24 replies to this topic

[MadMaxMKII]

After more than 6000 games I was wondering how exactly the armor value is working. I just had a game in my Atlas where my unharmed right torso whith gauss was destroyed with a single alpha of a hunchback with ac20 and 3 ML. the torso has 76 armor, the alpha causes 35 dmg, how could that happen? i thought befor weapons will be destroyed, the armor must have been gone.

[Bilbo]

Something else hit you at or about the same time.

[The Boz]

He hit you in the back? (possibly in a back pixel on the front side)

[MadMaxMKII]

Bilbo, on 29 October 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

Something else hit you at or about the same time.

must have been pretty unlucky conditions than, but I am sure there was only him.

The Boz, on 29 October 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

He hit you in the back? (possibly in a back pixel on the front side)

no, frontal damage. the torso wasnt gone, but the gauss destroyed.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 29 October 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

He hit you in the back? (possibly in a back pixel on the front side)

Twisted... but not unheard of.

[0bsidion]

The most likely possibility is that the gauss rifle was destroyed and exploded, combined with the damage already done by the AC/20 is probably more than enough to take out a torso. A lucky direct hit to a weapon can damage it even on a fully healthy section, and gauss rifles explode when destroyed.

[Willard Phule]

Unlikely as it is, I suspect it was a "critical hit."

I'm not 100% on how critical hits work in MW:O, but I've been experimenting with it since the TCs came out.

In BT, virtually every shot has a chance to make a critical hit based on your dice roll, regardless of how much armor you have in a given location. Sure, once the armor's gone, critical hits are pretty much guaranteed....but you can still do it before then. That's why AP ammo and LBX cannons are so popular.

I think it works in a similar fashion here, except the chance at a critical hit before the armor is breached seems quite a bit higher. If I were to fathom a guess, I'd say that each weapon has a base % chance of causing a critical hit. That percentage is decreased by the amount of armor remaining on a location. Targeting Computers increase that chance by adding from +7.25% (TC1) to +12.50% (TC7) on the back end of the equation.

That doesn't explain what you were describing, though. I have a hunch that each weapon has a different base % for critical hits. Some weapons are a LOT better at hitting criticals than others. AC20, all the LBX ACs and Pulse Lasers seem to have the highest chance. CERLLs, CERMLs, CERSLs and CERPPCs seem to really benefit from a TC3 or higher. That's about all I can tell you except that I'm not entirely sure there isn't a glitch in the works somewhere.

Technically speaking, the TC isn't supposed to increase the % chance of a critical hit from LBX autocannons. Since the only 'mechs that can fit a TC are Clan Mechs, this limits them to being used with CLBX autocannons. I've noticed that with the builds I use LBX cannons on, the critical hit percentage significantly increases when I add a TC. Granted, I'm also using CERMLs with those builds, so it's hard to tell what's getting all the crits. However, it bears further analysis.

[Chip Danger]

0bsidion, on 29 October 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

The most likely possibility is that the gauss rifle was destroyed and exploded, combined with the damage already done by the AC/20 is probably more than enough to take out a torso. A lucky direct hit to a weapon can damage it even on a fully healthy section, and gauss rifles explode when destroyed.

It was this a Gauss rifle explosion is more then enough to strip the side of an Atlas.

[Athalus]

0bsidion, on 29 October 2014 - 06:28 AM, said:

The most likely possibility is that the gauss rifle was destroyed and exploded, combined with the damage already done by the AC/20 is probably more than enough to take out a torso. A lucky direct hit to a weapon can damage it even on a fully healthy section, and gauss rifles explode when destroyed.

Last time I checked through-armour criticals weren't a thing in MW:O?

[Mcgral18]

Athalus, on 29 October 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

Last time I checked through-armour criticals weren't a thing in MW:O?

There aren't through armour crits, but if a FLD weapon destroys the armour and touches the IS, you'll deal full crit damage.

That is to say, if an AC20 hits a RT with 19 armour, he can still deal 10 damage if he rolls 3 crits(1 base damage+3 per crit, 15% of 20)

So, if you have less than 20 rear armour, and it hit the rear, byebye Gauss.

[Heffey]

Willard Phule, on 29 October 2014 - 07:15 AM, said:

Unlikely as it is, I suspect it was a "critical hit."

There's no such thing as through armor crits in MWO.

