66 replies to this topic

[Ultimax]

Nearly every mech in the inner sphere is about to get a slew of buffs, many of which put their range with specialized weapons on par with clan mechs, but sometimes with even higher dps or better cooling or both.


Give it a rest already.

[Johnny Z]

Walluh, on 02 November 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Commandos and wolverines are BAD IS mechs. I play plenty of them. More often than my clan mechs, lately.

I think being punched by Timberwolves and Dires have made you a wee bit biased on the topic.

Actually its the extremely rare competent pilots I see in a DW or TW for example or any of the other Clan mechs for that matter.

Their OPness makes them stand in the open all invincible like and when a WF isnt getting 7 kills in a match its usually a piloting challenged guy in there looking like a dunce.

Easy mode doesnt make a pilot step up his game or improve.

After these mech qwerks come in, clan pilots will have a tougher challenge than before and will have to make improvements. That or come to the forums whining like giant PTW man babies. Take a guess which is more likely.

[Walluh]

Mhm, Talking to a brick wall. Not only are clan mechs overpowered, but the majority who play them are actually bad, pay to win 'man babies', apparently.

Where did the bad Dire Wolf gauss you?

Edited by Walluh, 02 November 2014 - 06:55 PM.

[Sovery_Simple]

Walluh, on 02 November 2014 - 06:54 PM, said:

Mhm, Talking to a brick wall. Not only are clan mechs overpowered, but the majority who play them are actually bad, pay to win 'man babies', apparently.

Where did the bad Dire Wolf gauss you?

And don't forget the entirety of clan pilots will have to make improvements! Maybe we should start putting on endosteel to save tonnage like teh leet IS pilots. Oh wait...

(learn to use some cover, almost all of the clan stuff will burn longer than it takes you to hide if you shoot first. You are shooting first, right? 'Cuz otherwise you're the one getting outplayed.)

Oh, Walluh, don't forget the Nova. The only mech it managed to outscore in the entire game during the last tourney was the vindicator, and it done so by 35 points. (This means it was outdone by the dragon, hell, it was outdone by the commando.)

Edited by Whoops, 02 November 2014 - 08:13 PM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Ultimatum X, on 02 November 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

Nearly every mech in the inner sphere is about to get a slew of buffs, many of which put their range with specialized weapons on par with clan mechs, but sometimes with even higher dps or better cooling or both.


Give it a rest already.

Exactly, the IS are about to become rather amazing........

AC5/2 Jager is about to become an endless machinegun nest.....
Awesome is about to become a PPC Machinegun nest
one of hte Cents is about to be an LBX machinegun nest
Cicada and Locust are gettingthier RoF jacked into the MG42 category......

DPS on IS mechs is about to be incredible.....poor Dire Whales.

[Glythe]

oneproduct, on 02 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

With a clan XL engine you get all the weight savings that allow you to carry the firepower you need and the only "punishment" is that if you lose both your side torsos you die.

You identify one of the greatest strengths of the clan mech yet you ask for the wrong fix. The ONLY way to balance Clan - IS engines is that they have the same mechanic. Losing a side torso kills you or losing a side torso does not kill you for both.

Yea it isn't lore. So is 99% of this game. It's also supposed to be the case that an Atlas K is equal to a direwolf because they weigh the same.

Never in the history of this game has the Atlas K been close to the Direwolf.

[Ultimax]

Glythe, on 02 November 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

You identify one of the greatest strengths of the clan mech yet you ask for the wrong fix. The ONLY way to balance Clan - IS engines is that they have the same mechanic. Losing a side torso kills you or losing a side torso does not kill you for both.

You mean like that mechanic that allows you to choose a STD or XL engine, or allows you to increase or decrease it's size?


Do you mean like that mechanic that is only available to one side?

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 November 2014 - 08:57 PM.

[Brody319]

Glythe, on 02 November 2014 - 08:50 PM, said:

You identify one of the greatest strengths of the clan mech yet you ask for the wrong fix. The ONLY way to balance Clan - IS engines is that they have the same mechanic. Losing a side torso kills you or losing a side torso does not kill you for both.

Yea it isn't lore. So is 99% of this game. It's also supposed to be the case that an Atlas K is equal to a direwolf because they weigh the same.

Never in the history of this game has the Atlas K been close to the Direwolf.

Omnimechs are hardwired with 1 engine, so giving them the ability to lose a single side torso is fine by me.
If you wanna force all IS mechs to one engine that cannot be changed at all go ahead, I'm sure that those lights will be just fine when they can only run 80KPH.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Xetelian, on 02 November 2014 - 02:30 PM, said:

That is assuming every shot is going into the side that gets blown off and that would also require the enemy to NOT fire back centering the middle torso for a shot would open them up so the shield you speak of is very limited.

Am I the only one that goes for the legs on mechs like that? Cause usually theyre pretty screwed by the time you lose a torso and theyre less armored

[FupDup]

Damocles, on 02 November 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

dont support decreased TTK

The only mechs killing people faster are mostly going to be mechs that are currently very bad and only suited to roaming the Steering Wheel Underhive. The top metagame mechs like Timbers, Whales, Crows, Embers, etc. will not be killing mechs any faster.

Basically, what this means is that you now need to consider EVERY enemy mech to be a threat, instead of just focusing down the "meta" mechs and ignoring the troll mechs.

[Zordicron]

"It's not fair that clans get dmg shields when ST blow!!"

"yeah but IS mechs get that too! Like Cents and Atlas etc!!"

"yeah but they shouldnt get that either! It makes them more powerful then they should be, and then we could add quirks!!"

"So IS mechs are too powerful because of this too then?"

