281 replies to this topic

[Angus McFife VI]

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

9% thats 1.8 damage on an LRM20 rack or AC20 round.

Perhaps use situational awareness and recon to avoid getting into the losing situation to begin with. Again if you play to your strengths as opposed to just trying to "out smash" the other team then you can beat LRM teams. Advancing them perhaps not just making a B-line but using the terrain to your advantage or alternatlively looking at the perspective of luring components away into your own team or your own direct fire support which should be more due to the imbalance with LRMS.

Good cover, ECM, AMS, Modules all helping in configurations to counteract the LRM use. Then like I have said it is good applied tactics, patience and using your own fire support attrittion which can easily out perform LRM use at distance if they are not using LOS. Otherwise snipe off those spotters who are providing them to shut that down and continue to force the idea of them having to move or present LOS to perform.

If you don't however do those things and approach LRM teams in a more laxadasical way that lends to how they perform well then expect to lose.

Anyhow in my gameplay experience LRMs are not the main meta in the pecking order and can be overcome with a little thought and discipline. This for me makes the game interesting whilst still providing multiple weapon choices that helps with more diversity to the game. Without LRMs as a "viable" weapon option I can only see the game play style choices and tactical choices with drop decks being more diminshed and making the game more predictable. AKA sniper warrior online which was the case prior to the relvant changes that allowed LRMS to be considered a viable weapon system.

As such "LRMS are fine".

Urgh. "LRMs" use has increased drastically beyond reason. I have no idea how anyone has not noticed. In early August-October 2013, LRMs were still viable weapons, but now they are TOO viable, thus making them Meta. LRM TBR and Stormcrow are the new Meta. It's the truth, Go in a match and tell me that you didn't see at least 4 guys get CLRM pummeled.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 01 November 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Angus McFife VI]

Anyway, what good is "situational awareness" when CLRMs are killing you from behind a hill, 800m away, and have every advantage other than close range capability.

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 01 November 2014 - 07:26 PM.

[GentlemanBryan]

Like Noesis stated next patch LRM damage will be reduced from 1.1 to 1.0 and AMS ammo will be increased. In addition you will have ECM. Not much more to say other than LRM's are here to stay (per LORE spec's). Joining a unit/lance helped me a lot - we prepared before we dropped. For example at least on mech has ECM and others have AMS. Hopefully you guys will join a unit/lance and discuss/train defending against lrms.

[Angus McFife VI]

MAVRICK64, on 01 November 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

Like Noesis stated next patch LRM damage will be reduced from 1.1 to 1.0 and AMS ammo will be increased. In addition you will have ECM. Not much more to say other than LRM's are here to stay (per LORE spec's). Joining a unit/lance helped me a lot - we prepared before we dropped. For example at least on mech has ECM and others have AMS. Hopefully you guys will join a unit/lance and discuss/train defending against lrms.

Okay man, listen. Or read, whatever the ****. Maybe CLRMs can stay, fine whatever. But I'm sick and pissing tired of being against 4-6 god damn CLRM boats. It's LRM Warrior Online or "Lurmageddon".

Edited by Dont LRM me please, 01 November 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[WDBDBloodyTriggerZ]

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

9% thats 1.8 damage on an LRM20 rack or AC20 round.

Perhaps use situational awareness and recon to avoid getting into the losing situation to begin with. Again if you play to your strengths as opposed to just trying to "out smash" the other team then you can beat LRM teams. Advancing them perhaps not just making a B-line but using the terrain to your advantage or alternatlively looking at the perspective of luring components away into your own team or your own direct fire support which should be more due to the imbalance with LRMS.

Good cover, ECM, AMS, Modules all helping in configurations to counteract the LRM use. Then like I have said it is good applied tactics, patience and using your own fire support attrittion which can easily out perform LRM use at distance if they are not using LOS. Otherwise snipe off those spotters who are providing them to shut that down and continue to force the idea of them having to move or present LOS to perform.

If you don't however do those things and approach LRM teams in a more laxadasical way that lends to how they perform well then expect to lose.

Anyhow in my gameplay experience LRMs are not the main meta in the pecking order and can be overcome with a little thought and discipline. This for me makes the game interesting whilst still providing multiple weapon choices that helps with more diversity to the game. Without LRMs as a "viable" weapon option I can only see the game play style choices and tactical choices with drop decks being more diminshed and making the game more predictable. AKA sniper warrior online which was the case prior to the relvant changes that allowed LRMS to be considered a viable weapon system.

