281 replies to this topic

[Omigir]

Well, im glad you are all against a full mechlab. n___n so we all agree, We dont want gunbags, flying atlases or other nonsens.

GOOD!

now that we got ^THAT^ out of the way, instead of 'no never no no no no' how about sugestions on working constraints?

Really, I dont care if i have to wait 48 hrs for my mech to come out of hte mech lab, and I dont care if i cant tweek everything, What I would like to see is a well thought out, and conservative mechlab that lets me tweek amo and ton for ton weapon wapon swaps and maybe shave or add a little bit of armor here or there. Maye.. just maybe, add or subject certian electronics like a BAP.

Just because its not a full MW2/3 mechlab, does not mean its still not some kind of mechlab. Give us a break after all and atleast consider it rather then just thinking it wont ever work at all.

Like above sugested, a hard point system would help allot in restricting a mech from venturing too far away from what its purpose is. Having a cool down timer + C-bill costs and possibly a need for a hired tech (I.E. you dont have a personal machanic or ownership of you mech, you arent customizing your mech) will also make them *NOT* omni mechs. they now are no long swap and play mechs.

and as for players who *CAN* afford to swap out and refine thier mech, well guess what, they are already outside your legue do to experince levels. Congradulations, i hope they put you new players into a lower bracket becuase its going to be hard for you to jump in cold without a good support team.

Or am I wrong? Will one group really become suppirior becuase the rest of us cant out think them to over come them?

[pickledtezcat]

Quote

Well, im glad you are all against a full mechlab. n___n so we all agree, We dont want gunbags, flying atlases or other nonsens.

GOOD!

now that we got ^THAT^ out of the way, instead of 'no never no no no no' how about sugestions on working constraints?

Quote

I agree with you all, What do you think about the hardpoints combined with variants idea i posted on page 12? I think it would not be all omnimechs as such, as you'll still have specific hardpoints on a mech that can't simply be filled with an other type of weapon, but the hardpoints would be able to change in other specific configurations according to which variant you're running with.

Something like this:


This is what I've been working on for my own homebrew game, some modification, based on a "parent" variant design.
Coding wise it's very easy to do once you have a good working dictionary of mechs and variants.
I'm planning on allowing much more modification at the beginning of a campaign, but this will be the in the field mech lab.

It's simple, you can switch weapons, put in arrays of weapons (like two medium lasers instead of a large) or whatever. Heatsinks won't be changed, but ammo can be. You can put a different type of weapon in a slot, or a bigger weapon in a small slot, but it incurs a cost penalty, so there is freedom, but a definite incentive to remain true to the original design.

[Gorith]

I could post my suggestion again however it's not far down in the forum (and if I remember you already read it)

http://mwomercs.com/...chlab-wsalvage/

For those who haven't read it

[Nik Van Rhijn]

I think that what we might end up with is similar to Gorith's post, maybe expanded along the lines of the Strat Ops rules which extends the time for some things. For a factory refit (ie full rebuild" I would like to see a delivery time added in from the factory. Possibly there would be several levels of variant kits for those new to the IP or who don't want to "tweak" to the same depth. Pricing (relative to earning power) would also be a factor in limiting what you can do.Remember that we have very limited access to advanced tech at game launch and for a year afterwards. This will give the dev's plenty of time to refine the system.

[Excalibaard]

pickledtezcat, on 25 December 2011 - 03:54 AM, said:

Something like this:


This is what I've been working on for my own homebrew game, some modification, based on a "parent" variant design.
Coding wise it's very easy to do once you have a good working dictionary of mechs and variants.
I'm planning on allowing much more modification at the beginning of a campaign, but this will be the in the field mech lab.

It's simple, you can switch weapons, put in arrays of weapons (like two medium lasers instead of a large) or whatever. Heatsinks won't be changed, but ammo can be. You can put a different type of weapon in a slot, or a bigger weapon in a small slot, but it incurs a cost penalty, so there is freedom, but a definite incentive to remain true to the original design.

That is exactly what I'd love to see.

People who don't want customization to stick close to the lore can just refit to a new variant instead of customizing the weapons too, which I think will at least bring the TT and MW fans somewhat together.

Edited by SubjectSeven, 25 December 2011 - 11:06 AM.

[Pht]

SMDMadCow, on 24 December 2011 - 08:59 PM, said:

I want the MW2 mechlab, after I attain the rank of Captain.

... and all non-Captains will be living in gehnna trying to get to be Captains..

SubjectSeven, on 25 December 2011 - 03:04 AM, said:

I suggested something before that may be a solution

I seem to have missed it and have not been able to find it.