"Well yeah!, no..., no! But I don't like the mechanic!"

" So Clan mechs are mor epowerful the IS mechs even though they function the same way?"

"Yeah!! Clan XL is really a problem, it makes them OP!! They should work the same as IS XL!!"

" So you want Clan XL to work the same? then they would get to change engine size and choose STD or XL?"

"No they should just get nerfed! XL should work the same, but not the same! I don't care just nerf OP clans!"

My summation of this thread in all it's idiocy thus far.

[oneproduct]

Or you could stop being a troll and realize that there's a problem. Do you think that the ever popular stormcrows and timberwolves live so long in a brawl just because they have XL engines? The damage shield they get contributes enormously to their survivability. 50% damage reduction is not a small amount. IS mechs can get it too, but have to pay a heavy price in tonnage vs clan mechs that get it free.

Clan mechs can't change their engine? Hardly matters. They almost all have XL engines which are much better than clan standard engines and most of them have fantastic engine sizes except for the light mechs and perhaps the direwolf, but he's still a terror as is. You might want to go lighter on the engine in a timberwolf but even with the amount of weight he has available he's already the strongest heavy mech in the game. Do you really think they need that freedom?

And they have their own advantages too. The mere existence of the clan XL and the ability to mix and match hardpoints is not something the IS have. Clan XL was supposed to give them the ability to survive the loss of one side torso. It was not meant to give you a 50% damage shield as an additional bonus. Maybe standard engines could have this as a way to incentivize taking them, which would also make sure that the centurion, stalker, atlas and the like still maintain their tankiness.

Edited by oneproduct, 03 November 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

Mcgral18, on 02 November 2014 - 02:15 PM, said:

Make it a quirk to problem mechs.

PGI using quirks as the quick fix to everything is ganna suck.

[Sovery_Simple]

oneproduct, on 03 November 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

Or you could stop being a troll and realize that there's a problem. Do you think that the ever popular stormcrows and timberwolves live so long in a brawl just because they have XL engines?

Honestly I attributed their longevity to the fact the stormcrow is throwing out srm30's like they're candy so no one wants to look directly at it, and the timberwolf is doing 50+ laser vomits at "**** you I'm way over here" ranges.

[Shino Tenshi]

My apologies if this has been mentioned already, but to whoever is concerned about not being able to hit the CT because of a damaged part getting in the way.... you do realize that any hit to a dead part gets transferred to the next section, right? If you hit a dead LT, the damage gets transferred as if it were a hit on the CT.

[Lykaon]

oneproduct, on 02 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Can we see some stats on how much damage on average a clan mech takes before it dies compared to an inner sphere mech?

More so than any balance problems that may come from differences between clan and inner sphere weapons, the clan XL engine is what makes them so resilient.

Ever wonder why an Inner sphere XL engine causes a kill effect on a mech if/when a side torso location is destroyed?

The answer is because this rule exsisted in the table top game.Three Engine hits destroys a mech engine.A destroyed engine kills a mech.

Oddly enough there is another table top rule that applies to damaged engines.Every engine hit taken in the table top game adds 5 heat points to your heat scale every turn.

The odd part is PGI arbitrarily chose the three engine hits equals dead rule but left the heat penalities for engine hits out.

So,if instead of the rule of three hits = dead PGI could just as easily taken the heat penalties for damaged engines.

Since we only got one of the two table top rules why must it be one that causes poor balance?

If we just abandon the three engine hits = dead rule and instead we go with each engine hit builds additional heat BOTH Clan and I.S. mechs will be capable of taking advantage of the damage transfer mechanics the OP mentions.

[Lily from animove]

oneproduct, on 02 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

Can we see some stats on how much damage on average a clan mech takes before it dies compared to an inner sphere mech?

More so than any balance problems that may come from differences between clan and inner sphere weapons, the clan XL engine is what makes them so resilient.

I understand that losing one side torso with a clan XL engine is not supposed to kill them. That's fine. The problem is that that destroyed side torso blocks 50% damage to the center torso when they torso twist.

This is the reason why a stalker that torso twists is so tanky: the center torso has almost twice the health it would normally have because of the 50% damage transfer when hitting destroyed sections. This same property makes clan XL engines provide far more resilience that even a clan XL engine should normally afford.

And because someone will argue that inner sphere mechs get the option to take standard engines, you have to be pretty foolish to want a standard engine in a clan mech. With a clan XL engine you get all the weight savings that allow you to carry the firepower you need and the only "punishment" is that if you lose both your side torsos you die. It's not like you're likely in good shape if you lost both your side torsos and there aren't many clan mechs that make good zombies anyways.

I would very much like to see destroyed components not shielding 50% damage for both inner sphere and clan mechs.

you mean like every IS standard engine does? even on both sides when being destructed?

The only issue I see here, is that this does again heavily favour only a few mechs which do have the geometry to support this mechanics while others are just unable to use that ability.

Edited by Lily from animove, 10 November 2014 - 02:54 AM.

[QuantumButler]

You all realize the crotch is generally CT right....

What i'm saying is, shoot it in the ****.

[MeiSooHaityu]

It makes sense to me that a destroyed torso still blocks damage. It may not function (internals damaged beyond operation), but it still has some mass that soaks up damage to the CT.

I wouldn't change this.

[PhoenixFire55]

oneproduct, on 02 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I understand that losing one side torso with a clan XL engine is not supposed to kill them. That's fine. The problem is that that destroyed side torso blocks 50% damage to the center torso when they torso twist.

If you'd actually stop shooting the already destroyed side ... but instead of learning to aim you want devs to change the game ... again.