As such "LRMS are fine".

Dude you are so right there is SOO much cover for heavies and assaults in alpine peaks and caustic valley. Also almost all mechs have the option to use ECM and dual ams rather than 1 ams which is a waste of tonnage. OH WAIT A SECOND THERE ISNT ANY COVER FOR THOSE MECHS IN THOSE MAPS AND BARELY ANY MECHS HAVE ECM OR DUAL AMS! And how the hell am i going to snipe commandos if im in an atlas OR ANY MECH they just run away cause they can. You cant hurt them. And shut up with "situational awareness". Do you think i dont look at my minimap or look around me at all? Most of the time I get lrmed from people I CANT EVEN SEE. You are trying to talk all sophisticated and smart but at the end of the day you are just a nobody trying to protect the only mechs you are good at, you know the ones loaded up with LRMs.

Edited by WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, 01 November 2014 - 07:38 PM.

[PappySmurf]

Like I said one big problem with LRM'S or Clrms is everyone has C3 targeting which means even in pug games everyone has a target lock which is just asinine. Plus the fact the missile arc is so high its crazy I took a hunchback and played all the maps just to see how long I could survive the LRM/CLRM battles.

90% of the hills building etc. you could not get effective cover the missile rain never ended even in cover so what good is situational awareness if your cover does not effectively block the missiles? The devs really need to start looking at overall gameplay fun and players having better and longer battle time per match.

LRMS-CLRMS-GUASS-PPCS-ETC it don't matter what the flavor of the month killing weapons are if players cannot stay in battles and have FUN!!!! they will un-install MWO and never look back.

Edited by PappySmurf, 01 November 2014 - 07:36 PM.

[GentlemanBryan]

Sorry you feel this way "Dont LRM me please" I hope you stay and find a way to deal with the lrms, but they are not going any where and they wont change because they are spec'd to lore. Yes, I heard you "its LRM Warrior Onine or Lurmageddon". Its MWO (PGI will spec to LORE). Don't get mad - please check out team speak and look for a unit to train with. You will have fun and learn a lot....i did...

[Angus McFife VI]

MAVRICK64, on 01 November 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Sorry you feel this way "Dont LRM me please" I hope you stay and find a way to deal with the lrms, but they are not going any where and they wont change because they are spec'd to lore. Yes, I heard you "its LRM Warrior Onine or Lurmageddon". Its MWO (PGI will spec to LORE). Don't get mad - please check out team speak and look for a unit to train with. You will have fun and learn a lot....i did...

I'll either "deal with it" or uninstall. Like the other players already have. Or, something, I don't know what, can reduce density of CLRM boats.

[WDBDBloodyTriggerZ]

PappySmurf I love you and may the lord Jesus Christ bless your soul.

Edited by WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, 01 November 2014 - 07:51 PM.

[Summon3r]

PappySmurf, on 01 November 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

Like I said one big problem with LRM'S or Clrms is everyone has C3 targeting which means even in pug games everyone has a target lock which is just asinine. Plus the fact the missile arc is so high its crazy I took a hunchback and played all the maps just to see how long I could survive the LRM/CLRM battles.

90% of the hills building etc. you could not get effective cover the missile rain never ended even in cover so what good is situational awareness if your cover does not effectively block the missiles? The devs really need to start looking at overall gameplay fun and players having better and longer battle time per match.

LRMS-CLRMS-GUASS-PPCS-ETC it don't matter what the flavor of the month killing weapons are if players cannot stay in battles and have FUN!!!! they will un-install MWO and never look back.

there is nothing else to say then this, if u want per lore specs then make C3 part of the game.

[InspectorG]

Noesis, on 01 November 2014 - 05:50 PM, said:

LRMs are fine.

Yes. They are.

What the 'complainers' dont understand, and ill give them the benefit of the doubt if they are new, is that:

This game, movement is a SKILL, move poorly and you get killed. Very simple but hard to learn.

LRMs are very inefficient.
-The noob sees a way to hurt the enemy without getting hit back

-The veteran sees it as non-direct fire that spreads damage way too much and has way too much travel-time that most likely wont hit the target if said target knows how to move.

Watch comp play, you see few LRM. You see instead laser vomit, srm brawling, pinpoint ballistics

[InspectorG]

PappySmurf, on 01 November 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

Like I said one big problem with LRM'S or Clrms is everyone has C3 targeting which means even in pug games everyone has a target lock which is just asinine. Plus the fact the missile arc is so high its crazy I took a hunchback and played all the maps just to see how long I could survive the LRM/CLRM battles.

