66 replies to this topic

[Astrocanis]

Brody319, on 27 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Large amounts of 5s causes screen shakes, tighter grouping, and can create an almost constant sea of missiles.
Basically makes a mech useless while getting bombarded since it can't see.

Then because the missiles are coming almost constantly, you lose armor fast, like in an assault you can get destroyed within a few seconds.

I think it could be fixed by just having better ghost heat. Currently just putting them on chain fire means no ghost heat. Have them be much hotter than they currently are and they will be replaced. I do hate lrm swarms, currently if you get spotted early, chances are you are dead or crippled because the enemy has 3-4 missile boats with like 6 or more LRM 5s and they just don't stop raining.

Or...the target of the LRM 5 chain can move into a position that makes them ineffective. I do. I'm not very good. I CELEBRATE a 600 point game. When I get 2 or more kills in a game, I feel good. That sets context. Here's the rest: I have not, in several months, been overly damaged or killed by LRMs.

If I suck and I can get along, others, purportedly better than I, can.

[Astrocanis]

Joseph Mallan, on 27 October 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

You have a percent of missiles already missing anyway, we are not hitting with all 20 as should be the case for a weapon like missiles.


Are you sure its less? I fire 4 LRM5s I figure I'm hitting with 2-5 missiles average of 3. So I'd be hitting with the 12 missiles average of a TT LRM20.

Since I started using LRM 5 on my KTO, my hit rate is around 42%. Which basically means that each salvo is averaging 2.1 hits. If you postulated a similar rate of success, an LRM 20 would hit with 8.4 average.

Is the general position of the populace that 8.4 is a) bad or too much?

As I've tried to impress on people in other threads, LRMs in this game are a bad vehicle for kills (except for brand new players or the exceptionally stupid) but a good vehicle for "herding" and suppression.

[NoBodie]

Put AMS on your mech -- 1 AMS will stop 1 LRM 5!!!!!!!!! It's there use it. If you don't use AMS, stop crying about LRMs!

[Novakaine]

Sorry I'm guilty my bad.
But don't nerf my LRM5's
I promise to be a good boy.
Kinda sorta.

[Brody319]

Astrocanis, on 27 October 2014 - 11:45 AM, said:

Or...the target of the LRM 5 chain can move into a position that makes them ineffective. I do. I'm not very good. I CELEBRATE a 600 point game. When I get 2 or more kills in a game, I feel good. That sets context. Here's the rest: I have not, in several months, been overly damaged or killed by LRMs.

If I suck and I can get along, others, purportedly better than I, can.

Maybe if they moved slower than lrm 20s. I can tell you in a light, medium, and a heavy. As soon as I get spotted out in the open there is just this half a second between the "missiles incoming" warning and me being washed away in a shower of missiles. Little to no time to hide unless you are already near cover and moving towards it.

Also doesnt help that most ******* maps have walls that curve perfectly for LRMs to glide down and hit the top of your mech even if you are hugging a wall. Like seriously, the canyon's cliffs and walls are horrible, Your only cover is sheer straight up walls, anything else and the missiles will hit some of you.

1. Make them heat up a lot more, even on chain fire.
2. decrease damage immensely.
3. change their flight paths and speed.

[Astrocanis]

Brody319, on 27 October 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Maybe if they moved slower than lrm 20s. I can tell you in a light, medium, and a heavy. As soon as I get spotted out in the open there is just this half a second between the "missiles incoming" warning and me being washed away in a shower of missiles. Little to no time to hide unless you are already near cover and moving towards it.

Also doesnt help that most ******* maps have walls that curve perfectly for LRMs to glide down and hit the top of your mech even if you are hugging a wall. Like seriously, the canyon's cliffs and walls are horrible, Your only cover is sheer straight up walls, anything else and the missiles will hit some of you.

1. Make them heat up a lot more, even on chain fire.
2. decrease damage immensely.
3. change their flight paths and speed.

