68 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

I see the Dire Noskills (2Gauss 2ERPPC) top the list. Not surprised when one alpha kills over half the mech if it gets a CT or ST. Waddle waddle kill. waddle waddle ignore damage kill. Ignore damage waddle waddle kill.

In TT, the Medium mech was supposed to be the workhorse, not the laughing stock. Even lights now make them a joke. Why should any House military have anything other than Jenners out there? 35 tons that outperform most assaults and all but two heavies? Seems to me that the Inner Sphere has no reason to waste 100 tons on any assaults when the performance is worse than that of a Jenners is as good if not better. Wouldn't 2 Jenners for the same or less tonnage be better?

Ah, the practical outcome of broken game rules. Maybe PGI should start looking at rolling back so many nerfs and buffs and return lights to the glass coffins they once were and reward the pilots appropriately for their bravery... since 3 are forced to be in each team.

[Murphy7]

Re: LRM spam - It was prevalent but the effectiveness is limited - great for getting to 140 - 170 score averages if you can get 10-12 assists and 600 ish damage regularly. Bad for kills, but while ECM was spotty with so much variety in chassis selection, the player-base behavior slowed down LRM boats by having too many LRMs, not enough spotters/brawlers.

Re: Maddogs - two things the Mad Dogs can do really well - LRM boat as seen above & carry enough beam firepower to punch through a few of their own kills; SRM boat to alpha strike with terrifying force. I am not at all surprised that Mad Dogs showed as strongly as they have.

[xe N on]

The problem of the scoring system, the tournament one and the normal Cbill/Xp rewards is: they are measured in individual terms. This lead to a individual play style, where everyone wants to score highest based on kill/damage.

The goal however should be to score as a team. Reward should not be given as result of individual scores but as team based on the team score (kills/damage) for all players in a team equally.

Edited by xe N on, 27 October 2014 - 09:10 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Murphy7, on 27 October 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

Re: LRM spam - It was prevalent but the effectiveness is limited - great for getting to 140 - 170 score averages if you can get 10-12 assists and 600 ish damage regularly. Bad for kills, but while ECM was spotty with so much variety in chassis selection, the player-base behavior slowed down LRM boats by having too many LRMs, not enough spotters/brawlers.

Re: Maddogs - two things the Mad Dogs can do really well - LRM boat as seen above & carry enough beam firepower to punch through a few of their own kills; SRM boat to alpha strike with terrifying force. I am not at all surprised that Mad Dogs showed as strongly as they have.

Can't boat LRMs effectively anymore thanks to the ghost heat nerf the LRM5's got and inclusion with them in all LRM packs. Maybe we can do that and say all ballistic weapons ghost heat after 2 now regardless of which one it is. that'd be fun.

[Murphy7]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 09:13 AM, said:

Can't boat LRMs effectively anymore thanks to the ghost heat nerf the LRM5's got and inclusion with them in all LRM packs. Maybe we can do that and say all ballistic weapons ghost heat after 2 now regardless of which one it is. that'd be fun.

I didn't experience a serious slowdown in LRM boating in the matches I was a part of - could be my terrible ELO, could be the lure of indirect damage, who knows. Ghost heat does not really slow down boating - lack of spotting &/or ECM slows down LRM rain.

[Kjudoon]

Murphy7, on 27 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

I didn't experience a serious slowdown in LRM boating in the matches I was a part of - could be my terrible ELO, could be the lure of indirect damage, who knows. Ghost heat does not really slow down boating - lack of spotting &/or ECM slows down LRM rain.

When I took my mechs out for test runs, I normally could get 40LRMs off for 5-6 salvos before overheating with builds. Suddenly, 2 shots with 4 launchers and I was already borderline overheating. That's with a pair of LRM15s and 5s. My weight of fire was cut down by almost 60% as compared to what I could do before with that configuration. Others laughed at me to until I said you go try your own builds and see what happens. Every person I've asked that to has noticed a significant drop if they were not already fighting ghost heat from their build before. Remember, this hurts mechs that use LRM5s the most.

