldn't have players in other threads "suggesting to others" to take multiple TAG OR NARC to pad your bonuses. And my biggest issue with it is, while some ass is running around doing this, regardless if it works or not... He's potentially throwing the game for your team because he's not directly helping.

If there was a mech type in game that was designated to JUST be a spotter or whatever and had no way to mount offensive equipment, than there would be a place for it "in some cases". But even mechs like this that were used like this in BT/MW never ran around with more than 1 of these types if equipment.

I'm sorry, I don't complain about much but this kind of needless boating of equipment (overpowered or not, just for a laugh or not) is just not at all needed. If people are that board as one guy said... How about go play something else that might be more entertaining to you? Just a thought.

[Joseph Mallan]

Yoseful Mallad, on 25 October 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

To those saying I'm overreacting... I don't have a problem with someone using a TAG or NARC and doing their job. If I have a TAG or NARC, every target I hit, I get credit for and pad my bonus a bit. That's fine, but people are getting more "in some way" by taking multiples. Otherwise, you wouldn't have players in other threads "suggesting to others" to take multiple TAG OR NARC to pad your bonuses. And my biggest issue with it is, while some ass is running around doing this, regardless if it works or not... He's potentially throwing the game for your team because he's not directly helping.

If there was a mech type in game that was designated to JUST be a spotter or whatever and had no way to mount offensive equipment, than there would be a place for it "in some cases". But even mechs like this that were used like this in BT/MW never ran around with more than 1 of these types if equipment.

I'm sorry, I don't complain about much but this kind of needless boating of equipment (overpowered or not, just for a laugh or not) is just not at all needed. If people are that board as one guy said... How about go play something else that might be more entertaining to you? Just a thought.

Don't fret it Yoseph, I was only saying there is a non weapon toting Mech in Universe. Not because I want to dissuade you from your rightful angst,but just to be fair/impartial on the issue. Its a crap thing to do to try to play the system. But that is only my opinion.

[Joe Mallad]

Golden Vulf, on 25 October 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

What the hell, restricting BAP to only certain chasis? You are broken in the head if you think that is a good idea. It's one of the only defenses to protect your team from lag armor invincible lights.

thats an issue PGI needs to correct with lag and speed on lights. Once that is corrected, people should have no issue taking out faster lighter "big bad mean lag mech".

I never use BAP and I don't have any issue killing lights, lag or not.

[ChapeL]

Picking up on the "what's wrong with people?" line... EVERY match I was in so far today has seen my team bicker and have "keyboard duels" over this and that, all the while giving the enemy team mostly free range of the map to do as they pleased.

I don't get this crap when I play in the dead of night or very early in the morning, is this all that is to be expected of the "weekend crowd" ?

On the subject at hand... 2 Novas with nothing but TAG... they are useless already, blow their arms off and leave them twisting in the wind.

[Joe Mallad]

Joseph Mallan, on 25 October 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Don't fret it Yoseph, I was only saying there is a non weapon toting Mech in Universe. Not because I want to dissuade you from your rightful angst,but just to be fair/impartial on the issue. Its a crap thing to do to try to play the system. But that is only my opinion.

oh I get what you're saying bud and I wasn't arguing back with you. I completely understand that there are weaponless mech in the BT/MW universe. And they have roles. And their roles are to help their units/teams. Not try and see if they can farm or "have fun" at the units expense or death.