118 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tastian, on 04 November 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

If you haven't seen the list yet, here it is:

https://docs.google....&pli=1&sle=true

For the most part I love them. They are mostly buffing stock builds and I think we'll see quite a few dusty mechs on the field again.

Some quirks seem different then stock but better. I think the Dragon 1C / 1N / 5N and Locust 1V fit this category.

But some are just terrible. These are the ones that bug me the most:

1) Firestarter S - This mech has dual AMS and 7 energy hard points which make it the best Firestarter for running in the middle of things. But PGI is buffing ER Large Lasers....

2) Kintaro 18 - With a stock build that has a single LRM5 and 3 SRM6s, PGI gives major quirks to the LRM5.

3) Catapult K2 - Best known for its high mounted PPCs and controversial exploited ballistic slots, PGI quirks medium lasers and the ballistic slot. Really?

And the one that bothers me the most:

4) Dragon Flame - I paid good money for this and have mainly enjoyed 4 Large Lasers or a Gauss and 4 Medium Lasers. Stock it has ER Large and AC2 (which they give buffs to the other Dragon variants) But, no, PGI gives it an AC20 buff. And not even a good one like cooldown. The Flame is NOT a Hunchback. Dragons have to go fast which mean XL engines. This makes no sense to me. And why oh why is it considered a Tier 3 mech??




Sure there are others including the Blackjacks, but these 4 really bug me.


Which ones bothers you the most?

Boar's Head AC10 buff -.-

Livewyr, on 04 November 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

This.

IMO they should have polled (imagine that right?) the players with possible quirks then went with the ones that got the highest quirks.

[Shadow Magnet]

Myke Pantera, on 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

^^ That, LL don't belong on Firestarters!!! Not a single bit! This mech could be awesome with 5ML, BAP(after changes to counter ECM range) and 2xAMS, but we get LL... What the... Give the upcoming Panthers LL (and PPC, depending on variant) buffs, not the Firestarters. Who sacrifices 6 Hardpoints to be able to carry 1 LL? Thats right, noone!


^^ Also this!

The BJ-A has a CT mounted energy hardpoint and 6, i repeat 6 ballistic hardpoints in the arms which make it the perfect 6xMG (due to light weight) and LPL in the center STD engine ZombieJack, but ney, they force an XL engine AC/20 build onto this mech. So 5 ballistic hardpoints down the drain and no ZombieJack capabilities... What a waste. But at least the BJ-1(C) comes with the perfect setup for the BJ-A but receives AC/2 buffs...

All in all the Quirk System seems pretty good, but all the ballistic versions of the BlackJacks are completely wrong. Like seriously wrong. LPL/MG for BJ-A, AC/20 for BJ-1 and AC/2 for BJ-1DC please.

Still i don't want to sound unappreciative, many of the Quirks are well thought out!!

Yes, most of the quirks are really great, but some few really make you scratch your head.
I hope PGI listens to the people and finds the time to fix those eventually.

[Lily from animove]

kapusta11, on 04 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

If the enemy allows you to hit itself with PPC at 800m+ range he's probably not a threat to anyone in the first place.

soyou cna perfectly go from cover to cover or any corner popping situation in less than 1.5 secs? WOW.

and with the current changes its not even a second anymore.

Edited by Lily from animove, 04 November 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Tastian, on 04 November 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

Energy cooldown can be cool for chainfiring or when you are light dueling or when you are being ignored.

Doesnt chain fire fire at .5 sec?

So the cooldown wouldnt do anything?

Kodyn, on 04 November 2014 - 07:10 AM, said:

(ie, Hellslinger, good quirks)

Doesnt the Hellslinger have that one quirk where it is insulated from gaining benefits for both hot AND cold maps?

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 04 November 2014 - 08:36 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 08:24 AM, said:

I feel like you meant to say PPCs here, since that's what the entire mech is built for.

But we have other threads for this conversation.