Quote

I agree with you all, What do you think about the hardpoints combined with variants idea i posted on page 12? I think it would not be all omnimechs as such, as you'll still have specific hardpoints on a mech that can't simply be filled with an other type of weapon, but the hardpoints would be able to change in other specific configurations according to which variant you're running with.

I think you and I are in the same vein; See this Link ... and tell me what you think, if you don't mind.

I would really like to see the variants as distinct chassis too. It would help to solve some problems with the 'lab.

[Omigir]

Yup, read it and loved it Gorith. More or less by now im promoting that idea.. its been sugested many times by difrent people.

but slowly but surly mechlab is starting to be settled onto a happy medium. Good job forum! lets hope the dev's have been keeping tallies n__n

[Elizander]

As much as I enjoy full customization, it would make most default configurations ineffective. Weapon stacking is pretty much the way to go and always has been for MW for PC. MW4 tried to maintain the base designs with the weapon slots but there were models where you could do whatever you wanted anyway.

Most people will just end up having 2-12 of the same weapon if full customization is allowed.

[Dlardrageth]

Of course it will go that way without strict limits. Envision the shiny armies of Mechs trodding across the landscape, all with the same three or four "cookie cutter" designs. Painted in the same bright yellow mostly... Welcome to "Pokémon Mechs Online"! That also fits well with the request for having insta-repairs at no cost. Actions like heavy customization having no or almost no consequences... yay... I'm bored already...

Edited by Dlardrageth, 29 December 2011 - 01:50 PM.

[Duke Pitt]

Nik Van Rhijn, on 22 November 2011 - 08:03 AM, said:

Alteratively they could go with a mechlab that enables you to make repairs or use field kits to produce approved variants. The trouble is that allowing free customisation in multiplayer ends up with a few optimised designs and reduces real variability while usuall causing balance problems.

I don't see how having preset variants would fix the variability issue, it kind of inherently limits the possibilities. Also different playstyles and preferences means there would still be a ton of player generated variants. Also without actually knowing damage/range/recycle rate values as they will be in the game it's hard to say what will be imbalanced or not, a lot of posts on the forums are making assumptions in terms of this game being directly comparable to mechwarrior videogames or the battletech table top. The problem is this is MechWarrior online! It is it's own game so making predictions that take other systems as fact is a little bit silly. I personally don't want it to be directly based off either pre existing systems becuase neither is perfect.

[Omigir]

Elizander, on 29 December 2011 - 01:42 PM, said:

As much as I enjoy full customization, it would make most default configurations ineffective. Weapon stacking is pretty much the way to go and always has been for MW for PC. MW4 tried to maintain the base designs with the weapon slots but there were models where you could do whatever you wanted anyway. Most people will just end up having 2-12 of the same weapon if full customization is allowed.

the only problem with your argument, is the same thing applies to having preset mechs only. You end up with the same 4 mechs in every lance. Instead of min/maxing the weapons on thier indavidual mech, they min/max the lance for best resutls. We will only see those same mech's unless they nerf them, at that point the next min/max group will emerge and they will then have to nerf that as well.

Its a terible cycle, yes, but allowing some customization, means that a pilot who loves how that crazy mech looks but hates how it pilots, can be shifted to fit his play style rather then being stuck a mech that he hates how it looks, but its the best mech for his play style.

so in recap, min/maxing will happen anyway and veriety is going to suffer due to success or death players and you cant stop them. So dont punish those of us who want to tweek a little bit becuase of what they do.

[wolf74]

Part of the Problem with all the Mech Titles is it be Mech VS Mech Only combat so Weapons that are Good VS other type of unit get thrown in to the corner. AKA Flamers & M.G.’s are great VS infantry.

So we could fix part of the Problem with the Mech-Lab using a two Non-Lab items.

• Damage Model:
  
  • Lasers: Have the damage for laser be done over time. For laser have a X Damage/Sec. This makes it the Time on target Very important. (I suggest someone where between Damage 2 to 4 Damage/second as a starting area)
    
  • Cannons & Missile: Can do damage on Contact with the shell but due to their Limited ammo & High Weight plus ammo Explosion help Count High Weapon count. (The Missile can also be countered by AMS)

• Adding other Types of unit Sometime AFTER Launch as playable Option.
  
