281 replies to this topic

[Eegxeta]

The Mach Lab is a big part of the game. Having to assemble a load out that works is half the fun and the most challenging part of the game because it dictates not only the power of your mech but your effectiveness in battle as you need to be good with the weapons in combat. People are also wanting a bit more flavor with the mechs I think this would work. It is based on the MW4 Mach Lab and makes it more interesting and places some necessary boundaries to and variety to each mech as well as making mechs more specialized so you don't end up with having two different mechs able to do exactly the same thing.

Weapon hard-points should have a limit to how much weapon tonnage it can carry based on where it is on the mech a torso would be able to carry more weapon tonnage than an arm or a pod. There should also be a limit to the number of weapons that can be installed onto a hard-point based on the mech design, example the large shoulder cannon on the Hunchback should only be able to carry one weapon because it was only designed to carry one weapon. Omi weapon hard-point shouldn't have a limit number of weapons you can fit into the space available. There are four Omi hard-point types Omi(takes any weapon type), heat(takes beam/missile), ammo(take ballistic/missile), and direct (takes beam/ballistic) these hard-point should be the only ones to carry any number of weapons so long as they fit onto the hard-point.

And if anyone wants to cop out of the hard part there could be a way for players to sell weapon load-out blueprints so that people who don't want the challenge don't have to take it.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Alteratively they could go with a mechlab that enables you to make repairs or use field kits to produce approved variants. The trouble is that allowing free customisation in multiplayer ends up with a few optimised designs and reduces real variability while usuall causing balance problems.

[metro]

Mechanics of MWO= unknown.

Topic=speculative

Edited by Metro, 22 November 2011 - 08:15 AM.

[eXecute]

Ah I would have the MW4 Mech Lab and the MW3 Mobile Mech Bays for on the battlefield repairs.

[TheRulesLawyer]

Weapon loadout is hardly the "hard part" Custom designs are fun, but I really really hope they manage to keep canon designs viable. I really don't want to have to run some frankenmech to have a fair fight. And yes, I've spent many many many hours min\maxing mechs in mechlab/HMP/SSW

[Havoc2]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 22 November 2011 - 08:03 AM, said:

Alteratively they could go with a mechlab that enables you to make repairs or use field kits to produce approved variants. The trouble is that allowing free customisation in multiplayer ends up with a few optimised designs and reduces real variability while usuall causing balance problems.

There would be no balance issues unless the weapons themselves are imbalanced.
Someone who has a terrible weapons loadout losing to a person who has a specialized weapons loadout isn't imbalanced. Someone didn't use their weapons to the best of their ability, and/or didn't take tactical advantage over someone who is a 1-trick pony.

[ICUBurn]

I would like to see he critics system from mech3 modifies with the limited points in mw4. example: you have all these critics in this arm but it can only hold ballistics.

[Cronicus]

Eegxeta, on 21 November 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

The Mach Lab is a big part of the game. Having to assemble a load out that works is half the fun and the most challenging part of the game because it dictates not only the power of your mech but your effectiveness in battle as you need to be good with the weapons in combat. People are also wanting a bit more flavor with the mechs I think this would work. It is based on the MW4 Mach Lab and makes it more interesting and places some necessary boundaries to and variety to each mech as well as making mechs more specialized so you don't end up with having two different mechs able to do exactly the same thing.

Weapon hard-points should have a limit to how much weapon tonnage it can carry based on where it is on the mech a torso would be able to carry more weapon tonnage than an arm or a pod. There should also be a limit to the number of weapons that can be installed onto a hard-point based on the mech design, example the large shoulder cannon on the Hunchback should only be able to carry one weapon because it was only designed to carry one weapon. Omi weapon hard-point shouldn't have a limit number of weapons you can fit into the space available. There are four Omi hard-point types Omi(takes any weapon type), heat(takes beam/missile), ammo(take ballistic/missile), and direct (takes beam/ballistic) these hard-point should be the only ones to carry any number of weapons so long as they fit onto the hard-point.

And if anyone wants to cop out of the hard part there could be a way for players to sell weapon load-out blueprints so that people who don't want the challenge don't have to take it.

MechWarrior 4 Had the WORST mechlab of all the mechwarrior games it was way too limiting in what you could do and took away from the mad max feel of the battletech universe.

I want a MechWarrior 2 Mercenarries style mech lab where you have to spend iname currency to get your custom job.

You should be able to customize your mech anyway you want it should however cost you time and C-bills earned in campaign mode.

