42 replies to this topic

[Rebas Kradd]

Want ten-minute wait times? That's what we'll get if we add any more MM factors to the equation.

If OP is in a Dire Wolf all the time, I'm gonna laugh.

[Thrystblade]

Rebas Kradd, on 29 October 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:

Want ten-minute wait times? That's what we'll get if we add any more MM factors to the equation.

If OP is in a Dire Wolf all the time, I'm gonna laugh.

https://mwomercs.com...ile/Thrystblade

You might note that my hammer jammer is an ecm mech.

I don't enjoy assaults very much any more because if my team doesn't have ECM (which is happening more and more and more often nowadays), our assault lance gets utterly wrecked by every lrm ever produced.

As for the rest of the thread, 'hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr just use ecm yourself'.

Right, and just forget about using the timber wolf's I spent 50 bucks on. Cool idea, bro. How about expecting a game that is exclusively PvP to actually balance the elements in pvp.

If your entire team has to hide in tunnels because you don't have ecm and the enemy does, that aint balanced. That's just bullshit.

And god forbid it happens on an open map. Then you're just roflstomped with absolutely no way to counter it.

[Krivvan]

Thrystblade, on 29 October 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

https://mwomercs.com...ile/Thrystblade

That doesn't work. Unless you give me your password.

Thrystblade, on 29 October 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

If your entire team has to hide in tunnels because you don't have ecm and the enemy does, that aint balanced. That's just bullshit.

Entire teams need to use cover anyways and trade and poke and know when to go for a push. If you think LRMs are bad, imagine 3 Assaults and 3 Heavies all immediately turning towards you in particular and firing with Gauss and Lasers. That's why LRMs aren't all that impressive in large group games.

Edited by Krivvan, 29 October 2014 - 03:38 PM.

[Mystere]

Why limit ourselves to ECM?

Why not also distribute gauss rifles? People complain about that.

Why not have equal number of Dire Wolves? People complain about that too.

In fact, why not distribute XXX where XXX is anything and everything in MWO?

Thrystblade, on 29 October 2014 - 05:42 AM, said:

If the enemy team has ecm, and you don't, you lose. 90% of the goddamn time.

Citation needed.

Edited by Mystere, 29 October 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[cSand]

Mystere, on 29 October 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Why limit ourselves to ECM?

Why not also distribute gauss rifles? People complain about that.

Why not have equal number of Dire Wolves? People complain about that too.

In fact, why not distribute XXX where XXX is anything and everything in MWO?



Citation needed.

[Thrystblade]

Mystere, on 29 October 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

Why limit ourselves to ECM?

Why not also distribute gauss rifles? People complain about that.

Why not have equal number of Dire Wolves? People complain about that too.

In fact, why not distribute XXX where XXX is anything and everything in MWO?



Citation needed.

That's a really disingenuous, rather ******** argument.

We already have each and every match chosen by the weights of the mechs. One light lance, one lance comprised of mediums/heavies and another comprised of heavy/assaults.

Why? Because if one team gets six assault mechs and the other team only gets two, the team with more assault mechs basically wins by default.

No ecm vs No ecm is perfectly fine. 2 ecm vs 1 ecm is fine. 4 ecm vs 2 ecm is fine. But 1-4 ecm vs NO ECM is what makes matches unbearable, stupid, and pointless. You lose the vast, vast majority of the time, because ECM is the only way to counteract LRMs.

[Mystere]

Thrystblade, on 30 October 2014 - 02:24 AM, said:

That's a really disingenuous, rather ******** argument.

We already have each and every match chosen by the weights of the mechs. One light lance, one lance comprised of mediums/heavies and another comprised of heavy/assaults.

Why? Because if one team gets six assault mechs and the other team only gets two, the team with more assault mechs basically wins by default.

No ecm vs No ecm is perfectly fine. 2 ecm vs 1 ecm is fine. 4 ecm vs 2 ecm is fine. But 1-4 ecm vs NO ECM is what makes matches unbearable, stupid, and pointless. You lose the vast, vast majority of the time, because ECM is the only way to counteract LRMs.

Once again, citation needed, especially because I have been in a lot of matches where the losing side had no ECM while the winning side had at least one. I can't be that special of a snowflake, can I?

As for counteracting LRMs, what about terrain cover and Radar DEP Module?

