115 replies to this topic

[MoonUnitBeta]

White Bear 84, on 28 October 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

But what about gauss!!

YOU GOT YOUR BALLISTIC QUIRK NOW SIT DOWN!

...

[Krivvan]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 28 October 2014 - 09:52 PM, said:

Except they don't. I want the quirks to push the traditional (Battletech) roles for these mechs. But they are clearly catering to the "expert meta-game opinions".

To be fair, many of the traditional BT roles are really, really, really stupid.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Cavale, on 28 October 2014 - 09:43 PM, said:

EXCEPT IF YOU WANT THE DAKKA, YOU GETS THE JAGER.



I have a Million Cbills down, right now, that the reason the K2 is not getting a PPC buff is because the Firebrand IS.

Done. I expect to get the c-bills in $ value via the Karma Koin Kard.

[Hoax415]

I'm almost always in favor of stock-build weapon quirks but I have to say that I get an exception like the Centurion line. Everything that is good about MWO's Cent fails to fit with LRM builds.

I completely agree though that any mech that has a stock loadout mounting big AC's or PPC's should have quirks for those weapon systems.

Its so bizzare that it feels like a typo that the K2 has medium laser quirks not PPC quirks. If the meta build or comp build is a ML + Ballistic loadout they can use the general energy buffs. Its the PPC build that fits the lore better, is more unique and needs more help. I don't get that decision at all.

But it was a given that all of us wouldn't love all the quirks. You win some you lose some.

[Mothykins]

MoonUnitBeta, on 28 October 2014 - 10:49 PM, said:

Done. I expect to get the c-bills in $ value via the Karma Koin Kard.

You are aware there is no $3 option, right?

[MoonUnitBeta]

Cavale, on 28 October 2014 - 10:54 PM, said:

You are aware there is no $3 option, right?

Okay fine. $6.95 then. lol

You have my word if I have yours. If the Firebrand has a (ER)PPC perk, you win. If it does not, I win.

Edit:
Well I had my hand out for a while waiting for a handshake, but now that the quirks were leaked from the test server, we can't make a bet anymore. Your loss though so I don't feel bad.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 30 October 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[EvilCow]

It is disappointing, the quirks should reflect the capability of the stock configuration and the K2 is clearly non a ballistic mech except for the machine guns.

[Glythe]

Alek Ituin, on 28 October 2014 - 10:03 PM, said:

Oh, you mean the HBK-4H? The Hunchback variant built around an AC/10 and Medium Lasers?

It's actually one of the quirk sets that reinforces a canon loadout instead of a competitive player's loadout.

But see here's the problem.....

They are adding quirks to mechs people already own. It would be different if we had an empty garage and the game had just launched.

The quirks say If you own Mech Z and you play it exactly with loadout Y then you get a big buff. If you play it with loadout X then you only get a partial buff. The problem here is that some mechs are getting a competitive buff to the loadouts that people normally use. These mechs will get a LOT better. And what's wrong with this is almost all of the IS mechs are bad and need major boosts. What they're really doing is screwing over some of the bad IS mechs with pretty mediocre buffs that no one wants.

Solution? Play clan mechs because they are overall way better.

[Alek Ituin]

Glythe, on 28 October 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

But see here's the problem.....

They are adding quirks to mechs people already own. It would be different if we had an empty garage and the game had just launched.

The quirks say If you own Mech Z and you play it exactly with loadout Y then you get a big buff. If you play it with loadout X then you only get a partial buff. The problem here is that some mechs are getting a competitive buff to the loadouts that people normally use. These mechs will get a LOT better. And what's wrong with this is almost all of the IS mechs are bad and need major boosts. What they're really doing is screwing over some of the bad IS mechs with pretty mediocre buffs that no one wants.

Solution? Play clan mechs because they are overall way better.

I'm going to break one of the cardinal rules of the civilized internet here... But it needs to be said:

Your opinion means nothing, because you complain about literally EVERYTHING.

These buffs are making Mechs better at certain roles. What those roles are, and how they're being buffed is often questionable, but they're getting better. Reinforcing stock builds and reinforcing the roles of each variant are something that needs to be done... Not saying this is perfect or anything, but it's a step, and a step is a damn sight better than what we've gotten before.

But no matter what they do you'll just find something else to complain about. So please just stop while you're ahead.

[Kiiyor]

Cavale, on 28 October 2014 - 09:38 PM, said:

Decisive lack of intelligence, and listening to competitive loadouts. I:

You know how I was raising the Hunkback quirks and giving them heck for them? (Med las, AC10. Really.)

This is worse. This is legit turning the K2 into a worse Jager. That is it.

The K2 was always a worse Jager!

I can't wait to see what they do for Dakka on the Jagers.

