96 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

DarthPeanut, on 29 October 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I must be the only one who does not run PPC on a K2 from looking at this thread and the other one. I like the quirks, they look good. Of course that is cause I run the ac10/ ac5/ uac5 with mediums build. To not favor a build using the ballistic hard points on that mech seems to be less than optimal imo.

Jester is already the energy boat of catapults. Even then I am not using PPC anymore.

I've barely ever used PPCs on the CPLT-K2, but I really tried to make it work. Honest to God, I tried. But it's basically an extreme version of the AWS-8Q, where you spend the whole match sniping and getting hit after hit after hit... and then you end up doing 300 dmg, when you felt confident it was at least 600 dmg, since you were hitting all your shots.

In short, the DPS isn't high enough. They'd get around that with a PPC cooldown buff.

Also note that they've defined the CPLT-K2 as a Skirmisher, not a Support mech. Skirmishers' primary weapons are lasers and AC10s. Not PPCs or ER PPCs. Hell, I'm tempted to just play the K2 with PPCs now, just out of spite. I'll make it my new Locust. But I probably won't. I really tried to make the Locust work too, but... all the frustration just to prove that I can achieve average scores with a sub-average mech isn't worth the head-ache.

I am really disappointed by this. The Catapult was one of the first mechs I bought in 2012, it's always been one of my favourite mechs. First they nerfed the CPLT-C1, C4 and A1 with those ridiculous new elephant ear launchers. Now they had a chance to restore the iconic CPLT-K2 to a PPC platform, but instead they reduced it to an ML + AC10 brawler.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 29 October 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

YOU DARE TO REFUSE MY WUBVERINE METAGAME???!

You will pay for your insolence with my wub-wub that matches Clan LPL range!

The Wolverine-6R quirks were completely mishandled by PGI... what is the point of a gun arm if you don't bother to reinforce it?

So much underhive... so obvious.

[DarthPeanut]

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

I've barely ever used PPCs on the CPLT-K2, but I really tried to make it work. Honest to God, I tried. But it's basically an extreme version of the AWS-8Q, where you spend the whole match sniping and getting hit after hit after hit... and then you end up doing 300 dmg, when you felt confident it was at least 600 dmg, since you were hitting all your shots.

In short, the DPS isn't high enough. They'd get around that with a PPC cooldown buff.

Also note that they've defined the CPLT-K2 as a Skirmisher, not a Support mech. Skirmishers' primary weapons are lasers and AC10s. Not PPCs or ER PPCs. Hell, I'm tempted to just play the K2 with PPCs now, just out of spite. I'll make it my new Locust. But I probably won't. I really tried to make the Locust work too, but... all the frustration just to prove that I can achieve average scores with a sub-average mech isn't worth the head-ache.

I am really disappointed by this. The Catapult was one of the first mechs I bought in 2012, it's always been one of my favourite mechs. First they nerfed the CPLT-C1, C4 and A1 with those ridiculous new elephant ear launchers. Now they had a chance to restore the iconic CPLT-K2 to a PPC platform, but instead they reduced it to an ML + AC10 brawler.

You said it yourself it cannot DPS well enough and that is not going to change. The PPC is just underwhelming to center a loadout around on anything now, much less the K2. With the % level of quirks it would get they cannot make it viable either.

I know people like lore and all but at some point things have to deviate. This game is based in lore for general form but the details are going to have to be MWO, not TT. If you want the lore to rule what you run that is ok you have that option to run it but realize you are at a disadvantage cause this is not a TT game anymore.

The optimized max effort builds are not stock builds or lore based. To quirk lore based build just for the sake of nostalgia is not really helping a mech. Just giving it more of the same mediocre loadout options.

ETA: Do not take this like I am attacking you or anything. You just highlighted the point of my thought that PPC is not effective on the K2.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 29 October 2014 - 02:06 PM.

[occusoj]

Quote

The PPC is just underwhelming to center a loadout around on anything now, much less the K2. With the % level of quirks it would get they cannot make it viable either.

Big problem here is that they nerfed the K2s main weapon way too hard. In fact, there wasnt really a need to nerf them for the K2. Before that, 2xERPPC+AC10 wasnt that bad of a build on the K2 and 600dmg were easy to deal in a game.

