61 replies to this topic

[Grantham Besat]

First off thank you for reading my post. I have been posting here for a few weeks now and have digested the various discussions about mechs and tactics. It given me an idea that we as the Clans and especially as Dagger Star units should arrange a summit and exchange program. I know most of us have a website and an office on Strana Mechty so we can coordinate this easily. I would sugest this Friday 11/08/2014 say 9pm est.

[SoHxPaladin]

apparently no1 gives a rip to try and coordinate at all in prep for cw. cool beans....

[Lukoi Banacek]

Guys, what exactly do you want to do? Grand Councils, officer exchanges, open scrim nights have all been done in the past and basically peter out.

I think people do not know what to say here simply because they are not clear on what you want to accomplish.

Until CW comes out and we see exactly how it is implemented (b/c PGI has not been very clear on the mechanics thus far and has historically, changed things over time as they further refine their end product), this is a tactical shooter/FPS and not much more. Most units are loathe to spend more energy and tbh, more time, on efforts like these if there is no clear objective to reach and I cannot blame them.

When they want organization, they go to their units.

So, what is it you are trying to accomplish specifically? That might generate more interest.

[CHH Badkarma]

SoHxPaladin, on 11 November 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

apparently no1 gives a rip to try and coordinate at all in prep for cw. cool beans....

With that kind of attitude I am not supprised at all that more have not posted. Other than that I think Lukoi's post raises some good points

[Grantham Besat]

It confuses us in a lot of ways. I think the biggest issue is that both myself, Paladin, and Livwyr all come from major CW clans in world of tanks. We have all seen how CW effects the player base and no one here seems to understand. If you look at any major game title be it World of Tanks, Eve, or WoW you can see how a CW or large event system effects a game. The first thing it does it force any group that wants to play to skill check itself. This means you will see rifts torn in groups as the higher skill people clump up at the top and everyone else filters down as losses stress test units. CW will force units with skill to group or ally into large groups. Units that don't have skill and numbers will be marginalized in the process. This is pretty universal as a pattern in every game that has a map to fight over or events that require more than a single team.

[Grantham Besat]

SoHxPaladin, on 11 November 2014 - 02:13 PM, said:

apparently no1 gives a rip to try and coordinate at all in prep for cw. cool beans....

Paladin shouldn't be allowed to post he isn't exactly diplomat material

[Lukoi Banacek]

Grantham Besat, on 11 November 2014 - 05:22 PM, said:

It confuses us in a lot of ways. I think the biggest issue is that both myself, Paladin, and Livwyr all come from major CW clans in world of tanks. We have all seen how CW effects the player base and no one here seems to understand. If you look at any major game title be it World of Tanks, Eve, or WoW you can see how a CW or large event system effects a game. The first thing it does it force any group that wants to play to skill check itself. This means you will see rifts torn in groups as the higher skill people clump up at the top and everyone else filters down as losses stress test units. CW will force units with skill to group or ally into large groups. Units that don't have skill and numbers will be marginalized in the process. This is pretty universal as a pattern in every game that has a map to fight over or events that require more than a single team.

You are still not explaining what you are trying to do here GB. More of us come from major PvP/large combat experienced units than you might believe. I've managed huge sieges in Shadowbane (a purist PvP game) involving hundreds of people at a time. Multiple current and former Eve players from large corps are involved in units that play MWO.

So...what is it you want to do here? "Open summit and exchange program," does not really say anything.

[CHH Badkarma]

Grantham Besat, on 11 November 2014 - 05:30 PM, said:

Paladin shouldn't be allowed to post he isn't exactly diplomat material

My CO says the same thing about me. More of a hammer than a diplomat

[Grantham Besat]

What I really want to see is the clans to go ahead and plan out a schedule to ensure we maximize the hits on IS worlds that open. We should go ahead and figure out how to make sure that teams can share coms on strana mechty. We should go ahead and figure out a clan mech only meta because we wont get to use IS stuff at all. We should be figuring out how to county their lights how to not die to their brawling quirks etc. This is stuff we can do now.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Grantham Besat, on 11 November 2014 - 06:44 PM, said:

What I really want to see is the clans to go ahead and plan out a schedule to ensure we maximize the hits on IS worlds that open. We should go ahead and figure out how to make sure that teams can share coms on strana mechty. We should go ahead and figure out a clan mech only meta because we wont get to use IS stuff at all. We should be figuring out how to county their lights how to not die to their brawling quirks etc. This is stuff we can do now.

There's no schedule to make, until we see how CW is actually implemented, so that's largely moot.

Teams are already welcome to use SM-TS as neutral ground but the vast majority choose to use their own private TS so community discussion on TS is basically pretty isolated to the smaller TS clusters of various units.

Countering IS lights/Brawlers is already something alot of teams can do effectively (note the 12's with pure Clan-tech by quite a few teams in public queue as of late) and frankly just takes practices (and for those willing, scrimmages, which seems to be another set of smaller, insulated cliques vice full community).

Clan Meta is understood.....Laser vomit, laser vomit and the occasional supporting weapons (used in synergy with...laser vomit edit: and don't let me forget gauss). Bomber decs, ERLL decs, etc....they are already heavily used by the comp teams and the other teams will learn these techniques (if they wish to approach parity with the better teams) or they will continue to play frankenmechs because they prefer to and meta has never and likely never will affect those players. They play the game to enjoy the aesthetic more than the competition (which is fine).

The real crux here is organizing to impact CW...but since we don't know the rules of that particular part of the game as of yet and have gone through several, fairly disparate iterations of the concept from PGI, and units have been debating things like how to collaborate and how to "do" community warfare for months upon months what you are seeing from the Clans around here is "theorycraft" burn-out.