[Yosharian]

No really, every team should have at least 1 ECM. I'm not so sure about the 'more ECM wins' argument, but if you're in a full 12 man team and you have NO ecm AT ALL, then you're just toast. It happened yesterday, we basically lost automatically. And no we couldn't use terrain, we were on the caldera map, no terrain available there that stops LRM reliably.

I don't see how the matchmaker can effectively solve this solution reliably though. There won't be enough ECM mechs to go around.

Edited by Yosharian, 30 October 2014 - 07:03 AM.

[Thrystblade]

Yosharian, on 30 October 2014 - 07:02 AM, said:

No really, every team should have at least 1 ECM. I'm not so sure about the 'more ECM wins' argument, but if you're in a full 12 man team and you have NO ecm AT ALL, then you're just toast. It happened yesterday, we basically lost automatically. And no we couldn't use terrain, we were on the caldera map, no terrain available there that stops LRM reliably.

I don't see how the matchmaker can effectively solve this solution reliably though. There won't be enough ECM mechs to go around.

It doesn't have to match ecm for ecm. Just not have matches where one team has ECM and the other has none.

So even if there are only two ecm mechs in the entire game that are trying to find a match at that time, it puts them on opposite teams of the same match.

You could have four ecm mechs on one team, and if the other team has ONE ecm mech, they can still protect that mech, move under its cover, and be perfectly fine.

Same thing if both teams have no ecm.

It's only when one team has no ecm and the other team does that it becomes lurmwarrior. There's just no way to survive when they have the advantage of free lrm fire without worry of counter-attack.

Edited by Thrystblade, 30 October 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[Livewyr]

Oh look, another "balance ECM by MM thread"

Thread should have ended with 1st reply: Balance the ECM itself.

[Almond Brown]

Glythe, on 29 October 2014 - 09:07 AM, said:

We asked for ECM match making and they said no have Elo match making instead.


Three things are needed (well I guess technically the absence of Elo is #4) for a good MM

1) Weight balancing within 50 ish tons
2) Ecm balancing with a +- 1 variance
3) Clan mech balancing

4) Wait for an Eternity for 1-3 to happen.

[Piney II]

Thrystblade, on 30 October 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

It's only when one team has no ecm and the other team does that it becomes lurmwarrior. There's just no way to survive when they have the advantage of free lrm fire without worry of counter-attack.

The solution to this is very simple: Be a TEAM PLAYER and carry the ECM on your mech - problem solved.

This way you will be assured of ECM coverage each and EVERY match you bring your ECM equipped mech into.

If you don't want to run an ECM equipped mech, don't QQ when the team drops without ECM. It's the luck of the draw.

Edited by Piney, 30 October 2014 - 07:34 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Thrystblade, on 29 October 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

stuff

And god forbid it happens on an open map. Then you're just roflstomped with absolutely no way to counter it.

I am getting an Image... It is a ... Steering Wheel.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ok I don't care for how ECM works at all. It is OP. But keep letting Folks with it believe it is a effective damage shield from my point and click weapons and dumbfire SRMs.

[Haji1096]

There is a very simple way to counter a team with ECM and LRMS.

Throttle up, Rally, and push into the enemy team together as fast as possible.

Of course this doesn't happen in solo queue so it must be ECM's fault.

[Dazzer]

I often thought that ECM should be a option for all mech , you add it like tag or AMS but make it heavy 5 tons or more so you really have to think do I take that PPC or a ECM ?

As for the existing mechs with ECM to keep them special make them to have free ECM built right in to the frame , no weight cost.

[nehebkau]

I wanna fire and hit things without getting hit at all... that the LRM mantra and its ok....

The ECM mantra ... I wanna fire at things without getting hit instantly ... and thats wrong..


LRM users .. go figure.

[nehebkau]

Did i just win a thread?

[bobF]

Tired of these ECM whine threads. ECM has a hard counter, it's called UAV. If you're too cheap to buy one, or too noob to get into position to launch one, or too incompetent to suggest in team chat that a light should launch one (they will even without you asking) then that's your own lack of skill. Not a gross game imbalance. Everyone whines about ECM and Lurms and no one ever mentions how UAV, the holy sight of the gods themselves, foils even cover and the Jesus Box.

2ldr: git gud with UAV.

[Haji1096]

Yes, ECM does need to be balanced. If it was equitable on every mech, every build would incorporate it.

However, if you complain that your team does not have ECM, you should have brought ECM.

If ECM is so powerful, why did you choose a mech that doesn't have it ?