115 replies to this topic

[Logan Hawke]

Ooh! Ooh! I know why it doesn't have a PPC buff!

It's because as always the small vocal minority bitched and moaned and screamed until PGI gave in to their cries of 'I wanna build whatever I want and have all the buffs apply because I deserve whatever I want' just to make them shut the **** up.

TL;DR - the vocal few ruined it for the rest of us as per usual.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 29 October 2014 - 03:05 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Logan Hawke, on 29 October 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Ooh! Ooh! I know why it doesn't have a PPC buff!

It's because as always the small vocal minority bitched and moaned and screamed until PGI gave in to their cries of 'I wanna build whatever I want and have all the buffs apply because I deserve whatever I want' just to make them shut the **** up.

TL;DR - the vocal few ruined it for the rest of us as per usual.

I think it might also be because Tier 3 perks aren't strong enough to make the PPC worth carrying anyway. So the PPC would go 7.5% farther and have a fire rate increase of 7.5%, that doesn't make up for the high heat and slow projectile speed.

If they REALLY improved the PPCs projectile speed and heat, and people took PPCs like they should, you would probably see tripple PPC Catapults (maybe quad if it fits good enough) or PPC and A/C5 combo mechs (a meta machine through and through). Just because PPCs are really good doesn't mean people only run them in the arms and swap out their big ballistics for MGs.

Honestly I see why the quirks went the way it did, but it does make me sad a bit.

[Macksheen]

Hard to say - they stuck to the STD loadout on the Boar's Head .... and only God knows why there. Others they moved to more traditional in-game load-outs.

I suspect on many they took care of the most common expected builds and when they got to chassis 3+ that aren't played much they were a bit low on imagination and had mush for brains from staring at the same numbers the whole time.

i'll still run my Ilya w/ 3x UAC ... I may swap my K2 back to dual LBX ... but my Boar's Head will certainly not be AC10 + MPLs.

[Alistair Winter]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 October 2014 - 03:14 AM, said:

I think it might also be because Tier 3 perks aren't strong enough to make the PPC worth carrying anyway. So the PPC would go 7.5% farther and have a fire rate increase of 7.5%, that doesn't make up for the high heat and slow projectile speed.
If they REALLY improved the PPCs projectile speed and heat, and people took PPCs like they should, you would probably see tripple PPC Catapults (maybe quad if it fits good enough) or PPC and A/C5 combo mechs (a meta machine through and through). Just because PPCs are really good doesn't mean people only run them in the arms and swap out their big ballistics for MGs.
Honestly I see why the quirks went the way it did, but it does make me sad a bit.

That's an interesting point, but they could probably work around that by fixing cooldown and projectile speed, without touching the heat at all. That would let you spam 2 PPCs with impunity, but it would make it too hot to use 3 or 4 PPCs.

The 2xPPC + AC5 combo is a bit tricky to avoid, but that's really not a very dominant build anymore. The current meta seems more reliant on laser boating and SRMs. The CTF-3D or assault mech with 2xPPC + AC10 is a rare sight these days, eventhough the ER PPC and AC10 have identical projectile speed, and the PPC is very close too.

In other words, I'm not sure the PPC + AC5 combo is something that PGI desperately needs to avoid anymore. Especially on a mech that doesn't have jump jets.

[Elizander]

Heat reduction on the K2 would be great but it'll probably go to the Jester which is the more dedicated energy boat. I'd still prefer energy weapon heat reduction over laser burn time.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

That's an interesting point, but they could probably work around that by fixing cooldown and projectile speed, without touching the heat at all. That would let you spam 2 PPCs with impunity, but it would make it too hot to use 3 or 4 PPCs.

The 2xPPC + AC5 combo is a bit tricky to avoid, but that's really not a very dominant build anymore. The current meta seems more reliant on laser boating and SRMs. The CTF-3D or assault mech with 2xPPC + AC10 is a rare sight these days, eventhough the ER PPC and AC10 have identical projectile speed, and the PPC is very close too.

In other words, I'm not sure the PPC + AC5 combo is something that PGI desperately needs to avoid anymore. Especially on a mech that doesn't have jump jets.

I think the PPC and A/C5 meta is gone only because of how ehhh the PPCs currently are. If PPCs saw a huge improvement on the K2, I think the PPC and A/C5 combo would make a big comeback.

