118 replies to this topic

[Macksheen]

I just posted another thread on this. Some baffle me; I'll recap a bit here.

Compare the SRM capabilities of the 4SP and 4J Hunchback. The one with the quirks that say "SRM" is probably worse than the one that says "LRM".

The mis-match of quirks based on default load vs. common use astounds me. Sure, give the SHD quirks based on the champion, but go the other way on the Blackjack, etc. Half the heroes make little sense. The GRF designated as the SRM brawler gets ... range ... on 4s ... the WVR gets heat reduction and cooldown ... on 6s ... which is better?

[kapusta11]

Lily from animove, on 04 November 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

no sure, having srm range is not useless when it makes you stay outside soemone elses rm's and you being in range.
also PPC/ERPPC rnage is also not that pointless. when you use it at 1000m you will do more damage due to the dropoff starting later.

Energy cooldown, that is probably really a useless one, since most energy boats run hot sooner or later anyways.

If the enemy allows you to hit itself with PPC at 800m+ range he's probably not a threat to anyone in the first place.

[Mercules]

kapusta11, on 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Commando is a joke mech, nothing will help it

Good to know there are people out there that will still underestimate me when I hop into my Commandos.

kapusta11, on 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

By the time SRM volley reaches 270m mark the target will be long gone

So there is a mech that runs over 300m/s now? Maybe you are trying to explain that since you can't lead a target no one can?

kapusta11, on 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Same thing with PPC, EFFECTIVE range is determined by projectile speed.

Ah, yeah... I get it, you haven't figured out how to lead a moving target.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Macksheen, on 04 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

Compare the SRM capabilities of the 4SP and 4J Hunchback. The one with the quirks that say "SRM" is probably worse than the one that says "LRM".

I don't understand this line. Both mechs have 20 tubes, but the one with a hunch is the LRM one and the one with basically no hunch at all is the brawler SRM guy.

They can both mount about the same amount of lasers (4J can mount one more, but good luck managing heat with 6xML and LRMs, I had to downgrade 4 to SL) but the 4J only gets 2 on the arms for free aiming.

[kapusta11]

Mercules, on 04 November 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Good to know there are people out there that will still underestimate me when I hop into my Commandos.

So there is a mech that runs over 300m/s now? Maybe you are trying to explain that since you can't lead a target no one can?
Ah, yeah... I get it, you haven't figured out how to lead a moving target.

Yep, I'm a noob.

[Bront]

The Firestarter S quirks are puzzling. More puzzling is the H getting the ML quirks when none of the others did.

Some of the quirks at least make sense. The firestarter quirks were kinda odd, though I do understand they wanted to make the chasis even more distinct.

Most of the missile quirks point out how badly they need to merge quirks and modules for LRMs and SRMs rather than have one for each launcher.

Triban, on 04 November 2014 - 07:36 AM, said:

Firestarter K - Even with the buffs (which SHOULD have been SPLAS buffs), it's always better to run 6 MLAS instead of 8 SLAS. More damage, less heat, more range.

Logic.

With the range buffs and module, SL range will be 200 meters, which should make the 8 SL build interesting. I had great success with that build last weekend as well, with half the range (no module, no quirks yet, no SL buff yet).

[Bront]

kapusta11, on 04 November 2014 - 06:27 AM, said:

• SRM range
  
• PPC/ERPPC range
  
• Energy weapon cooldown

All wasted quirks.

SRM range is great on large mechs like the Atlas-S, which has range issues with many popular builds.

PPC/ERPPC range, along with the speed increase, make it more useful at long range. Keep in mind it can double the damage at some point beyond max range.

Energy Cooldown is nice for brawlers, and works well with the Energy Heat Generation quirks. Take the Commando TDK, that's getting -10% cooldown and -10% heat gen, which basically cancels itself out over time. End result is 10% higher DPS with no heat increase.

[Tastian]

kapusta11, on 04 November 2014 - 07:41 AM, said:

Commando is a joke mech, nothing will help it

This is the person I love fighting in my commandos - the ones that ignore it cause its a joke.

And I love going under the ramps in HPG

[Triban]

Bront, on 04 November 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

The Firestarter S quirks are puzzling. More puzzling is the H getting the ML quirks when none of the others did.

Some of the quirks at least make sense. The firestarter quirks were kinda odd, though I do understand they wanted to make the chasis even more distinct.

Most of the missile quirks point out how badly they need to merge quirks and modules for LRMs and SRMs rather than have one for each launcher.
With the range buffs and module, SL range will be 200 meters, which should make the 8 SL build interesting. I had great success with that build last weekend as well, with half the range (no module, no quirks yet, no SL buff yet).

8 SLAS: 24 Damage, 200 range
6 MLAS: 30 Damage, 334 range (with modules)

I rest my case.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Triban, on 04 November 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

8 SLAS: 24 Damage, 200 range
6 MLAS: 30 Damage, 334 range (with modules)

I rest my case.

SLAS have a shorter cooldown and beam duration though, right? DPS over time would be higher.

[Macksheen]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

I don't understand this line. Both mechs have 20 tubes, but the one with a hunch is the LRM one and the one with basically no hunch at all is the brawler SRM guy.