90% of the hills building etc. you could not get effective cover the missile rain never ended even in cover so what good is situational awareness if your cover does not effectively block the missiles? The devs really need to start looking at overall gameplay fun and players having better and longer battle time per match.

LRMS-CLRMS-GUASS-PPCS-ETC it don't matter what the flavor of the month killing weapons are if players cannot stay in battles and have FUN!!!! they will un-install MWO and never look back.

Yes, but, context.

MWO is a very niche game.
MWO has a steep learning curve.
If you arent up to the challenge, maybe this game isnt for you.
I think there are ways to make it more inviting to new players, but LRM nerfs are not that. LRM are at a decent spot now...
and i say this as someone who dislikes using LRM and is mainly a light pilot.

There is a reason most people like CoD over Chess.
Monopoly over Blood Bowl.
MarioKart over Diplomacy.

Im not even talking about difficulty. Different people enjoy different games.

I prefer very difficult games that have various levels of depth. Im not saying thats better than its opposite.
Im saying dont expect MWO to be made into something its not intended to be.

[Thunder Child]

Just want to point out, we don't have C3. It comes up EVERY time. C3 is an Advanced Targeting system developed by the Inner Sphere to counter the Clan Ranged Superiority. It did this by reducing the range modifiers on ALL Long range shots. Not JUST missiles. In fact, it's best use was to allow AC10/20s and PPCs to fire from long range as though they were at short range, with the aid of a scout mech. Because we don't use random hit chances and allocation tables, because every goddamn weapon is perfectly pinpoint accurate (except LRMs, SRMs, and LBX), we have never needed C3.

And now, back to the point. LRM damage is getting nerfed, PPC speeds are getting buffed, so congrats. We'll be going back to the Bullshit PPFLD Snipetard Meta that we've only JUST managed to leave behind. Let me go mothball my brawlers, kthanx bai.

[Telmasa]

Dont LRM me please, on 01 November 2014 - 04:03 PM, said:

- Regular LRMs are perfectly fine but CLRMs are literally primary armaments of most mechs these days,

I agree that the "rocking" induced by a stream of LRMs is still way too high, though it does give the Gyro module a reason for existence.

Quote

- Dire wolfs Roam the landscape, slaughtering anything in front of them. I swear, I have never see a dire wolf do less than 350 damage

Atlases are just as mean, although not as able to keep up the DPS - more alpha-strike kind of brawling, typically. I've seen alot of terribly played DW's too, since it became available for cbills (possibly including me, at the very start).

Quote

- What I also find very humorous is that the Timber Wolf is going 81kph. A heavy mech going 81kph. Also, the medium for the clans, the Stormcrow specifically goes 97kph. So what happens is all these outclassed Inner sphere mechs are slower, weaker (XL engines) or outgunned by their clan counterparts.

The XL advantage is...interesting...but the clans still suffer some weaknesses due to the XL engines; plus, my 65 ton Catapult goes 86. The TW is fast, but not overwhelmingly so, I think.

Quote

- The maps are seriously messed up. Too many invisible barriers on the maps, where I see air it becomes some kind of forcefield. Also, when I'm running from LRMs (Clan to be exact) running blindly and trying to find "cover", I step into some kind of invisible barrier on the ground, causing me to die horribly. Thanks PGI.

Totally agree on this note. The map collision boxes really should be getting alot more attention.

Quote

- And artillery and air strikes are out of control. Can't play a match without getting hammered by 3 of them. "Move out of the way!" No, Inner sphere assaults are too slow to move out of the way.

Also totally agree, it's refreshing to finally see someone that also thinks Call of Duty-style insta-gratification 210 (or 350) damage strikes in under 5 seconds has absolutely no balanced fit within the world of Mechwarrior.

Quote

The worse part about all of this is that this is the new norm. People now think that their Dual Gauss and Dual PPC, or LRM boat Stormcrows are completely balanced because well, they are right. A small sliver of players use Inner Sphere mechs now because of the clan Meta. I remember about a year ago when it took FOREVER to die. Like, seriously, mechs took enormous beatings. But now, if you peek over a hill, GET READY! CLRMS AND DUAL GAUSS HEADED YOUR WAY! You die instantly or become severely damaged in every or almost all situations because of these clan monsters carrying 2x The Inner sphere weapon capability but having the same amount of armor.

