281 replies to this topic

[Angus McFife VI]

MAVRICK64, on 01 November 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

This game is about team play. Yes, I do understand there are those who prefer playing alone but you cant just drop on a map and start playing. You have to stay with your team/lance, and you have to communicate with them - Situation awareness is a must in the game.

If your near your team or not, CLRMs still get to you. I remember a match in Canyon Network, I was typing to my team and then I got struck by a mech over the hill, I was around my entire team. Then, 3-4 clan mechs behind the hills just "skillfully" LRM'd me to death. The entire team was watching too, 2-3 mechs had AMS, one mech aside me had 2 AMS and I still died.

The problem is, this happens ALL THE TIME. Too many CLRMs out there. It's either you weaken them, make them heavier, or have an LRM limit.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 01 November 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[Noesis]

Dont LRM me please, on 01 November 2014 - 05:57 PM, said:

No they aren't. You obviously haven't played the game for at least 10 minutes to realize that almost everyone is spraying bullshit CLRMs allover the place.

I have played this game since closed beta and seen LRMs in various incarnations.

I can tell you with some experience that LRMs as a valid weapon set are fine. And that in making attempts to remove it as a viable weapon system you could destabalise the game back to sniper warrior online as a result.

The attirition factor of support fire being both direct and indirect now form a partenership with the brawler game also having a place now as a result.

There are multiple counters and techniques to avoid the impact of the applied use of LRM fire and I do not accept that Assaults should somehow be immune from LRMs or the notion that LRMs cannot be a viable weapon system irrepsepctive of skill levels. They are big lumbering mechs which if piloting incorrectly would be taken apart by artillery support. And piloting in a close brawl in my opinion takes more skill than aiming back at distance where a closed arc with zoom support at a Mech is not the same as maneuvering at close quarters, so should Direct fire support and that suppression also be removed from the game due to lower perceived skill levels?

You have used a very limited argument of one type of assualt mech in this thread apparently as the cause for arguments and perhaps dont understand that a heavily armoured and slow assault should be piloted with some awareness and forethought than expecting the game to conform to your style of play and then using forum warrior methodology of trying to win or for your own personal gain.

So yes LRMs are fine, please try to consider the bigger picture than just your cockpit perhaps.

Edited by Noesis, 01 November 2014 - 06:39 PM.

[PappySmurf]

This game is about team play. Yes, I do understand there are those who prefer playing alone but you cant just drop on a map and start playing. You have to stay with your team/lance, and you have to communicate with them - Situation awareness is a must in the game.

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And you would be right except for the fact most new and casual MWO players die in under 2 minutes of game play for the first few months so they have very little time per battle to learn the proper skills. LRM SPAM-ALPHA SHOT SPAM does not make it any easier for new players to learn MWO.

The TTK ratio is very low in MWO with mechs having paper armor and mechs having such OP firepower battle time is very short. Even in the older PC MechWarrior games a player might stay alive x10 what a player in MWO does per battle.

Edited by PappySmurf, 01 November 2014 - 06:29 PM.

[GentlemanBryan]

Remember, those who use team speak and are a member of a unit will always do better than those who are trying to play alone (communicate by typing). I would suggest downloading team speak and finding a unit to join and practice with them. I remember way-back-when I was playing alone lrms did get me most of the time, but after I joined a unit I learned all the maps and how to play “situation awareness”. I'm pretty good at avoiding lrms most of the time (not all of the time) Also, LRM’s are spec’d after LORE (will be on the next patch), so they are here to stay.

Edited by MAVRICK64, 01 November 2014 - 06:35 PM.

[Angus McFife VI]

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 06:28 PM, said:

I have played this game since closed beta and seen LRMs in various incarnations.

I can tell you with some experience that LRMs as a valid weapon set are fine. And that in making attempts to remove it as a viable weapon system you could destabalise the game back to sniper warrior online as a result.

The attirition factor of support fire being both direct and indirect now form a partenership with the brawler game also having a place now as a result.

There are multiple counters and techniques to avoid the impact of the applied use of LRM fire and I do not accept that Atlai should somehow be immune from LRMs or the notion that LRMs cannot be a viable weapon system irrepsepctive of skill levels. They are big lumbering mechs which if piloting incorrectly would be taken apart by artillery support. And piloting in a close brawl in my opinion takes more skill than aiming back at distance where a closed arc with zoom support at a Mech is not the same as maneuvering at close quarters, so should Direct fire support and that suppression also be removed from the game due to lower perceived skill levels?

You have used a very limited argument of one Mech apparently as your cause for arguments and perhaps dont understand that a heavily armoured and slow assault should be piloted with some awareness and forethought than expecting the game to conform to your style of game in a forum warrior methodology of trying to win.