I guess the game plays differently for me than for you. I thought I was playing on the same maps. As I said, I think I'm not very good, but I haven't died to LRMs, or been unduly put out by them, for months.

Worst map for me is Caustic Valley. But I have not died to LRMs for months. And I rarely take the tonnage for AMS unless I have decided to help my team by playing a defensive posture.

[Brody319]

Astrocanis, on 27 October 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I guess the game plays differently for me than for you. I thought I was playing on the same maps. As I said, I think I'm not very good, but I haven't died to LRMs, or been unduly put out by them, for months.

Worst map for me is Caustic Valley. But I have not died to LRMs for months. And I rarely take the tonnage for AMS unless I have decided to help my team by playing a defensive posture.

Oh I haven't been killed in a while too, then the reward system kicked in, with the chassis tournament and all of the sudden boom, LRM boats everywhere. you peak out, before your mech and stop and go back into cover someone has a lock on you.

[Training Instructor]

When someone says they haven't died to lrms in months, they probably haven't been checking their damage screen at the end of the match, or they've ignored the tactical reality that the lrm bombers kept them pinned down and then they died "skillfully" to someone who exploited their lack of ability to move.

LRM20s shouldn't suck, but they do, for both clan and IS.

1) They weigh too much. Why do four separate LRM5 launchers, each with their own ammo feed and other internal parts, weight less than one LRM20? It makes no sense at all. The LRM20 should weigh less than the combined four launchers, due to a consolidation of packaging and moving parts. Sort of like how a bus that can carry 20 people doesn't weight as much combined as four cars that can carry five people each.

2) LRM20s spread damage everywhere, but for some reason lrm5s tend to mostly land torso shots.

3) If LRMs are so terrible, why do the challenge weekends bring them out in droves? Well, many maps don't feature as much cover as the l33t forum warriors like to think. My experience boating LRMs in a semi-fast battlemaster and quite fast stormcrow is that it's not that hard to get into positions where you tag, lock, and rain with LOS lrms.

[Glythe]

Is there anyone who feels like the LRM 20 should not be better considering it is much harder to mount overall? Does anyone at all feel like the LRM 20 is in a good place right now considering the alternatives?

Training Instructor, on 27 October 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

LRM20s shouldn't suck, but they do, for both clan and IS.

1) They weigh too much. Why do four separate LRM5 launchers, each with their own ammo feed and other internal parts, weight less than one LRM20? It makes no sense at all. The LRM20 should weigh less than the combined four launchers, due to a consolidation of packaging and moving parts. Sort of like how a bus that can carry 20 people doesn't weight as much combined as four cars that can carry five people each.

2) LRM20s spread damage everywhere, but for some reason lrm5s tend to mostly land torso shots.

In a nutshell that is exactly what is wrong with the LRM 20; the larger heavier weapon should have the advantage not the lighter version.

Training Instructor, on 27 October 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

3) If LRMs are so terrible, why do the challenge weekends bring them out in droves? Well, many maps don't feature as much cover as the l33t forum warriors like to think. My experience boating LRMs in a semi-fast battlemaster and quite fast stormcrow is that it's not that hard to get into positions where you tag, lock, and rain with LOS lrms.

You need at least one LRM to "tag" targets for assists to make sure you have hit every mech every match.

Edited by Glythe, 28 October 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

People who complain about LRM5's don't carry AMS or run with a team that does. 6 LRM5's chain fired from a Mad Dog will hardly touch a mech with AMS, especially one that's moving fast.

Secondly, LRM mechs who boat tend to suck once you close range <180m. If peope are dying from LRM5 spam... Stop playing "behind the hill" peekaboo, grow some balls, and rush the mech. Change your tactics, not how the mechanics work.

LRM5's are somewhat nice because they don't burn up your ton of ammo and the refresh rate so you can switch to multiple targets quicker for surpression.