Its not so much for the lore. The "old" K2 was fun to play and at least somewhat viable to the team as long range support. But in a sweeping strike against everything with a PPC it was ruined.

[Mothykins]

DarthPeanut, on 29 October 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

You said it yourself it cannot DPS well enough and that is not going to change. The PPC is just underwhelming to center a loadout around on anything now, much less the K2. With the % level of quirks it would get they cannot make it viable either.

I know people like lore and all but at some point things have to deviate. This game is based in lore for general form but the details are going to have to be MWO, not TT. If you want the lore to rule what you run that is ok you have that option to run it but realize you are at a disadvantage cause this is not a TT game anymore.

The optimized max effort builds are not stock builds or lore based. To quirk lore based build just for the sake of nostalgia is not really helping a mech. Just giving it more of the same mediocre loadout options.

ETA: Do not take this like I am attacking you or anything. You just highlighted the point of my thought that PPC is not effective on the K2.

I still think that It's a damn shame, and there should have been effort to at least somewhat help the PPC aspect. It's a support Mech, and no label as Skirmisher will change that: It's 70-30 split on torsos, has no arms to shield with, and has high mounted energy that makes it great as a direct-fire support.

Quite simply, this is the better quirk choice for many, many reasons;


PPC Velocity +7.5%
Projectile Velocity +7.5%
Medium Laser Range -7.5%
Energy Weapon Range -7.5%
With either
Ballistic Weapon Range +10%
OR
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%


Simply, that velocity buff is the only thing it needs to really make it shine better with that PPC, and the split still helps the Ballistics.

Only thing is, this makes x2 PPC + Gauss a thing again...

[Antonio]

I don't think I have anything to say that hasn't already been said but I just have to add that I find the lack of PPC quirks disturbing.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Deathlike, on 29 October 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

The Wolverine-6R quirks were completely mishandled by PGI... what is the point of a gun arm if you don't bother to reinforce it?

So much underhive... so obvious.

Man did they drop the ball on the 6R, I think the Cent's got its SRM boosts somewhere along the lines.
The 6K is ok, but buffing sub-par weapons on a sub-par mech seems a little counter-intuitive imo. At least it will be somewhat better than it is though I guess, it will be interesting grinding the Wubverine.

Most of the Spider quirks make me scratch my head. Sure quirks are nice, but the non-5D Spiders have always suffered from lack of more energy hardpoints. If the SDR-5V even had 4 energy hardpoints it would become a lot better than it is. The 5K needs the same thing, it should be a poor mans Ember (the ballistic range boost is still worthless for MG mechs).

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 29 October 2014 - 03:31 PM.

[Sahoj]

I think they'll probably do a second pass on these Quirks - they just want to get the first 'build' of them out. I doubt they'd leave the K2 without a PPC buff for long in the new system.

[Mothykins]

Sahoj, on 29 October 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

I think they'll probably do a second pass on these Quirks - they just want to get the first 'build' of them out. I doubt they'd leave the K2 without a PPC buff for long in the new system.

I find that adorably optimistic.

[Dauntless Blint]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 28 October 2014 - 09:03 PM, said:

Centurion A(C) is not a Centurion variant, it is simply a custom mech PGI built, which is not a defining variant in the game, and quirks should not be based around it. It would similar to giving AC20 bonuses to Jagermechs, because they are popular.

My Error on the Catapult, must have been looking at Jester. here is the relevant entry. Still not bonus to the primary weapon system. I'm not sure that giving bonuses to Medium Lasers and Machine guns is better or worse than Large Lasers. This is PPC mech, and that should be the primary focus.

Catapult K2 - Tier 3 Skirmisher

Medium Laser Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range +7.5%
Medium Laser Duration -7.5%
Laser Weapon Duration -7.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%

Is the PPC counted as both an energy weapon and a ballistic weapon for the purposes of twirk's

[Joe Mallad]

Catapult K2 - Tier 3 Skirmisher

Medium Laser Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range +7.5%
Medium Laser Duration -7.5%
Laser Weapon Duration -7.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%

So... with these quirks we can get a 10% faster recycle time on ANY ballistics we want on the mech, Med laser duration is chopped to -15% (all other lasers duration is -7.5% if used.) Med lasers get a buff to range by 15% while all other "energy" based weapons (Laser and PPC/ERPPC) get a 7.5% range boost.