So yes LRMs are fine, please try to consider the bigger picture than just your cockpit perhaps.

But haven't you realized, LRMs are being used as ever before. Almost every clan mech has CLRMs and why are we not mentioning the "meta" dire wolf, 2 gauss and 2 PPC. I have already heard of this argument millions of times, I know, yes, LRMs are supposed to kill assault and heavier mechs, but when every god damn player is running around launching this stuff at everything, the fighting becomes 12-0 or 12-2 matches. Never before, have I seen such team wipeouts like this before the clans. CLRMs are ruling the battlefield and in my opinion we need less of them because the combat is getting dull. Lock-on, fire. Lock-on, fire.

[PappySmurf]

Remember, those who use team speak and are a member of a unit will always do better than those who are trying to play alone (communicate by typing). I would suggest downloading team speak and finding a unit to join and practice with them. I remember way-back-when I was playing alone lrms did get me most of the time, but after I joined a unit I learned all the maps and how to play “situation awareness”. I'm pretty good at avoiding lrms most of the time (not all of the time) Also, LRM’s are spec’d after LORE (will be on the next patch), so they are here to stay.

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I have played solo and group play for 3 years I have set there and LRM players to death in a matter of seconds so please don't tell me how balanced LRMS are and Clrms are even worse balanced. One player effective with the R button can totally annihilate a enemy team in a matter of minutes and in group play its even worse.

Plus this is MWO no one cares about TT/cannon/MechWarrior rules and 99% of the time they don't work in actual gameplay that's why the R button needs to go bye bye unless a command mech is in the battle to correlated the target signal.

Edited by PappySmurf, 01 November 2014 - 06:42 PM.

[Angus McFife VI]

In every match I'm in, mark this, it' either the Dire Wolf, or the LRM boat getting the highest damage around 500-1200 damage. It's ridiculous. Now, no where in my argument did I saw "LRMs in general", I said CLRMs. IS LRMs are "Dumber" and fly slowly(slower).

[Noesis]

I dont see the same aspect of Lurmaggeddon and any team who heavily skews themselves using Lurm support can be easily outgunned in DPS at closer range. If there are situational aspects on maps that perhaps lend to LRM support then dont play into the game of the LRM user and use alternative methods, cover and other techniques so they have to play your game or provide a way in which you can approach or lure them into a close fight. This where both direct fire support and close quarters will significantly out perform LRM boats. Also shoot the spotters to remove the force multiplier effects and eyes as opposed to ignoring them.

Few tactics game solved. And if anything if I notice a team who is LRM heavy I smile knowing that with the right advance on their position they are toast.

Otherwise more manageable numbers of LRMs can be easily manged with cover, patience, counter tools, your own supression fire.

Also in the forthcoming patch LRM damage will be reduced from 1.1 to 1.0 and AMS ammo will be increased.

So to repeat and to counter the scaremongering of the threads title, LRMs are fine and are not out of control.

[GentlemanBryan]

Again, this game is about team playing. Once CW comes out you will see a lot of these complaints go away. Because 90% of the players in CW belong to a unit/lance and have practice together.

[Angus McFife VI]

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

I dont see the same aspect of Lurmaggeddon and any team who heavily skews themselves using Lurm support can be easily outgunned in DPS at closer range. If there are situational aspects on maps that perhaps lend to LRM support then dont play into the game of the LRM user and use alternative methods, cover and other techniques so they have to play your game or provide a way in which you can approach or lure them into a close fight. This where both direct fire support and close quarters will significantly out perform LRM boats. Also shoot the spotters to remove the force multiplier effects and eyes as opposed to ignoring them.

Few tactics game solved. And if anything if I notice a team who is LRM heavy I smile knowing that with the right advance on their position they are toast.

Otherwise more manageable numbers of LRMs can be easily manged with cover, patience, counter tools, your own supression fire.

Also in the forthcoming patch LRM damage will be reduced from 1.1 to 1.0 and AMS ammo will be increased.

So to repeat and to counter the scaremongering of the threads title, LRMs are fine and are not out of control.

So in english, your basically saying that "Direct fire is better than LRMs when close". Yeah, great. Ever thought that maybe LRMs are better at long range? Consider the following. Maybe, you have to walk to the LRM boats first. Maybe, they have light mechs. Maybe, the light mech brought a few mechs with him, maybe 5-6. Maybe they fight us, and then the LRM boats, 800m away, the other 6 mechs, rain hell, focusing 6 LRMs at 1 target at a time, winning every fight. I'm really saying that ALL mechs have CLRMs but the majority do. Oh, dont forget, CLRMs can actually do something too at close range, and that all clan mechs are faster than Inner Sphere mechs (Besides lights and assaults, the mechs that are never LRM boats).