  • Infantry can be a BIG pain to a Mech Pilot in a City setting and if you add it the you have to get a Direct Hit to kill One Man Leaving this 27 or 20 other friend he has to shot at you. (For more info on these see Total Warfare Rule book pg 216-217)
    
  • Playing a Tank or VTOL(Stock is fine) would also be a nice option. (SRM are Great VS Tanks)

I would love to see a Side Combat option 23 jump Infantry VS one Mech in a City setting. (I would like to have more Infantry but they are trying to limit matches to 24players)



(edit)
But my point is some of the weapons on mech are not made to go after other mechs with. Mech had to fight all type of other units this is why mech had Different Weapons, If all a Mech Fights are other mechs there are Lot of weapon that will NOT get used due to the fact they Not the best choice VS Mechs.

Edited by wolf74, 30 December 2011 - 12:08 PM.

[Omigir]

There wont be tanks or infinty, and only jus tmaybe aircraft support. So what good are MG's to me if they dont do d* to a mech?

Flamers have thier place but outside of having 4x MG's or 3x <like you would find on a madcat, or a gashawk> there is really very little use. a light mech with 2x MG's is not goign to shave off enough armor to do anything....

[guardiandashi]

from what the devs were saying INITIALLY there will be nothing but mechs, however that doesn't mean there will NEVER be other vechs and infantry

[MaddMaxx]

Omigir, on 30 December 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

There wont be tanks or infinty, and only jus tmaybe aircraft support. So what good are MG's to me if they dont do d* to a mech?

Flamers have thier place but outside of having 4x MG's or 3x <like you would find on a madcat, or a gashawk> there is really very little use. a light mech with 2x MG's is not going to shave off enough armor to do anything....

What if they implemented AP rounds such that damage could be scaled up to say the Small Laser damage level and add another 50-100M of Range.

That way 3-4 Mg's with AP ammo could in fact deal damage (9-12 per 2 second burst) as they have ALOT of rounds per Ton and no Heat. A burst could constitute 10 rounds allowing for 20 bursts per Ton.

Could make for a nice finisher weapon, low weight, fair damage (if buffed) and no heat. Good for chewing into severly damaged torso sections to get internals perhaps.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 30 December 2011 - 12:28 PM.

[Omigir]

MaddMaxx, on 30 December 2011 - 12:26 PM, said:

What if they implemented AP rounds such that damage could be scaled up to say the Small Laser damage level and add another 50-100M of Range.

That way 3-4 Mg's with AP ammo could in fact deal damage (9-12 per 2 second burst) as they have ALOT of rounds per Ton and no Heat. A burst could constitute 10 rounds allowing for 20 bursts per Ton.

Could make for a nice finisher weapon, low weight, fair damage (if buffed) and no heat. Good for chewing into severly damaged torso sections to get internals perhaps.

Keep in mind the guns also have to factor in ammo tonage. So even though an MG with AP rounds does = DMG to a SLaser, it still will weight more. Though an amo limit would make it pretty sweet for continued fire and no heat is pretty nice perk.. so i guess that isnt bad.

Would MG's start out with AP/ani mech rounds though? Standard MG's would be a hard thing to start out with like in a flee.

[MaddMaxx]

Omigir, on 30 December 2011 - 12:59 PM, said:

Keep in mind the guns also have to factor in ammo tonage. So even though an MG with AP rounds does = DMG to a SLaser, it still will weight more. Though an amo limit would make it pretty sweet for continued fire and no heat is pretty nice perk.. so i guess that isnt bad.

Would MG's start out with AP/ani mech rounds though? Standard MG's would be a hard thing to start out with like in a flee.

The ammo is designed to be harder using different materials but that does not have to = heavier.

This could be a good instance for it is the "BTU"

Edited by MaddMaxx, 30 December 2011 - 01:10 PM.

[Omigir]

MaddMaxx, on 30 December 2011 - 01:06 PM, said:

The ammo is designed to be harder using different materials but that does not have to = heavier. This could be a good instance for it is the "BTU"

heh true. what i meant though was most MG's come with 1 ton ammo (min) so 1.5 ton vs .5 ton still makes a SLaser more apealing vice a MG.

I think MG's are .5 tons, i forget really.

So i am not sure if that 1 ton over a SLaser is worth no heat?

[MaddMaxx]

Omigir, on 30 December 2011 - 01:33 PM, said:

heh true. what i meant though was most MG's come with 1 ton ammo (min) so 1.5 ton vs .5 ton still makes a SLaser more apealing vice a MG.

I think MG's are .5 tons, i forget really.

So i am not sure if that 1 ton over a SLaser is worth no heat?

I was using this.

Quote

"BattleMechs and vehicles (massing more than 5 tons) allot Machine Gun ammunition in half-ton (100 "round") as well as full ton (200 "round") lots."

I was just imagining a drive by on a damaged Heavy or Assault and seeing a blackened area. I also have 3 AP MG's on-board.

[Omigir]

Ok Max XD