Uh, no. I meant ballistics. Sorry, it is the ONLY Catapult with ballistic slots. Every single competitive build on that 'mech is centered around a ballistics platform and for good reason. If you want PPCs on a Catapult, there is absolutely no reason to put them on a K2 when the Jester is superior in every single way for them.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Mister Blastman, on 04 November 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Uh, no. I meant ballistics. Sorry, it is the ONLY Catapult with ballistic slots. Every single competitive build on that 'mech is centered around a ballistics platform and for good reason. If you want PPCs on a Catapult, there is absolutely no reason to put them on a K2 when the Jester is superior in every single way for them.

except paintjob...and costs MC

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Mister Blastman, on 04 November 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

Uh, no. I meant ballistics. Sorry, it is the ONLY Catapult with ballistic slots. Every single competitive build on that 'mech is centered around a ballistics platform and for good reason. If you want PPCs on a Catapult, there is absolutely no reason to put them on a K2 when the Jester is superior in every single way for them.

Quirks aren't for/about 'competitive' builds, and if you want a heavy with ballistics then you have the Jagermech. The K2 is all about the high arm-mounted PPCs, sorry. The Jester is behind a paywall and thus not relevant.

[WhiskeySix]

AC2 cool down but keeping ghost heat, uh...ya...thanks?

[Bishop Steiner]

Everyone that doesn't focus on the Chassis Stock design considerations FIRST, and Comp/Meta Builds second.

All focusing the Quirks on "Meta Builds" does is force the mechs to run down narrow roads to be "optimal" whereas if they focused on it the otherway, instead of trying to tie their viability to an ever changing Meta, they would increase build diversity.

So focusing on Ballistics as primary in a K2, instead of PPCs?
SRMs on Centurions?
AC20 on the Arrow and Orion-VA?


All short sighted, bad ideas that cater purely to making the 1-2 builds deemed "comp acceptable" better, while leaving the chassis as a whole relegated to limbo.

How it should have been?

Current K2 quirks:
Catapult K2 - Tier 3 Skirmisher

Medium Laser Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range +7.5%
Medium Laser Duration -7.5%
Laser Weapon Duration -7.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%

How they SHOULD (IMO) be:

Catapult K2 - Tier 3 Skirmisher

PPC Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range +7.5%
PPC Projectile Speed +15%
Energy Weapon Duration -7.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%


Why? Because the Mech is meant to run 2 PPC, with energy and ballistics as BACK UP. Which is why the one you purchase in game comes that way. Yet for those who want to feature ballistics (which somewhat negates the point of Jagermechs in the same weight class, yes?) you still can, with bonuses.


ON1-VA

ON1-VA current Quirks:

Additional Structure (LT&RT) 8
Additional Structure (LA&RA)6
SRM6 Range10%
Missile Range10%
SRM6 Heat Gen-10%
Missile Heat Gen-10%
AC/20 Velocity10%
Ballistic Velocity10%
AC/20 Cooldown10%
Ballistic Cooldown10%

ON1-VA proposed Quirks:

Additional Structure (LT&RT) 8
Additional Structure (LA&RA)6
SRM4 Range10%
Missile Range10%
SRM4 Heat Gen-10%
Missile Heat Gen-10%
AC/10 Velocity10%
Ballistic Velocity10%
AC/10 Cooldown10%
Ballistic Cooldown10%

Why? Because the design is built around an ac10, 2x srm4 and 2x Mlaser, regardless of what the comp guys do.

But by doing them like this, you get to build and play at top benefit the closer you run it to stock, and STILL get to buff the "optimal" builds, TOO, instead of just forcing everyone to run the Comp Builds to benefit.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 November 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[TripleEhBeef]

I find it weird that the BJ-1X is getting LPL quirks. If I see a 1X, it's either running a max engine all ML build, or ML and LL/ERLL setups (which is how I run mine).

EDIT: Actually just went on Smurfy to see if I could convert my build to run 2 LPLs. I have to drop 3 heat sinks and put on FF to do it. 20% heat reduction on 2 LPLs and 10% on 6 MLs for the loss of three heat sinks. I think an additional 3 heatsinks and a 10% global heat reduction on my current build will still be a lot more efficient.