[PappySmurf]

Again, this game is about team playing. Once CW comes out you will see a lot of these complaints go away. Because 90% of the players in CW belong to a unit/lance and have practice together.

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Nice dream there bro but even IF!!!!!! CW comes out it will be shallow and lame.It wont be like MWL or NBT Planetary was with drop decks and in-depth meta.

Plus with only a little over 5000 dedicated MWO players left how are teams going to form and recruit the FORUMS? ROFL
That's why we had the MSN Gamming Zone so players could chat train recruit players and play in real Planetary and Solaris leagues.

I think MWO will die off before it becomes a true MechWarrior game with in-depth game play and true meta.

[WDBDBloodyTriggerZ]

MAVRICK64, on 01 November 2014 - 06:49 PM, said:

Again, this game is about team playing. Once CW comes out you will see a lot of these complaints go away. Because 90% of the players in CW belong to a unit/lance and have practice together.

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

Few tactics game solved. And if anything if I notice a team who is LRM heavy I smile knowing that with the right advance on their position they are toast.

Also in the forthcoming patch LRM damage will be reduced from 1.1 to 1.0 and AMS ammo will be increased.

DAM DUDE 1.1 TO 1.0 THATS HUGE!

And you say advance to their position. How the hell are you going to advance if youre getting rained on the whole damn time. You cant even see where you are going.
MAVRICK64 you swear like your team can help you against an lrm boat you cant even see. THEY CANT!

[Noesis]

Dont LRM me please, on 01 November 2014 - 06:55 PM, said:

So in english, your basically saying that "Direct fire is better than LRMs when close". Yeah, great. Ever thought that maybe LRMs are better at long range? Consider the following. Maybe, you have to walk to the LRM boats first. Maybe, they have light mechs. Maybe, the light mech brought a few mechs with him, maybe 5-6. Maybe they fight us, and then the LRM boats, 800m away, the other 6 mechs, rain hell, focusing 6 LRMs at 1 target at a time, winning every fight. I'm really saying that ALL mechs have CLRMs but the majority do. Oh, dont forget, CLRMs can actually do something too at close range, and that all clan mechs are faster than Inner Sphere mechs (Besides lights and assaults, the mechs that are never LRM boats).

Maybe ... maybe ... what if .... maybe .... you could say the same for any weapon system with situational responses. It is your task to try and out think and use tactics to outperform your opponent. This prevents the idea of having to think of the game as a balance of scales and that with a bit of thought you can respond to this "big threat" you seem to be having trouble with.

So yes there are effective ways of dealing with LRMs, maybe try a few and perhaps get your calculator out to consider that other mechs can be much more better configured for close quarter firepower than LRM boats.

The argument that Clans can fire at close range then is perhaps a consideration but this drops off very quickly under the minimum range to make their overall effective DPS considerably less. They will at best be comparable to direct support builds but overall less or even much less with close quarter configurations. So yes I will contest and continue to uphold that in the close quarter environment having too many LRM boats will be a weakness in comparison to other drop configs.

[Angus McFife VI]

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

Maybe ... maybe ... what if .... maybe .... you could say the same for any weapon system with situational responses. It is your task to try and out think and use tactics to outperform your opponent. This prevents the idea of having to think of the game as a balance of scales and that with a bit of thought you can respond to this "big threat" you seem to be having trouble with.

So yes there are effective ways of dealing with LRMs, maybe try a few and perhaps get your calculator out to consider that other mechs can be much more better configured for close quarter firepower than LRM boats.

The argument that Clans can fire at close range then is perhaps a consideration but this drops off very quickly under the minimum range to make their overall effective DPS considerably less. They will at best be comparable to direct support builds but overall less or even much less with close quarter configurations. So yes I will contest and continue to uphold that in the close quarter environment having too many LRM boats will be a weakness in comparison to other drop configs.

Oh man, when I said "maybe you have to walk to your opponents" and contined with the maybes, I was being sarcastic, saying that this thing happens every match. You have to walk to the LRM boats, giving them plently of time to LRM you up your ass. Then, you have other mechs to deal with. The CLRMs give LRM boats an extreme advantage however, they spam your screen beyond aiming capability and then they run away really fast (Stormcrows specifically) and then spam you some more. Yeah, a well placed plan can work, but how do you get 11 people to do your bidding? You don't, what happens is 11 mechs go out in open battle, improvise, and the first shot win, which is Dual Gauss and CLRMs.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 01 November 2014 - 07:12 PM.