So the more you want to alter your favorite mech the more it's gonna cost ya and the longer it will be in the bay unuseable. Allowing players to store multiple mechs in your bay will solve any issues this has with people not being able to play.

Also another balancing system could be the implementation of NO battlefield customization unless your mech has omni capability. So you better be sure that your mech can fight in the enviroment that your going too.

I want my Energy Weapon only Awesome Damnit!! Mechwarrior 4 took that away from me with it's god forsaken set hardpoints I do not want that put in here microsoft screwed over the mecwarrior series when they took it over from activision and I would rather not have the crap changes they made to the later games be put into this.

Activision had the best giant robot combat sim in gaming with mechwarrior 2 and mechwarrior 2 mercs. I liked all the nuances that these two games had that where taken away in later mechwarrior games. The sheer amount of stuff you could do in the oldschool mechlabs was sweet as hell and will extend play time for this game for years.

I want to fight min maxed franken mechs the damn challenge will keep me interested in the game and may even convince me to fork over some cash I want a free and open mechlab the more I can do to my own mech the better honestly.

As long as all the weapon systems are balanced then total and free customisation would be awesome as hell.

[CeeKay Boques]

Cronicus, on 22 November 2011 - 10:43 AM, said:

I want to fight min maxed franken mechs the damn challenge will keep me interested in the game and may even convince me to fork over some cash I want a free and open mechlab the more I can do to my own mech the better honestly.

As long as all the weapon systems are balanced then total and free customisation would be awesome as hell.

Except that if you had 5 50 Tonners, except for jump jets and electronic suites, you could turn them all into the same 'Mech. Having direct hardpoints that make sense make different chassis matter.

[MaddMaxx]

Let us hope that tomorrow will be a Mech Lab reveal item.

[Cronicus]

Technoviking, on 22 November 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

Except that if you had 5 50 Tonners, except for jump jets and electronic suites, you could turn them all into the same 'Mech. Having direct hardpoints that make sense make different chassis matter.

NO thats limiting customization I vemently dislike the idea of set hardpoints with a passion.

I don't want to be screwed over if I can't affoard an autocannon replacement for my mechs right arm when I could have swapped it out for a medium laser I managed to salvage last battle.

Limiting Customization with set hardpoints will infact make it harder for new players to get a feel for the game because it will force people away from their personal preferences.

If there is set hardpoints I WANT an option to spend time and C-bills while not on campaign to convert it to my weapon of choice.

Thats also why I disliked mechwarrior 4 the damned set hardpoints killed ALL the fun of the game for me.

***** set hardpoints they take all the fun out of everything I want to mad max style alter my mech anyway I feel like and hate the idea of set hardpoints there will be no convining me that it is a good idea because it Ruined my gaming experience for MechWarrior games..

Why would taking anything from Mechwarrior 4 the worst game in the series be a good idea?

[MaddMaxx]

Quote

"Limiting Customization with set hard points will in fact make it harder for new players to get a feel for the game because it will force people away from their personal preferences."

This makes little sense. How would a "New" player, someone with limited to no knowledge of Mech building, be forced away from something they do not yet have? A design/Build preference.

Giving a new player any build tool, that has choice, stills allows them to make their own custom Mechs and surely after a few tries they will find something they like/enjoy or deem preferential to others they had designed.

Unlimited Customization is the pinnacle of Mech games, no doubt. BUT, it has been proven that allowing UN-mitigated changes, just because, always ends in failure as gamers are more than notorious for building Mechs that have no basis in either today's reality or that of the 31st century.

Let's have the Mech load outs make sense when built. Is that to much to ask, and it assists the Dev in their efforts to afford the community a Balanced game play experience. When combined with all the other things we demand want.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 22 November 2011 - 11:40 AM.

[Alizabeth Aijou]

TheRulesLawyer, on 22 November 2011 - 09:57 AM, said:

And yes, I've spent many many many hours min\maxing mechs in mechlab/HMP/SSW

And there's the part I don't like.
I'm fine with customs, as long as they're flavourfull rather than attempted min/maxing.
Then again, I've been guilty of that myself with my MRM-boating Marauder (which was frightingly effective, given the weapons used).

Quote

Except that if you had 5 50 Tonners, except for jump jets and electronic suites, you could turn them all into the same 'Mech. Having direct hardpoints that make sense make different chassis matter.

