126 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Josef Nader, on 03 November 2014 - 09:20 AM, said:

Nerfing teamwork by making it nearly impossible for IDF to happen in pugs just so you only die to good, honorable direct fire is dumb.

Worse than dumb, it's "Scrub". It's literally, "I don't know how to or don't like to play that way so I am going to petition to get the game changed to how I WANT to play."

[Livewyr]

Mercules, on 03 November 2014 - 08:06 AM, said:

No, but it does make taking LRMs into a PuG queue a "Nope". and since they are typically "Nope" in group queues they just become a "Nope" across the board. 400m/s is still a losing proposition in directed fire since you will have to stare at a target that is twisting the already spreading damage across their torso while they turn back and fire at your stationary CT with gauss/AC/PPC.

The time when LRMs are solid (other than players who walk out into the open for you) is when you are about 200-400 meters from the enemy with the teams ridge humping and you can drop them just over the ridge with short lock ons. Limiting the targeting will remove the only good use of them since you will rarely ever have someone doing that with a tag and holding it there.

Taking LRMs into a solo queue is already a "nope." (At least in my bracket..19/20 times I see the LRM boats with the lowest scores.)

Setting the speed at 400m/s (almost 3 times faster) increases their effective range by that much.
Turning ECM to only blocking non-LoS locks also increases the LRMs effective window. (They don't have to just hope the enemy didn't bring 4 ECMs when they get into a match.)
Using TAG/Narc as the only method of IDF sets them a dedicated spotter with the ability to determine good opportunities and save the missile boat some ammo. (Do people still bring 10-12 tons of ammo for missiles?)

I firmly believe with the above changes, missile accuracy would increase drastically, and you would see far less of the useless Atlas LRM45 boats sitting back and doing little good for their team. (You might see some more catapults and trebuchets who can use maneuverability to get LoS locks where they could not before...without giving everyone a constant laser trace back to their position.)

[Almond Brown]

Aresye, on 02 November 2014 - 10:15 PM, said:

I've never like the shared targeting. I feel it takes part of role warfare away from lights and mediums, because everybody can do it. With that, it takes away the monetary value of special bonuses, because requiring more of a dedicated role means that bonuses can be increased.

It also pretty much screws you over if you're the last guy on the team. It doesn't matter if those 4 remaining mechs are cored. It doesn't matter if they're all spread out. As soon as one sees you, the rest come swarming in, which takes away the importance of teamwork and communication for them, and pretty much blows your chances of being able to pull a victory out of defeat.

In other words, it's free teamwork with no effort, and while it would obviously take some adjustment to get used to it, I think removing shared targeting would greatly increase the fun of the game.

More focus on teamwork, more focus on role warfare, more chances of being able to pull off a comeback, less snowballing effect (aka less stomps), more cautionary play, longer/closer games, and last but not least: Less kill stealing and bumper Mechs style game play for tournaments.

Certainly the whole idea of "everyone" carrying a Master C3 unit for FREE is troublesome, but as noted, a C3 network doesn't work like many think it does in TT.

What would have been nice, and not likely to ever happen, is that a Spotters Direct LoS info should ONLY go to those units carrying a C3 slave unit (1.5t). That way, if you carry missiles, a C3 slave would gain you indirect fire for any and all Direct LoS spots provided, but anyone Mech without a C3 slave unit would not get the R function.

That change alone would alter the LRM Rain game to one that is more Team orientated but based on provision of said function and get away from the "FREE Locks for All" we have now.

I read where AMS is getting 2X for I.S. They should have reduced the ammo pay loads for LRM's by 50% instead, or Both.

[TamCoan]

I've been dropping AMS from most of my mechs because LRMs just aren't that scarry anymore. I'd rather use the tonnage for something helpful to my complete build. I usually only go with the radar derp module. Sure there will be times that you lose to a heavy LRM group, it happens.

Biggest key is to be map aware and make sure you don't get split off from your team. If a single light/medium flanks and actually engages you, chances are there is either something bigger over the hill or LRMs are inc. Stop fighting on his terms! Side note to the OP, radar derp will instantly remove you from the enemies target lock if you get behind him. (Other modules like lock retention affects that, but most people no longer take those.) Radar derp is a must have.

[Almond Brown]

TamCoan, on 03 November 2014 - 09:37 AM, said:

I've been dropping AMS from most of my mechs because LRMs just aren't that scarry anymore. I'd rather use the tonnage for something helpful to my complete build. I usually only go with the radar derp module. Sure there will be times that you lose to a heavy LRM group, it happens.

Biggest key is to be map aware and make sure you don't get split off from your team. If a single light/medium flanks and actually engages you, chances are there is either something bigger over the hill or LRMs are inc. Stop fighting on his terms! Side note to the OP, radar derp will instantly remove you from the enemies target lock if you get behind him. (Other modules like lock retention affects that, but most people no longer take those.) Radar derp is a must have.

Well again, only a season vet can afford Radar Derp. 15000 GXP and 6 million C-bills is a tall order for a player just out of the academy, or even 3-6 months in.

Not everyone has 25,600,000,000,000,000 cbills and 5,000,000,000,000,000,000 GXP lying around.

P.S. Yes those are stupid #'s but so is 15000 GXP and 6 million C-bills when you don't have it and won't (for various reasons) anytime soon.

Edited by Almond Brown, 03 November 2014 - 09:44 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Apnu, on 03 November 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

I was also in CB, we didn't have ECM back then. Those K2s were damn annoying! I wasn't running LRMs much then, mostly HBKs. I was very happy when the JM6's came out. I still dislike K2s because of CB. I know why people did it, we had only a few mechs back then, but those things were the kings of cheese.

When I read GaussPult, I saw:

and treated it as such.

[Threat Doc]

Apnu, on 03 November 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

Without indirect fire for LRMs, we'd never see them now that dual gauss & PPC direwhales are seen in every single PUG match.

True. Also, I think I may not have made myself clear about translating the rules from tabletop... I didn't mean anything about leaving OUT the Indirect Fire rules, but translating them to the spirit of the game rather than directly. What I outlined in my previous post is what I believe that would look like.

Quote

With the implementation of clan weapons, exposing yourself and waiting forever and a day (because of the LRM lock bug, or the ECM, psych-out bug where you get a lock but have to wait for the tone to confirm it and once the tone happens it disappears) LRM boats would be a joke. We'd get cored waiting for lock and missile travel time -- all while holding out own target locks.

Yeah, you know, it is funny that I can have an unlocked target on my screen for thirty seconds to a full minute and, the moment I go to give it some attention and get a lock, that lock immediately disappears. That pisses me off more than anything. And, Apnu, you're absolutely right that getting our own locks, and then waiting for travel time while we maintain our locks, would get us cored in no time at all. Still, there are some changes that should be made to the way LRMs and ECM work, to make it more like the SPIRIT of the board game, not exactly like it.

Quote

As much as people whine and moan about LRMs, the game's emphasis on pin-point damage, at distances comparable to and exceeding LRMs, make LRMs of the weakest weapon systems in the games. Only small lasers suck less than LRMs. Direct fire weapons are vastly superior to LRMs. Clan weapons more so.

I couldn't agree more!