[GentlemanBryan]

I am optimistic about MWO surviving. I will say I was worried about MWO last year, but the last 4-5 months PGI has communicated with us (i.e. road map to CW) and made positive progress (i.e. New CLAN/IS mechs, maps, and nice events on the weekends). Let’s be happy that we have mechwarrior (I've been playing since the 1^st game).

It’s going to get very exciting over the next couple of months. New stuff is coming out – let’s stay optimistic and see what happens.

[WDBDBloodyTriggerZ]

MAVRICK64, on 01 November 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

I am optimistic about MWO surviving. I will say I was worried about MWO last year, but the last 4-5 months PGI has communicated with us (i.e. road map to CW) and made positive progress (i.e. New CLAN/IS mechs, maps, and nice events on the weekends). Let’s be happy that we have mechwarrior (I've been playing since the 1^st game).

It’s going to get very exciting over the next couple of months. New stuff is coming out – let’s stay optimistic and see what happens.

Yeah its getting great for LRM boats and nothing else.

[Summon3r]

LRM's need something done to them there is no doubt about it. dunno what but something. ill offer, maintained line of sight? less arc? i dunno something tho

[Angus McFife VI]

MAVRICK64, on 01 November 2014 - 07:11 PM, said:

I am optimistic about MWO surviving. I will say I was worried about MWO last year, but the last 4-5 months PGI has communicated with us (i.e. road map to CW) and made positive progress (i.e. New CLAN/IS mechs, maps, and nice events on the weekends). Let’s be happy that we have mechwarrior (I've been playing since the 1^st game).

It’s going to get very exciting over the next couple of months. New stuff is coming out – let’s stay optimistic and see what happens.

I hope so, I haven't found my ground on the progession on this game, but I do know that Dire Wolfs must be brought down and so as CLRMs in density.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 01 November 2014 - 07:17 PM.

[Noesis]

WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, on 01 November 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

DAM DUDE 1.1 TO 1.0 THATS HUGE!

And you say advance to their position. How the hell are you going to advance if youre getting rained on the whole damn time. You cant even see where you are going.
MAVRICK64 you swear like your team can help you against an lrm boat you cant even see. THEY CANT!

9% thats 1.8 damage on an LRM20 rack or AC20 round.

Perhaps use situational awareness and recon to avoid getting into the losing situation to begin with. Again if you play to your strengths as opposed to just trying to "out smash" the other team then you can beat LRM teams. Advancing them perhaps not just making a B-line but using the terrain to your advantage or alternatlively looking at the perspective of luring components away into your own team or your own direct fire support which should be more due to the imbalance with LRMS.

Good cover, ECM, AMS, Modules all helping in configurations to counteract the LRM use. Then like I have said it is good applied tactics, patience and using your own fire support attrittion which can easily out perform LRM use at distance if they are not using LOS. Otherwise snipe off those spotters who are providing them to shut that down and continue to force the idea of them having to move or present LOS to perform.

If you don't however do those things and approach LRM teams in a more laxadasical way that lends to how they perform well then expect to lose.

Anyhow in my gameplay experience LRMs are not the main meta in the pecking order and can be overcome with a little thought and discipline. This for me makes the game interesting whilst still providing multiple weapon choices that helps with more diversity to the game. Without LRMs as a "viable" weapon option I can only see the game play style choices and tactical choices with drop decks being more diminshed and making the game more predictable. AKA sniper warrior online which was the case prior to the relvant changes that allowed LRMS to be considered a viable weapon system.

As such "LRMS are fine".

[PappySmurf]

am optimistic about MWO surviving. I will say I was worried about MWO last year, but the last 4-5 months PGI has communicated with us (i.e. road map to CW) and made positive progress (i.e. New CLAN/IS mechs, maps, and nice events on the weekends). Let’s be happy that we have mechwarrior (I've been playing since the 1^st game).

It’s going to get very exciting over the next couple of months. New stuff is coming out – let’s stay optimistic and see what happens.
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I have tried my best for 3 years to be optimistic about MWO and waited10 years for a new MechWarrior game to come along but PGI & Devs keep under developing the aspects of MechWarrior I liked best in the older PC MechWarrior games and that is the Social & League aspect.

MWO is billed as a team game to me that meant a team game played with family and friends we could just drop into private 1v1-12v12 matches with specific rules of engagement and have fun. But NO!!! we have to all be un-social and continually drop into a big fur ball 12v12 death match for 3 years.

After a bit the old patience wears thin and new mech/package purchases lose there glossy shine.