Depends on what you've got access to.
If the best you got is a DropShip's 'Mech Cubicle, you ain't going to be changing Internal Structures and the like. No changing engine type, gyro type, cockpit type, etc. either. Engine rating and heatsink type will be the best you can change.
So, depending on which 50 tonners we're talking about, they'll end up being different due to parts that cannot be changed with the given means.

Quote

Thats also why I disliked mechwarrior 4 the damned set hardpoints killed ALL the fun of the game for me.

Well, not all the fun, but it made it pretty damn hard to play any Nova other than the Prime, A, or H configurations. Want to play a Nova C? Too bad, go use some other 'Mech.

Quote

"Limiting Customization with set hard points will in fact make it harder for new players to get a feel for the game because it will force people away from their personal preferences[color=#AA0000], and to 'Mechs they don't like.[/color]"

Fixed it for ya.

Part of the fun of customs is surprising an opponent with an unexpected weapons loadout.
Some canon variants exist which do that, but not overly many.
The AWS-8R Awesome is one example that I can think of.
Standard Awesome packs 3 PPCs, the -8R packs two LRM-15s and a Large Laser.
Now lets say I'm a fan of the Marauder, but also a fan of missile launchers.
If we'd be restricted to hardpoints or canon-only, I'd be looking at...
MAD-5D, with a single Streak SRM-2.
MAD-9M, with two Streak SRM-6.
MAD-SD (Douglas), with twin SRM-4.
Not exactly the sorts you'd be happy with (and the MAD-9M won't be available for a decade at least).

[Kudzu]

If they introduce a good BV system I wouldn't mind full customization; if you min-max a mech you'd end up paying for it when it comes time to match up.

[CaveMan]

It's half the battle until someone figures out what the optimum loadout is.

Then it becomes the whole battle.

[Gaius Cavadus]

I'll take anything but the TT's critical system; that was meant for making new and custom mechs, not really customizing existing designs.

The hardpoint system was great though it needed some refinement. It also really needed an "equipment" tab full of equipment hardpoints for placing things like heat sinks, electronic packages, AMSs, et cetera.

[Radar]

At the very least, what ever and however you put the weapons on the mech, please allow the image to reflect the actual look of the mech with those weapons!
One of the very dissapointing things I have always found in the MechLabs is that no matter what you put on the mechs, they still looked the same!
I know its a cosmetic thing, but, that's half the fun. Seeing your final machine the way you want it to look.

[CeeKay Boques]

At this rate, we'll have 8 halves of fun! That's 400% fun!

[Eegxeta]

I just put this together to see what people thought and if anyone had any good ideas on ways to improve it. I was mostly trying to introduce a more complex weight system to the mech lab. Hard-points aren't a bad idea they were just poorly implemented. If the hard-points didn't restrict weapon type I think the MW4 mech lab could work as the base for the MWO mech lab.

The hard-points work like MW4 except the hard-points don't restrict type. Weapon hard-points should have a limit to how much weapon tonnage it can carry based on where it is on the mech a torso would be able to carry more weapon tonnage than an arm or a pod. There should also be a limit to the number of weapons that can be installed onto a hard-point based on the mech design, example the large shoulder cannon on the Hunchback should only be able to carry one weapon because it was only designed to carry one weapon. Omi weapon hard-point shouldn't have a limit number of weapons you can fit into the space available. The weapons also have a visual effect on the mechs the standard load-out for a mech dictates the base look of the mech( back to the hunchback) if you were to put a Gauss rifle in the shoulder cannon of a hunchback there should be a visual change such as an elongated barrel. That would make it look like the Hollander II big brother

How does this sound? I believe this fixes the problem everyone is having with the hard-points.

Or you can keep the typed hard-points and just make it take longer or cost a little more to put a weapon of a different type in.

I like the typeless hard-points better personally.

Edited by Eegxeta, 27 November 2011 - 05:52 PM.

[verybad]

}{avoc, on 22 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

There would be no balance issues unless the weapons themselves are imbalanced.
Someone who has a terrible weapons loadout losing to a person who has a specialized weapons loadout isn't imbalanced. Someone didn't use their weapons to the best of their ability, and/or didn't take tactical advantage over someone who is a 1-trick pony.

The weapons are unbalanced in Battletech to begin with. Certain weapons are simply more effective due to range, damage, or efficiency. You can still make viable mechs on the 3085 battlefield using just 3025 Medium Lasers for instance.

Eventually it is inevitable that some weapons and configs will be more effective than others.