So the main focus is on its ability to skirmish with its Med lasers as they are getting the largest and most buffs, while the ballistics and PPC/ERPPC buffs are still there just not the MAIN focus. You know... I can deal with this. This give the PPC or AC/Gauss builds a bit of a boost but gives its medium ranged lasers the teeth it needs to be effective where it really needs to keep the fight going... mid to short range. PGI, some may not see this as smart but I think this will help the K2 quite a bit.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 29 October 2014 - 05:20 PM.

[Joe Mallad]

CorditeJunkie, on 29 October 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

Is the PPC counted as both an energy weapon and a ballistic weapon for the purposes of twirk's

lol no. PPCs are NOT laser or Ballistic weapons but will always fall under PPC quirks OR Energy Weapon quirks.

So if you see a quirk that says Energy... that means laser and PPC based weapons get a buff.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 29 October 2014 - 05:23 PM.

[Dauntless Blint]

So the PPC sniper (aka a support roll) get's a popular build buffed,after they nerfed PPC's and the old UAC's they have to give it something I guess haha,It's almost like someone at PGI hate's this particular mech...they should buff PPC damage by some % maybe? It wouldn't surprise me if that happen's later on.

As it stand's it can group a lot of damage at a focused range but is hotter as it's dps increases.

I guess the conclusion is that they don't want sniper's in a competitive "Aiming at E.Sports" game that deter movement and map control.

Might go back to 2x LBX10's,their low and close positioning doesn't hurt them in the least....having greater convergence on the K2

Edited by CorditeJunkie, 29 October 2014 - 06:27 PM.

[Dauntless Blint]

Yoseful Mallad, on 29 October 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

lol no. PPCs are NOT laser or Ballistic weapons but will always fall under PPC quirks OR Energy Weapon quirks.

So if you see a quirk that says Energy... that means laser and PPC based weapons get a buff.

Well they act like a ballistic weapon all be it a very sad one,I never said anything about lasers either as they aren't lasers but an energy weapon that functions as a ballistic weapon....there's my argument and only in the case of twerks,yea go miley! (not really)

Totaly unrelated,I'll speculate maybe they will increase the blast radius of PPC in the future too and where are plasma rifles?

Edited by CorditeJunkie, 29 October 2014 - 06:36 PM.

[Kreisel]

I still say with a Minor change I would be fine with the K2 buffs

Catapult K2
Medium Laser Range: +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range: -7.5%
Medium Laser Heat: -7.5%
Energy Weapon Heat: -7.5%
Ballistic Range: +10%

That way you get the same general benefit as the current build, but it is MUCH better for the Stock build as well, Considering one of the major issue with the Stock build is it runs much too hot. Better Medium lasers (especially less hot ones) would help the stock build a great deal but allowing you to actually use both Medium lasers and your PPC without so much a risk of overheating, which it helps all the builds the current set up does every bit as much as shortened duration. Increased Ballistic range would be useful to the builds it helps with the shortened cooldowns but also help the MG. Ballistic Range also keeps with the theme of it being a 'support' or long range mech, better than short AC20 cooldowns will.

Edited by Kreisel, 29 October 2014 - 06:43 PM.

[luxebo]

I believe that PGI can easily change values and whatnot simply via code and stuff like that, and these are only basic quirks for the mechs. They most likely will furthur reinforce these quirks and change them (like hopefully the entire Catapult group, plus other mechs that still are lackluster.) Russ has said that movements will still be gone back through so Catapults might be able to jump an entire mountain in one go (doubt), and I think lower tier Clan mechs (Summoner, Nova, all the Lights, Wave 2 except Hellbringer, etc as more get added) will also be slightly buffed. Considering the mobility of PGI's responses atm likely even with just this topic Russ or another guy would pipe in a change sooner or later, K2 and others mentioned.

[Eddrick]

How's this for Catapult-K2 Quirks?

PPC Velocity +%
Energy Weapon Range +%
Medium Laser Heat -% (No PPC heat reduction. Because, we don't want to encourage 3 PPCs on it)
Laser Weapon Cooldown -% (I would go Energy Weapon. But, some have fire control issues for PPCs with shorter cooldowns)
MG Spread -% (MG needs this and range more then anything)
Ballistic Range +%