[Creovex]

James T Kirk., on 29 October 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

It was this a Gauss rifle explosion is more then enough to strip the side of an Atlas.

^^^ I have had this exact same scenario a few times (hence why I removed Gauss from my Atlas builds)

[MadMaxMKII]

thx for the replies. so i guess we can't be sure how it exactly works.

[Bilbo]

MadMaxMKII, on 29 October 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

thx for the replies. so i guess we can't be sure how it exactly works.

We know how it works. We just can't tell exactly what happened in your case with the information provided.

[0bsidion]

Athalus, on 29 October 2014 - 07:23 AM, said:

Last time I checked through-armour criticals weren't a thing in MW:O?

It doesn't have to pierce the armor to destroy the weapon, as most weapons are exposed to direct hits and have their own health values. Crits aren't necessary. This isn't noticeable in normal circumstances because the section takes the hit more often than not and will be destroyed first, but on rare occasions, especially with a high damage pinpoint weapon like an AC 20, the weapon will be taken out before the section.

It seems to happen more often on the Atlas than any other mech, especially for torso mounted ballistics, and it's quite frustrating. Don't believe me? Try running a double LBX10 Atlas build for about 10 matches and pay attention to when you lose your LBX vs when you lose the torso armor and have exposed internals.

[Odins Fist]

I have lost NOTHING but the Gauss rifle in a side torso of an Atlas before.
(MEANING) I was hit, side torso still has Armor (front and back, and Gauss rifle is knocked out.

But that's when I still ran that terrible glass jaw Gauss in an Atlas.
It went from a beautiful weapon to a fragile little flower overnight.

Then a recharge mechanic was added.

[MadMaxMKII]

Bilbo, on 29 October 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

We know how it works. We just can't tell exactly what happened in your case with the information provided.

mhhh, i dont have more info. but how do u know what u know so far? are there some official statements, links?

[Malcolm Vordermark]

There was an old bug where projectiles would sometimes register on the rear armor instead of the front, despite actually hitting the front. Thought they squashed that one, haven't seen that happen in a long time.

[Bilbo]

MadMaxMKII, on 29 October 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

mhhh, i dont have more info. but how do u know what u know so far? are there some official statements, links?

I've been here a while. There are official statements on the mechanics, but I can't be bothered to find them for you.

[Reno Blade]

0bsidion, on 29 October 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

It doesn't have to pierce the armor to destroy the weapon, as most weapons are exposed to direct hits and have their own health values. Crits aren't necessary. This isn't noticeable in normal circumstances because the section takes the hit more often than not and will be destroyed first, but on rare occasions, especially with a high damage pinpoint weapon like an AC 20, the weapon will be taken out before the section.

It seems to happen more often on the Atlas than any other mech, especially for torso mounted ballistics, and it's quite frustrating. Don't believe me? Try running a double LBX10 Atlas build for about 10 matches and pay attention to when you lose your LBX vs when you lose the torso armor and have exposed internals.

first rule:
If you have still armor (front and back for torso) after the damage is applied, there is no roll for a crit.

second rule:
if the armor is breached, or you don't have any armor, the internal structure is damaged by the remaining damage and there will be a roll if there is a crit (1x, 2x or 3x).

third rule:
critical damage depends on the weapon damage, not the actual inflicted damage.
An AC20 piercing a section with 19 armor will inflict 1 damage to internal structure
if there is a crit, it will deal 20 points of damage to the crit item (like a Gauss with 3 health, or a Ammo with 10 health, or even a shoulder actuator for 10 health)
If you have crit an item, then 15% of that damage is also dealt to internal structure.
crit chance is higher for LBX, MG, Flamer and clan targeting computer.

fourth rule:
if a section (arm, leg or side torso) is destroyed and you hit the section, you will only transfere 50% of the damage to the next inward section
going from leg/arm to side torso and then towards center torso.
Hit to a destroyed arm will transfer 50% to a torso and if that is destroyed, the damage is further reduced by half to deal 25% to the Center torso.

note: each tick of a laser (roughly every 0.2 damage), each pellet of LBX or UAC, Missile or MG/Flamer will be rolled seperately for crits.

More information about crits can be found here:
http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

edit:
from the linked thread:

Edited by Reno Blade, 29 October 2014 - 08:31 AM.