There are a ton of decent sized sub-sets of collaborating units out here in the Clan-world, who practice together, throw events together, scrimmage, host tournaments etc...but Clans-wide efforts tend to turn into multiple parties posturing for primacy in an ad hoc video game world. Some folks are willing to subborn themselves to those other informal leaders because they think it's making things happen. Others realize, this is all just a video game and a club-sport at best at the moment....and until the rules of CW are actually announced, most of this stuff is moot.

Plus, never forget...we are not going to be one big happy alliance, either via lore or via normal human interaction...we are all competing, so the "politics" inherent to that will rear its ugly head as soon as CW goes live.

p.s. Not that I'm intending to come off like we are anti-collaboration or anything of the sort. Merely that many of the more long-standing units are preferring to wait to see how CW is actually implemented before applying anymore furious energy into such collaborations.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 11 November 2014 - 07:45 PM.

[Lucky Moniker]

Nah, you nailed on the Head Lukoi, Hence why our last Grand Council attempt has stagnated (That and the Mod's computer died).

Once it hits, we will be ready, Until then we can only wait.

Speaking on coordination though... Once it does hit, we could use the Strana Mechty server to help with the PUG aspect of it. Creating Channels and sections for the plants that are up for grabs that day, so any Clan Loyalist can pop on, join in CW and be organized all the same.

[Grantham Besat]

Honestly I think more scrim nights like what we tried to do last Thursday can help. I know we dont suffer the burn out because we litterly only play to get ready fo CW. As for working as group I honestly dont care which clan takes Terra as long as it is a clan victory. I really do not know alot of clan leaders but we could put the politics in place now. I know in tanks when new land was added or a prize tank announced the winners or atleast the two main alliances formed weeks before the event started or rules were finalized. I know Pgi burned you but with the regular updates and the planned opening before years end can we atleast get the plan on how we all cordinate in place? I am not interested in a fair fight here I want the IS crushed quickly and borders drawn so we all get our little chunk of empire on the map. Heck I have seen real life lawyers used to write up game plans for CW before I am not asking for that much but I wouldnt mind if we did go that far.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 12 November 2014 - 12:02 AM.

[Grantham Besat]

Basicly we all know Wolf is divided and fairly weak. Jade Falcon has the lords and decent numbers but will lords work with them or will friction cause issues? Smoke Jaguar has one strong but very small team with very few other units to back them. Ghostbear seems to have the will to organize and the numbers but I dont know their tactics or comp history. It is going to boil down to the dagger stars to reinforce one of these groups and we will have to figure out what motive we will use to do that. Will we pick a friend whos weak or be objective to ensure that we take Terra. The more questions we answer now the stronger alliance we enter cw with.

[CHH Badkarma]

This has all been thought of before as Lukoi has pointed out. We do not sit and spin our wheels about it anymore because we are all rather burnt out on it. As stated before. Most units here have known each other for a very long time and when (if) CW does kick off long standing alliances will be reformed just as they always have been.

I applaud your eagerness. At this point however, considering PGI's track record, any detailed planning is like tossing the mech out the bay doors before being locked in a drop pod.

Edited by CHH Badkarma, 12 November 2014 - 01:56 AM.

[Grantham Besat]

I dont think focused team skrims, cross unit.drop nights, or even just us all bsing on Strana Mechty one night a week would hurt. It would likely help.

[CyclonerM]

Grantham Besat, on 12 November 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

Basicly we all know Wolf is divided and fairly weak. Jade Falcon has the lords and decent numbers but will lords work with them or will friction cause issues? Smoke Jaguar has one strong but very small team with very few other units to back them. Ghostbear seems to have the will to organize and the numbers but I dont know their tactics or comp history.

Decent assessment, but from what intelligence you say that the Wolf units are "fairly weak"?

[Grantham Besat]

CyclonerM, on 12 November 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

Decent assessment, but from what intelligence you say that the Wolf units are "fairly weak"?

I just track everyone I see in games. Easy way to see which units are where. I also keep a tab on who I see with or against me in group quee depending on the group I am with. If I am grouped with CSJX or Lords players and the group elo is high I know I am seeing better teams than if I am grouped with random Comstar people. The league records also tell the tale as you can easily see which teams perform well there. The size and frequency of the groups I see from different units also tell me their average activity level. You can also see which groups are bleeding people and which aren't and what skill level the people leaving are. If they lose their better people it indicates a weaker team while one removing baddies indicates they want to get serious. This is fairly normal in previous games I did CW in you always track the other units. The fact wolf is divided also causes weakness as it will inhibit you from working well together when in a CW match in which MM throws you together. None of my assessments are personally motivated as I simply want the clans as a whole to win. I am going to keep hammering that point until we take Terra even if I seem overeager.

Edited by Grantham Besat, 12 November 2014 - 07:46 AM.

[SoHxPaladin]

CHH Badkarma, on 11 November 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

With that kind of attitude I am not supprised at all that more have not posted. Other than that I think Lukoi's post raises some good points

eh, my attitude is to not have to use the "pug" system for the CW phase of the game, but to be working with the other clan units to ensure victory. my bluntness towards not a single person saying anything in response to a post about conversation on said topic can be taken as you wish XD

i fully understand the "burn out" and frustration at PGI for delays in CW... i think i will just say **** it and force yall to say hi to me this week. diplomat or no, i will make every attempt to get some actual answers XD

as for Clan Wolf...the only groups that are fun challenges to face, are -GK- and RCW. both of which don't interact with the other wolf units. while the other wolf units are constantly trying to prove who is worthy of being the alpha's and who are the omega's, those two beat most of whom they face. (excluding u folks demona on purpose). yes, cycloner, Clan Wolf is weak and fragmented...atm. will see what yall make of yourself in CW.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Answers to what?

[SoHxPaladin]

questions, just a few XD nothing in depth and serious bub.