The JJ needs kind of killed the jump snipe fad in general, and the K2 can't JJ anyway, so at least we don't have to worry about jump sniping.

Still, I think the K2 would become a huge high alpha build with PPCs perks and I feel PGI knew this and decided to instead quirk a load out they are comfortable with balance wise.

It points out other underlying issues with mech loadouts, but that is for another conversation I suppose.

Overall PPC perks would be nice, but I don't think PGI was comfortable with where the player base might have taken the build.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cavale, on 28 October 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

Decisive lack of intelligence, and listening to competitive loadouts. I:

You know how I was raising the Hunkback quirks and giving them heck for them? (Med las, AC10. Really.)

This is worse. This is legit turning the K2 into a worse Jager. That is it.

So in other words, how our military equipment is designed?

[Malleus011]

Yeah, was expecting serious PPC quirks for the K2, a twin PPC carrying heavy. Kind of puzzled by their absence.

[Ultimax]

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

The whole point of the Quirk pass was to counter the meta and make each mech more unique and preferably more in line with its stock set up.

The goal of quirk passes was definitely to try and add some uniqueness to the mechs, and also to be in-line with their stock set ups - that much I agree. Also to boost up under-performers.


It was never, once, stated that the goal was to "counter the meta".


That would be pure folly, really.


You can't "counter" the meta. The metagame isn't set in stone, it can and will shif - PGI would need to re-do all of the quirks every 3 to 6 months to "counter" what ever the current meta is.



The meta has shifted very heavily towards speed, lasers, SRMs and legging.

[Maxx Blue]

This wouldn't annoy me so much if the 3-ppc Awesome hadn't recieved PPC quirks. I really don't get why the PPC awesome gets PPC quirks, but the PPC Cat gets ML quirks. Sure you could use the torso energy slots for more PPC's, but what is stopping the AWS-8Q from loading up with more than 3 PPC's? I'm OK with having the ballistic quirk on there for variety, but ML quirks? I don't get it.

Also, why in the love of all that is good in this world didn't they buff the CT armor or structure? The Cat is practically a giant, walking CT. I can twist around like Linda Blair's head in Exorcist and STILL end up dying to CT kills the vast majority of the time. I would honestly rather give up one of the weapon quirks to get some CT armor.

[Revis Volek]

Kjudoon, on 28 October 2014 - 09:46 PM, said:

Here's my view on the buffs.

Do not expect a single buff to the meta builds on any chassis. They don't need it. These quirks are to combat those meta builds and enforce a more traditional TT flavor to the chassis.

That's my view on it. I don't run a K2 because I don't like the style of play it needs to be successful.

That said, none of these quirks stop you from doing the K2 Noskillsapult (my new title for any Dual Gauss/Dual 20s mech) They just won't be bonus buffed because it was not the original design intent.

Someone has a hard time suing Gauss!? lol j/k I sense some resentment over the dual gauss builds....they wreck **** dude and 4x Gauss DWF does it best!

Also i run a 1x Gauss 2x er Large and MEDIUM LASER K2....does pretty well.

Edited by DarthRevis, 29 October 2014 - 06:49 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Maxx Blue, on 29 October 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

This wouldn't annoy me so much if the 3-ppc Awesome hadn't recieved PPC quirks. I really don't get why the PPC awesome gets PPC quirks, but the PPC Cat gets ML quirks. Sure you could use the torso energy slots for more PPC's, but what is stopping the AWS-8Q from loading up with more than 3 PPC's? I'm OK with having the ballistic quirk on there for variety, but ML quirks? I don't get it.

Also, why in the love of all that is good in this world didn't they buff the CT armor or structure? The Cat is practically a giant, walking CT. I can twist around like Linda Blair's head in Exorcist and STILL end up dying to CT kills the vast majority of the time. I would honestly rather give up one of the weapon quirks to get some CT armor.

I really think it has to do with the PPC/Ballistic high FLD alpha combos. The Awesome can't mount ballistics in the variant that received the PPC buff, the Cat K2 can. PGI didn't want PPC / A/C10 or PPC / A/C5 Cat K2s stomping around. It sucks because I was kind of looking forward to playing a good PPC sniper, but I think the above killed it.