[Lily from animove]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 08:53 AM, said:

I see the Dire Noskills (2Gauss 2ERPPC) top the list. Not surprised when one alpha kills over half the mech if it gets a CT or ST. Waddle waddle kill. waddle waddle ignore damage kill. Ignore damage waddle waddle kill.

In TT, the Medium mech was supposed to be the workhorse, not the laughing stock. Even lights now make them a joke. Why should any House military have anything other than Jenners out there? 35 tons that outperform most assaults and all but two heavies? Seems to me that the Inner Sphere has no reason to waste 100 tons on any assaults when the performance is worse than that of a Jenners is as good if not better. Wouldn't 2 Jenners for the same or less tonnage be better?

Ah, the practical outcome of broken game rules. Maybe PGI should start looking at rolling back so many nerfs and buffs and return lights to the glass coffins they once were and reward the pilots appropriately for their bravery... since 3 are forced to be in each team.

because there aren't enough factories producing jenners. But honestly, mediums are too slow, quite too fat, and with the current damage in alphas, they are often twi hots by the big mechs. They are more fragile than a strandard lights since lights can dodge by speed (and bad hitreg). thast quite a reason when havign the choice from all mech sizes why assaults and heavies had superior lead. which is currently only different because of the SCR and ZCenturion release. why should I pilot a nova when all i get is regulary losing with 2 8 and having 400 dmg at "carry harder" mode when I can easily 4+ kills and 700 damage and actually DO carry a team? It's really hard finding love for mediums, especially in the higher elo where people have good reaction and aim. SCR is the only one that actually is able to hold its place.

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

When I took my mechs out for test runs, I normally could get 40LRMs off for 5-6 salvos before overheating with builds. Suddenly, 2 shots with 4 launchers and I was already borderline overheating. That's with a pair of LRM15s and 5s. My weight of fire was cut down by almost 60% as compared to what I could do before with that configuration. Others laughed at me to until I said you go try your own builds and see what happens. Every person I've asked that to has noticed a significant drop if they were not already fighting ghost heat from their build before. Remember, this hurts mechs that use LRM5s the most.

lrm 5's are now also in the ghost heat group, so when you fire them with some 20er lrms, tehy count to the ghost heat numbers.

Edited by Lily from animove, 27 October 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[Aresye]

xe N on, on 27 October 2014 - 09:10 AM, said:

The problem of the scoring system, the tournament one and the normal Cbill/Xp rewards is: they are measured in individual terms. This lead to a individual play style, where everyone wants to score highest based on kill/damage.

The goal however should be to score as a team. Reward should not be given as result of individual scores but as team based on the team score (kills/damage) for all players in a team equally.

That's why they made it a requirement to win the match in order for the score to count, to help promote a team effort.

Aside from that, how can they score a team? The matches are random. Teams are rarely (if ever) the exact same, so it's pretty much impossible to represent teams of players vs individual pilots.

Maybe if they did more team based tournaments (instead of the one), it could shake things up a bit, but that would exclude almost all solo players, because even if they grouped up into a team, the chances of them doing well against well established units & Clans is very unlikely, given the hyper aggression and coordination of the higher tier teams.

[Lord Perversor]

Shalune, on 27 October 2014 - 06:40 AM, said:

You realize this tournament excludes all but your top 10 right? This data is almost entirely meaningless for balancing purposes. It supports high risk/reward mechs even if they fail more often than not. All that matters is that they have the capability to put up huge numbers when the enemy team ignores them.

Unless you drop a single match with one of each chasis to get a comparative value on each category.

quick example if a 200 points drop with a timberwolf puts you into the 1000 position but similar points put you in the 500 position for thunderbolts you can guess there is half the people dropping with thunderbolts than with T-wolfs.

[That Dawg]

sigh, hoped for a real statistical chart.....this is.....well, shows whats most popular with the try hards

I didn't opt in, I avoided the servers like the plague during this leaderboard thing. Lesson learned about contest weekends.