[Kjudoon]

Glythe, on 28 October 2014 - 11:51 PM, said:

But see here's the problem.....

They are adding quirks to mechs people already own. It would be different if we had an empty garage and the game had just launched.

The quirks say If you own Mech Z and you play it exactly with loadout Y then you get a big buff. If you play it with loadout X then you only get a partial buff. The problem here is that some mechs are getting a competitive buff to the loadouts that people normally use. These mechs will get a LOT better. And what's wrong with this is almost all of the IS mechs are bad and need major boosts. What they're really doing is screwing over some of the bad IS mechs with pretty mediocre buffs that no one wants.

Solution? Play clan mechs because they are overall way better.

Just nobody tell me then that choosing 'clan easy mode' is then mad skillz while laughing at all the non clan 'noobs'. They're obviously playing at a harder level.

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 October 2014 - 12:52 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

I really don't know what to say about this one. It's the most... I can't.... I don't even....

The whole point of the Quirk pass was to counter the meta and make each mech more unique and preferably more in line with its stock set up. The AWS-8Q isn't a laser vomit mech, it's a PPC boat. The YLW isn't a gauss + ER LL mech, it's AC20 + 2xMPLs.

The CPLT-K2 will continue to be an AC10 / AC20 / Gauss platform untill 2015, and it will still be inferior to the Jagermech. There is literally no incentive for PPCs, in fact you'd be a stubborn moron to equip PPCs, because you'll get a bigger bonus for lasers and ballistics.

It has no character, no unique feel as a mech, it's just a frankenstein with huge, worthless arms that people will just strip of armour and either leave empty or keep medium lasers in for giggles.

Russ Bullock, please own up to the fact that you made a mistake with this one. Fix the CPLT-K2 quirks in the next patch, please. It needs extra armour on the arms, to make up for their huge size, and it needs the same PPC quirks as the AWS-8Q. Projectile speed, cooldown bonus, heat reduction. 2 PPC's was never a good idea on a heavy mech, but it could work with the right quirks. Just like the AWS-8Q will.

[Kjudoon]

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

Russ Bullock, please own up to the fact that you made a mistake with this one. Fix the CPLT-K2 quirks in the next patch, please. It needs extra armour on the arms, to make up for their huge size, and it needs the same PPC quirks as the AWS-8Q. Projectile speed, cooldown bonus, heat reduction. 2 PPC's was never a good idea on a heavy mech, but it could work with the right quirks. Just like the AWS-8Q will.

It won't be implemented for another week. so he can't 'fix it next patch'. Also, out of all the arms on the CPLTs the K2 is by far the smallest Now the other 3 regular variants need those air conditioners bolted on better. Also, these quirks are not designed to make a 'better meta', but make other builds and mechs equal to the meta so they get played more.

Edited by Kjudoon, 29 October 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I have mixed feelings about this perk setup on the K2.

On one side, I can't understand why a PPC based mech did not get PPC based perks. I really thought they would ignore the ballistics all together and concentrate more on energy and PPC quirks. I was also hoping a small buff to CT internals or armor might be in the mix.

HOWEVER...Since it isn't getting PPC quirks, I am thrilled that it is getting 10% Ballistic Cooldown. I do run a dual A/C10 setup and already have the highest A/C10 cooldown module in the mech (12% reduction in cooldown). Now with the perk, the A/C10 will fire almost 25% faster. A virtual A/C20 with 490m optimal range (I have the range module too) and a 22% faster firing A/C10....oooh. That's just nice no matter how you look at it.

In anycase, I did really want to see a PPC buff, but I can't wait to see how quickly I can rip off dual A/C10 shots in the Cat.

[Tahribator]

It's really weird. K2 is one of the best heavy PPC platforms in the game, yet it gets a bonus for mediums lasers? A bonus for a weapon that can only be considered as a backup weapon in this 'Mech?

[Alistair Winter]

Kjudoon, on 29 October 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

It won't be implemented for another week. so he can't 'fix it next patch'.

When people say "next", it usually means "the one after this one". Like "next Saturday" means the Saturday after this Saturday. I hope that satisfies your need for semantics.

Kjudoon, on 29 October 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Also, out of all the arms on the CPLTs the K2 is by far the smallest Now the other 3 regular variants need those air conditioners bolted on better.

Actually, they need smaller arms, but it's irrelevant anyway, because I'm talking specifically about making it worthwhile to equip PPC's in the CPLT-K2's arms. And a major step towards making it worthwhile, would be to give it an armour bonus or internal structure bonus. The same goes for any mech that is often disarmed, such as the CN9.

Kjudoon, on 29 October 2014 - 02:19 AM, said:

Also, these quirks are not designed to make a 'better meta', but make other builds and mechs equal to the meta so they get played more.