Edited by TripleEhBeef, 04 November 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 November 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

Current K2 quirks:
Catapult K2 - Tier 3 Skirmisher

Medium Laser Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range +7.5%
Medium Laser Duration -7.5%
Laser Weapon Duration -7.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%

How they SHOULD (IMO) be:

Catapult K2 - Tier 3 Skirmisher

PPC Range +7.5%
Energy Weapon Range +7.5%
PPC Projectile Speed +15%
Energy Weapon Duration -7.5%
Ballistic Weapon Cooldown +10%

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Also every quirk seems to be about weapons and/ore armor/structure.

What about radical torso twist quirks?
Enhanced sensors for scout mech quirks?
Extreme jump jet efficiency?
Maybe not give the Atlas many/any weapon quirks but insted give it like +50% torso armor to make it a huge meatshield tank?

Just off the top of my head. There are TONS of ways to do quirks that don't solely involve shooting mans.

[Logan Hawke]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Also every quirk seems to be about weapons and/ore armor/structure.

What about radical torso twist quirks?
Enhanced sensors for scout mech quirks?
Extreme jump jet efficiency?
Maybe not give the Atlas many/any weapon quirks but insted give it like +50% torso armor to make it a huge meatshield tank?

Just off the top of my head. There are TONS of ways to do quirks that don't solely involve shooting mans.

Yes this exactly. Yes. About 70-80 more yesses.

[Mister Blastman]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Quirks aren't for/about 'competitive' builds, and if you want a heavy with ballistics then you have the Jagermech. The K2 is all about the high arm-mounted PPCs, sorry. The Jester is behind a paywall and thus not relevant.

No. It has always been about ballistics. I don't see why everyone gets hung up on the PPCs. Sure, they are stock. Sure, it goes with lore. But beyond that, without how MWO plays, there is no reason at all to use PPCs on them. Okay, they are high-mounted... but the K2 is also low to the ground, relatively quick, has superior torso twisting--there is a huge reason why you see AC5/AC20/Gauss dominating the usage of the K2.

PPCs on it are pointless.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 08:56 AM, said:

Also every quirk seems to be about weapons and/ore armor/structure.

What about radical torso twist quirks?
Enhanced sensors for scout mech quirks?
Extreme jump jet efficiency?
Maybe not give the Atlas many/any weapon quirks but insted give it like +50% torso armor to make it a huge meatshield tank?

Just off the top of my head. There are TONS of ways to do quirks that don't solely involve shooting mans.

Also increased time on UAV for scouts?
1/2/3 more shots from strikes?
Less dmg to legs on JJ mechs from falling?

[xeromynd]

BJ-A has AC/20 quirks instead of MG quirks. I guess Paul runs his Arrow with 6 AC20's

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Mister Blastman, on 04 November 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

I don't see why everyone gets hung up on the PPCs. Sure, they are stock. Sure, it goes with lore.

You just answered your own question.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mister Blastman, on 04 November 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

No. It has always been about ballistics. I don't see why everyone gets hung up on the PPCs. Sure, they are stock. Sure, it goes with lore. But beyond that, without how MWO plays, there is no reason at all to use PPCs on them. Okay, they are high-mounted... but the K2 is also low to the ground, relatively quick, has superior torso twisting--there is a huge reason why you see AC5/AC20/Gauss dominating the usage of the K2.

PPCs on it are pointless.

Currently, but not after a proper quirk pass. People say it is useless now, but they forget how good PPCs can be if "quirked" right. Go watch the Awesome quirk video by NGNG. If the Cat could do that with PPCs, why not run it and gain the arm mount advantage? *shrug*

[Mister Blastman]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 09:04 AM, said:

You just answered your own question.

Well I don't care about lore. Thus, I answered your question with what is relevant to MWO as a player, not a purist. I play to win. Everything else be damned.

Yes, I'm one of those.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

xeromynd, on 04 November 2014 - 09:02 AM, said:

BJ-A has AC/20 quirks instead of MG quirks. I guess Paul runs his Arrow with 6 AC20's

and w/o any energy backup weapons