[Kjudoon]

this is the no ghost heat range for LRMs:

either 5/5/5 (15 total tubes)
or 5+anything else (15-25 tubes)

This ain't right, and with AMS patently useless. If PGI gets rid of shared protection from AMS, then it's just fine.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 October 2014 - 06:41 PM.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Top 15 is great for seeing who is good in 'Mech and who is not, or see those who know how to make the most of tourney scoring for their 'Mech of choice.

The real information would be the score curve of all who participated in a particular chassis, even more telling would be if it were broken down by variant.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

because there aren't enough factories producing jenners.

And there should be even fewer producing assaults and at slower rates. It's one of the reasons why CW will absolutely need the return of R&R and monitoring the actual number of mechs out there, and pricing according to a REAL and DYNAMIC economic model that covers the logistics of , faction, distance shipped, rate of production and more. Otherwise there is no purpose for capturing a planet let alone not nuking them from orbit.

Edited by Kjudoon, 27 October 2014 - 06:45 PM.

[Milocinia]

Kjudoon, on 27 October 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

When I took my mechs out for test runs, I normally could get 40LRMs off for 5-6 salvos before overheating with builds. Suddenly, 2 shots with 4 launchers and I was already borderline overheating. That's with a pair of LRM15s and 5s. My weight of fire was cut down by almost 60% as compared to what I could do before with that configuration. Others laughed at me to until I said you go try your own builds and see what happens. Every person I've asked that to has noticed a significant drop if they were not already fighting ghost heat from their build before. Remember, this hurts mechs that use LRM5s the most.

Ah well cry me a river? God forbid you'll have to actually engage a mech in your LoS for once in your life.

[Kiiyor]

bluepiglet, on 27 October 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

The numbers are the means of the tops 15 players of each classes.

A few things I can get from the simple chart:

1) Damage/Kill based tournament is heavy weight favouring, and boring.

2) Medium is the current underdog

3) Victor needs some serious help urgently.

4) Timberwolf, pffff.....

This SCIENCE, is awesome. Great analysis.

[El Bandito]

bluepiglet, on 27 October 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

The numbers are the means of the tops 15 players of each classes.

A few things I can get from the simple chart:

1) Damage/Kill based tournament is heavy weight favouring, and boring.

2) Medium is the current underdog

3) Victor needs some serious help urgently.

4) Timberwolf, pffff.....

I agree. Victor seriously needs the mobility nerfs reverted and perhaps a bit more hard point inflation.

And yes, Timbies are OP as usual.

Lol, you colored the Quickdraw as a Medium, which by all accounts it really is.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 October 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[FupDup]

El Bandito, on 27 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

Lol, you colored the Quickdraw as a Medium, which by all accounts it really is.

It's even scaled like one!

[Kjudoon]

Kyocera, on 27 October 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Ah well cry me a river? God forbid you'll have to actually engage a mech in your LoS for once in your life.

I do all the time. It's just smarter to kill a mech without him having a chance to shoot you back. Works for every military and soldier in the world, should work just as well here.

This 'honor' based "I should be able to see my assailant" argument is full of cowdung.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

El Bandito, on 27 October 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

I agree. Victor seriously needs the mobility nerfs reverted and perhaps a bit more hard point inflation.

And yes, Timbies are OP as usual.

Lol, you colored the Quickdraw as a Medium, which by all accounts it really is.

Well there are at least 6 mechs that need a pass before the victor, and I would argue a lot more since the Assault category is overflowing with other top tier options. The goal isn't to make sure red is at the top of the chart, it is to make sure that there is less variance between all chassis.

[El Bandito]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 27 October 2014 - 07:55 PM, said:

Well there are at least 6 mechs that need a pass before the victor, and I would argue a lot more since the Assault category is overflowing with other top tier options. The goal isn't to make sure red is at the top of the chart, it is to make sure that there is less variance between all chassis.

But the biggest guys should be on top of the charts as long as only kill/assist/damage are calculated. Assault's role is to be the most lethal class. I suspect that is pretty much the case in overall matches, since the chart only includes best 10 performances, but honestly, I have not seen a high damage Victor in a long time.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 October 2014 - 08:55 PM.