Now LRM20's I never use. There's no point. At all. Those extra 5 missiles are always going to splash on the ground anyways, so I'd rather have the tonnage in ammo and crit space with smaller LRM launchers.

If anything, do something (buff) with the LRM20's, maybe even the 15's, but the rest are just fine the way they are.

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 28 October 2014 - 09:35 AM.

[ollo]

Brody319, on 27 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Basically makes a mech useless while getting bombarded since it can't see.

Protip: activate infrared.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Brody319, on 27 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

Large amounts of 5s causes screen shakes, tighter grouping, and can create an almost constant sea of missiles.
Basically makes a mech useless while getting bombarded since it can't see.

It could make a mech useless *at pinpoint damage* but if you target things you have a general direction.

Here's an idea, increase the speed of the missiles significantly and the speed at which the AMS operates to compensate for LRM increase, but keep the recycle time of the LRM's. It would allow LRMS to do their job, minus the constant screenshake locking a mech.

Buuuuut then people would complain that missiles would be too fast and people would have enough reaction time to duck behind cover, ect, ect, whine, moan, nerf.

[Glythe]

00ohDstruct, on 28 October 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

People who complain about LRM5's don't carry AMS .... 6 LRM5's chain fired from a Mad Dog will hardly touch a mech with AMS, especially one that's moving fast.

If anything, do something (buff) with the LRM20's, maybe even the 15's, but the rest are just fine the way they are.

Here's the problem.... you like the LRM 5 when it is broken. In order to get the chest seeking capabilities it has right now you have to roll back to a time when Artemis made LRMs go to chest and tag with Artemis made them go to center chest.

If the LRM 5 was on the same page as the LRM 20 basically you would have:

1) One missile just misses the target with no hope of ever doing damage but draws AMS fire
2) One missile always targets an arm
3) One missile always targets a leg
4) One missile always targets a side torso
5) One missile always targets center torso

On top of the missile that will always miss you have a good chance that missiles targeting the arms and legs will miss. So imagine if you were basically firing a LRM 5 with a reliable chance to hit with 2 or 3 missiles from a single salvo.


Long story short.... the LRM 20 is terrible as it is suffering from some old LRM holdover nerfs. Meanwhile the LRM 5 is way too good because for whatever reason it didn't get the same nerf treatment. If the LRM 5 had the same hit rate as the LRM 20 then no one would be using it.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Dont worry; theyll all be nerfed. The players of this game will never accept the LRM as a viable weapon

Funny thing about lrm 5s...

If the enemy has just a few AMS you wont get through.

So OP

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 28 October 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

RazorbeastFXK3, on 27 October 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

I'm looking forward to carrying LRM20x4 when I start working on the Awesome 'Mech Variants.

How'd that work out for you?

[0bsidion]

How about leaving the LRM 5 alone and just buffing the LRM 20? LRM 5s aren't all that great unless used en mass.

[Wolfwood592]

This thread made me bring out my LRM kintaro....so much fun

[Juodas Varnas]

All of the LRMs need to be "normalized" spread and cooldown wise to the LRM10.
(I'd also buff the missile velocity, because they're really slow).

[Khobai]

No all the lrms dont need to be normalized

thered be zero reason to ever use an lrm5 if it had the same spread as an lrm20

i agree that the lrm20 needs a buff though. and I agree its pretty dumb that lrms have the same screenshake as AC20s, that needs to change

[Chuck Jager]

seems that lrm5 without +A or lrm15 with +A are the way to go unless a mech has specific Quirks

Yes the +A is not good for the extra damage. It is the lock on time if the individual has the balls to get their own locks. High mounted lrm 15/20s are great as close support during a push when you can not get in a direct fire shot. I have also had good luck with a streak crow with 1 lrm15+a and streaks. I use the same lock mechanic and can hit the target coming and going.

lrm5+a seems like a ton of extra weight for the damage increase, I do not run pure boats and prefer the heatsinks and lasers for the tonnage and the very few mechs I go with