All I'm saying is that the gameplay has become nothing but LRM warfare and "Who can alpha someone first", kinda like CoD. It should be fixed or some alternatives must be made because there are too many LRM boats and Dire Wolf "Assasins" out there.

Please, fix my favorite game PGI.

The main issue with the gauss thing, to me, is how many players are abusing the living HELL out of using scripts to achieve perfect timing. It's literally become, with most 2xgauss2xPPC builds, instantaneous pin-point 40-50 damage with a single click of the mouse, without needing to hold it down or anything.

Scripting is cheating. If you can't physically click a mouse with a certain speed or precision, you can't possibly justify using a script to achieve it instead.

[WDBDBloodyTriggerZ]

InspectorG, on 01 November 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

Yes, but, context.

MWO is a very niche game.
MWO has a steep learning curve.
If you arent up to the challenge, maybe this game isnt for you.
I think there are ways to make it more inviting to new players, but LRM nerfs are not that. LRM are at a decent spot now...
and i say this as someone who dislikes using LRM and is mainly a light pilot.

There is a reason most people like CoD over Chess.
Monopoly over Blood Bowl.
MarioKart over Diplomacy.

Im not even talking about difficulty. Different people enjoy different games.

I prefer very difficult games that have various levels of depth. Im not saying thats better than its opposite.
Im saying dont expect MWO to be made into something its not intended to be.

Why do you say new? No one is new here buddy.

[GentlemanBryan]

I know there is a voting form going on for MWO training academy. Adding training missions that will help solo players combat against LRMs (and other situations) would be beneficial – mission 6 and 7 I added.

Training Missions:

Mission 1: BattleMech Movement & Controls
Mission 2: Heads Up Display & Battlegrid
Mission 3: Weapon Systems & Heat Management
Mission 4: Role Warfare & Information Warfare
Mission 5: Search & Destroy (Defeat AI-controlled BattleMech)
Mission 6: Situation awareness
Mission 7: Understanding the combat role of a light, medium, heavy, and assault mech

[JJBussey]

An idea I had personally would be to have the missile hardpoints split into two catagories, LRM, and streak/standard SRMs, that way some mechs can be designed to be LRM boats, while some of the ridiculous LRM builds are given the middle finger and told to put some streaks on themselves or something, I know that isn't exactly ACCURATE of the lore or anything, but a game is a game is a game, you need to make subtle changes to make it balanced and playable, what worked in a single player campaign of MW4:Mercs, isn't going to work or be smiled upon by an online, dedicated game/community.

[happy mech]

are these posts constantly coming from people who sit in their atlas with few lrms and ppcs near the base and do not care about team whole game?

then do not wonder if you go on your own you are gonna get spammed when they notice you

clan too much firepower? have you even played jagermech?

i did play few games today with my firestarter (basic skills), direwolf is ok
"Dire wolfs Roam the landscape, slaughtering anything in front of them." - summed up perfectly

[InspectorG]

WDBDBloodyTriggerZ, on 02 November 2014 - 02:11 AM, said:

Why do you say new? No one is new here buddy.

You are saying everyone that plays MWO is a veteran at it even if they have never played it before???

Im not understanding your statement.

[Angus McFife VI]

Telmasa, on 01 November 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

I agree that the "rocking" induced by a stream of LRMs is still way too high, though it does give the Gyro module a reason for existence.



Atlases are just as mean, although not as able to keep up the DPS - more alpha-strike kind of brawling, typically. I've seen alot of terribly played DW's too, since it became available for cbills (possibly including me, at the very start).



The XL advantage is...interesting...but the clans still suffer some weaknesses due to the XL engines; plus, my 65 ton Catapult goes 86. The TW is fast, but not overwhelmingly so, I think.



Totally agree on this note. The map collision boxes really should be getting alot more attention.



Also totally agree, it's refreshing to finally see someone that also thinks Call of Duty-style insta-gratification 210 (or 350) damage strikes in under 5 seconds has absolutely no balanced fit within the world of Mechwarrior.



The main issue with the gauss thing, to me, is how many players are abusing the living HELL out of using scripts to achieve perfect timing. It's literally become, with most 2xgauss2xPPC builds, instantaneous pin-point 40-50 damage with a single click of the mouse, without needing to hold it down or anything.

Scripting is cheating. If you can't physically click a mouse with a certain speed or precision, you can't possibly justify using a script to achieve it instead.

Thank you, sir.