As for some CT strength (whether internals or armor), yea I would have liked that too.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Ultimatum X, on 29 October 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

It was never, once, stated that the goal was to "counter the meta".

The stated design goal of the quirk pass was to bring lesser-used chassis/variants closer to the performance of the 'meta' - which can be stretched into 'countering' the meta.

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 October 2014 - 06:50 AM, said:

I really think it has to do with the PPC/Ballistic high FLD alpha combos. The Awesome can't mount ballistics in the variant that received the PPC buff, the Cat K2 can. PGI didn't want PPC / A/C10 or PPC / A/C5 Cat K2s stomping around. It sucks because I was kind of looking forward to playing a good PPC sniper, but I think the above killed it.

Simple fix, give the K2 PPC quirks and replace the ballistic hardpoints with an additional pair of energy ones.

MGs are fairly useless on it, all things considered, and it shouldn't be mounting heavier ballistics anyway.

(NB: I don't expect this to ever happen)

[KraftySOT]

No matter what they are, someone wll always be unhappy

The quirks are great. Even 7.5% improvements to energy is going to help yer PPCs. My K2 loadout was two UAC/5s, 2 ERLL *shrug*

Those quirks would have kept me from selling it. Wasnt a fan after a 100 matches or so.

[Ultimax]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 29 October 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

The stated design goal of the quirk pass was to bring lesser-used chassis/variants closer to the performance of the 'meta' - which can be stretched into 'countering' the meta.

I don't think you understand what meta is/means, which makes having a discussion on it impossible.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 October 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Logan Hawke, on 29 October 2014 - 03:04 AM, said:

Ooh! Ooh! I know why it doesn't have a PPC buff!

It's because as always the small vocal minority bitched and moaned and screamed until PGI gave in to their cries of 'I wanna build whatever I want and have all the buffs apply because I deserve whatever I want' just to make them shut the **** up.

TL;DR - the vocal few ruined it for the rest of us as per usual.

Yeah nice try, take your rhetoric somewhere else. Considering all the buffs have been fairly consistent with the previous set, the weapon quirks just got split between general and specific with this new batch thanks to those people who complained.

Your post makes no sense especially given the argument/rationale behind the split to begin with other than to serve as propaganda that people 'complaining' ruin games and that we should all just sit with whatever a game developer throws at us. Now this may be hyperbole, but oh well.....

[Athalus]

As one of those people who uses the K2 as a ballistic 'mech (It just looks so much more awesome then the Jagermech) I am (pleasantly?) surpised. Really expected PPC quirks on this one...

[MeiSooHaityu]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 29 October 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

The stated design goal of the quirk pass was to bring lesser-used chassis/variants closer to the performance of the 'meta' - which can be stretched into 'countering' the meta.



Simple fix, give the K2 PPC quirks and replace the ballistic hardpoints with an additional pair of energy ones.

MGs are fairly useless on it, all things considered, and it shouldn't be mounting heavier ballistics anyway.

(NB: I don't expect this to ever happen)

That's a Jester without JJs .

They should definently not remove the ballistic slots.

[Mothykins]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 29 October 2014 - 06:54 AM, said:

Simple fix, give the K2 PPC quirks and replace the ballistic hardpoints with an additional pair of energy ones.

MGs are fairly useless on it, all things considered, and it shouldn't be mounting heavier ballistics anyway.

(NB: I don't expect this to ever happen)

Not going to happen, simply because of the Jester.

Ultimatum X, on 29 October 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

I don't think you understand what meta is/means, which makes having a discussion on it impossible.

Meta gaming is one part taking the best possible set of equipment (Chassis and weapons) and one part making sure you're in the best possible position (Map location, best defensible spot, ect.) and a splash of behavioral recognition (This guy always does this)

So, on one part of that, yes, he's right. If you quirk to improve non-meta'embraced mechs and loadouts, you're trying to shift the meta by opposing it.

[Jacob Side]

The K2 without PPC quirks makes no sense.

But

•HBK-4H One of many Swayback variants, the 4H Hunchback is a modification of the design that replaces the AC/20 with both a lighter Autocannon/10 and two additional medium lasers in the right torso while maintaining two tons of ammo in the left. Introduced in 2819 this modification increases the Hunchback's long range striking capability at the expense of raw firepower

...the AC10 quirk makes sense for the 4H...