They can both mount about the same amount of lasers (4J can mount one more, but good luck managing heat with 6xML and LRMs, I had to downgrade 4 to SL) but the 4J only gets 2 on the arms for free aiming.

The real kick is the 4SP gets:
- 20% cooldown for SRM6 (10 general, 10 specific)
- 20% range for SRM6 (10 general, 10 specific)
- 20% heat gen on ML

And the 4J gets - even while running SRMs ...
- 25% general cooldown on missiles (better than the 20 from the 4SP)
- 12.5% missile heat gen
- no wasted SRM range
- 15% general laser heat gen

The dual heat discounts are likely better if the 4J is your better SRM brawler ...

Edited by Macksheen, 04 November 2014 - 08:15 AM.

[Bront]

Macksheen, on 04 November 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

I just posted another thread on this. Some baffle me; I'll recap a bit here.

Compare the SRM capabilities of the 4SP and 4J Hunchback. The one with the quirks that say "SRM" is probably worse than the one that says "LRM".

The mis-match of quirks based on default load vs. common use astounds me. Sure, give the SHD quirks based on the champion, but go the other way on the Blackjack, etc. Half the heroes make little sense. The GRF designated as the SRM brawler gets ... range ... on 4s ... the WVR gets heat reduction and cooldown ... on 6s ... which is better?

Actually, after reading the 4J's, it looks like some of those are Typos. A teir 4 mech should have 20% total quirks, not 25% (or 50% in one case).

[Triban]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

SLAS have a shorter cooldown and beam duration though, right? DPS over time would be higher.

Only when in optimal range. It's much better to do strafing runs, and with ML range, that would net you more damage. Rarely is a good light pilot under 160m for longer than 7 seconds.

[Macksheen]

Bront, on 04 November 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

Actually, after reading the 4J's, it looks like some of those are Typos. A teir 4 mech should have 20% total quirks, not 25% (or 50% in one case).

Totally could be. We could be all reacting over typos.

This is, after all, the internet.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Macksheen, on 04 November 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

The real kick is the 4SP gets:
- 20% cooldown for SRM6 (10 general, 10 specific)
- 20% range for SRM6 (10 general, 10 specific)
- 20% heat gen on ML

And the 4J gets - even while running SRMs ...
- 25% general cooldown on missiles (better than the 20 from the 4SP)
- 12.5% missile heat gen
- no wasted SRM range
- 15% general laser heat gen

The dual heat discounts are likely better if the 4J is your better SRM brawler ...

I still think the 4SP makes a better brawler, though. The 4J has all your missiles (and more than half your lasers) tied up in one torso; lose it and you're down to two laser mounts.

The 4SP's SRM range mod isn't useless and you can't mount anything heavier than MLs and manage to fire them anyway, and you have to lose BOTH side torsos to completely negate your missile armament. And the 4SPs side torsos are getting a bigger buff individually to armor/structure than the 4J's single ST gets.

So I guess yeah, the 4J is getting 'better' all-around missile quirks but the 4SP still makes a better SRM platform/brawler because of the mech/model itself IMO.

[Bront]

Triban, on 04 November 2014 - 08:09 AM, said:

8 SLAS: 24 Damage, 200 range
6 MLAS: 30 Damage, 334 range (with modules)

I rest my case.

8 SLAS: 16 Heat
6 MLAS: 24 Heat

SO, 6 points less damage, ~66% less range, but 50% less heat gen.

How about DPS?

8 SLAS: 7.12 DPS
6 MLAS: 7.98 DPS

So, DPS is almost equal.

Weight?

8 SLAS: 4 tons
6 MLAS: 6 Tons

Throw in a cooldown module, and throw in extra JJs, or DHS with the weight saved, and you've got a very competitive mech. Will it be your cup of tea? Maybe not, but for folks who already run the SPL builds, the SL build is very appealing.

Macksheen, on 04 November 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

Totally could be. We could be all reacting over typos.

This is, after all, the internet.

Overreacting? On the Internet?

Nah, can't be!

[Mister Blastman]

K2 is all about the ballistics, sorry. Only a fool uses PPCs on it.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Mister Blastman, on 04 November 2014 - 08:22 AM, said:

K2 is all about the ballistics, sorry. Only a fool uses PPCs on it.

I feel like you meant to say PPCs here, since that's what the entire mech is built for.

But we have other threads for this conversation.

[Macksheen]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

I still think the 4SP makes a better brawler, though. The 4J has all your missiles (and more than half your lasers) tied up in one torso; lose it and you're down to two laser mounts.

The 4SP's SRM range mod isn't useless and you can't mount anything heavier than MLs and manage to fire them anyway, and you have to lose BOTH side torsos to completely negate your missile armament. And the 4SPs side torsos are getting a bigger buff individually to armor/structure than the 4J's single ST gets.

So I guess yeah, the 4J is getting 'better' all-around missile quirks but the 4SP still makes a better SRM platform/brawler because of the mech/model itself IMO.

I do see your opinion, but my own opinion would be that a hunchback with a mess of stuff in the right torso is kinda how it's meant to be ;-)

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Tastian, on 04 November 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

3) Catapult K2 - Best known for its high mounted PPCs and controversial exploited ballistic slots, PGI quirks medium lasers and the ballistic slot. Really?

What?
Paul was drunk when he made quirks for K2?