A blatantly false statement, and I don't have time to go into it, but it's explained by Russ elsewhere. The DRG-5N would not get an AC2 bonus if they were trying to make the new quirks fit the current meta. The AC2 is currently worthless, they're trying to make it viable with the quirks. Same with all the mechs getting pulse laser bonuses and small laser bonuses.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 02:16 AM, said:

It has no character, no unique feel as a mech, it's just a frankenstein with huge, worthless arms that people will just strip of armour and either leave empty or keep medium lasers in for giggles.

Oddly, I feel similar feeling towards the Jager....well the no character part and no unique feel part. I had Jagers, hated them, sold them. The K2 has its issues, but I always liked it better. The Jager was always a slow ugly slab with stubby arms. Granted this is all my opinon and such things are subjective.

The Jager does do dual ballistics really nice though, but I just can't bare to drive one.

Tahribator, on 29 October 2014 - 02:28 AM, said:

It's really weird. K2 is one of the best heavy PPC platforms in the game, yet it gets a bonus for mediums lasers? A bonus for a weapon that can only be considered as a backup weapon in this 'Mech?

Yea, the perk setup was clearly made to bolster the current preffered loadout (ballistics with backup MLasers) and not made to improve the intendid lore setup to the point of being viable. That is weird because it is the exact opposite of what I thought the perks were going for.

[Alistair Winter]

MeiSooHaityu, on 29 October 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

Oddly, I feel similar feeling towards the Jager....well the no character part and no unique feel part. I had Jagers, hated them, sold them. The K2 has its issues, but I always liked it better. The Jager was always a slow ugly slab with stubby arms. Granted this is all my opinon and such things are subjective.
The Jager does do dual ballistics really nice though, but I just can't bare to drive one.

Well, I'm in the same boat as you. I had the Jagers, hated them, sold them. The most important factor was the fact that they're ugly and they lack character. The only thing that would have remedied this, would have been if the Jager could be equipped with 4 long barelled weapons, to make it look like a walking AA gun, as it's supposed to be. But the guns on the Jager in MWO look way too small, and 3xUAC5 is much better than any Quad ballistic build anyway.

Actually, I did run 4xUAC5 quite a bit, because it looked awesome and it would smash anything that dared to brawl with it.... for about 30 seconds, untill it ran out of ammo. But the novelty of that troll build quickly went away.

So I went back to the CPLT-K2. But to put big ballistics on the K2 is like... using the CN9 as a zombie mech with no ballistic weapon. Or like using the CPLT-A1 as a Streakboat. Or like using the Atlas RS as a PPC boat. Or putting an AC20 on the RVN-4X. To me, it's abhorrent. It's gaming the system in a really ugly way. At that point, we may as well drink magical potions that turn us into pirates, WoW style.

Yeah, I'm a Battletech hipster / purist, I guess.

[Kjudoon]

Alistair Winter, on 29 October 2014 - 02:32 AM, said:

When people say "next", it usually means "the one after this one". Like "next Saturday" means the Saturday after this Saturday. I hope that satisfies your need for semantics.


Actually, they need smaller arms, but it's irrelevant anyway, because I'm talking specifically about making it worthwhile to equip PPC's in the CPLT-K2's arms. And a major step towards making it worthwhile, would be to give it an armour bonus or internal structure bonus. The same goes for any mech that is often disarmed, such as the CN9.


A blatantly false statement, and I don't have time to go into it, but it's explained by Russ elsewhere. The DRG-5N would not get an AC2 bonus if they were trying to make the new quirks fit the current meta. The AC2 is currently worthless, they're trying to make it viable with the quirks. Same with all the mechs getting pulse laser bonuses and small laser bonuses.

Upshot: you're mad you can't game the system to out meta the current meta on this mech. I'm not the one playing semantic games. I'm working towards clarity here. Also, Don't call my statement false when you then go and say approximately what I said in inarticulate terms.

"make other builds and mechs equal to the meta so they get played more"

means exactly the same as:

"they're trying to make it viable with the quirks"

[Alistair Winter]

Kjudoon, on 29 October 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

Upshot: you're mad you can't game the system to out meta the current meta on this mech.

Obviously not the case. Wanting to see mechs used more like their original concept in Battletech is not a desire to game the system.

Kjudoon, on 29 October 2014 - 02:43 AM, said:

I'm not the one playing semantic games. I'm working towards clarity here. Also, Don't call my statement false when you then go and say approximately what I said in inarticulate terms.
"make other builds and mechs equal to the meta so they get played more"
means exactly the same as:
"they're trying to make it viable with the quirks"

I'll not waste more time on that stuff. Agree to disagree.