118 replies to this topic

[DarthPeanut]

https://www.youtube....d&v=oDtEbelkIro

New Dev Vlog. Russ talks a bit about the quirk system if you have not seen it. Might be relevant to some who are wondering how/ why they choose some quirks on this initial pass.

[C E Dwyer]

The K2 quirks really disturb me, they should get PPc quirks not lasrer quirks and the only ballistic quirk if any should be MG's only.

PGI not only dropped the ball with this one, they missed the entire stadium as it fell, to have produced such canon like quirks for an awful lot of mechs only to completely ignore it for the K2

I smell the work of a NGNG minmaxer

Edited by Cathy, 04 November 2014 - 10:58 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

DarthPeanut, on 04 November 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

https://www.youtube....d&v=oDtEbelkIro

New Dev Vlog. Russ talks a bit about the quirk system if you have not seen it. Might be relevant to some who are wondering how/ why they choose some quirks on this initial pass.

Yeah Russ's thoughts starting at 9:00 or so are just so convoluted. he basically says that a lot of stock builds aren't competitive in the current meta so they decided to quirk for meta builds instead.

That totally invalidates the entire point of adding quirks...

[Sean von Steinike]

Well, any bonus is a good bonus when it comes to an under-performing mech but some of these certainly are head scratchers. It's a first pass though at comprehensive quirks. I expect there will be many changes coming.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Sean von Steinike, on 04 November 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

Well, any bonus is a good bonus when it comes to an under-performing mech but some of these certainly are head scratchers. It's a first pass though at comprehensive quirks. I expect there will be many changes coming.

When he confirmed it was a first pass he then said they wanted to do a second pass on MOBILITY quirks.

Maybe I'm being paranoid but that can be taken as them being happy with the weaponry-based quirks.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

imo about the quirks:

Quote

Id LIKE to see them do polls for the quirks. In game polls - theyd have to code it because as we've been told its not in there now (IMO it would be worth the CW delay as it needs to be implimented sooner or later and sooner WOULD be better than later) - if possible.

Like for instance (just examples as I really dont know what would go good for this mech as Its not in yet and I havent looked at the loadout):

Grasshopper

Weapons Cooldown

1: +10% ballistics cooldown
2: +10% energy cooldown
3: +10% missile cooldown
4: No cooldown needed

Weapons heat generation

1: +10% ballistics heat dissipation
2: +10% energy heat dissipation
3: +10% missile heat dissipation
4: No heat dissipation needed

Mech speed


1: +10% Torso twist speed
2: +10% acceleration
3: +10% stop speed
4: No quirk needed

ect

It would be a long poll but then youd see where players think help is needed instead of trying to push stock loadouts or where the by feel devs think the quirks need to be. I know (now that I looked it up) the Boars Head has a AC/10 stock but who runs it with that O.o

In short; ask US where they should be.

and note thats an in game poll (maybe they could gift free mc for completing it) not a forum poll.

I do like the negative quirk for med lasers on the locust tho lol

Apparently they mean it to be a ERLGLas boat

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 04 November 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Dragomir Zelenka]

The more I look at them, the more annoyed I get at the Blackjack quirks, particularly the Arrow and BJ-1. They're completely nonsensical from a chassis point of view, and are one of the quirk sets which seem blatantly designed to push hero mech sales at the expense of a mech you can buy for space dollars.

I'm also not fond of the BJ-1DC coming with 6 energy slots, but getting absolutely no quirks for them.

[TercieI]

Cavale, on 04 November 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Generally speaking, the PPC + Gauss is better than the dakka whale, tbqh.

And gauss and lasers are better than either of those.

[Mothykins]

Terciel1976, on 04 November 2014 - 11:20 AM, said:

And gauss and lasers are better than either of those.

Let me guess....

x2 gauss, x2 LPL, and the rest of the slots ERMed las?

[Windsaw]

That Guy, on 04 November 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

none of the firestarters getting flamer quirks.

Wahahaha!!!
Indeed!

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 04 November 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

The K2 isn't a comp 'mech at the moment. It wants to be. But it isn't. The Jager and 3D have several serious advantages over the K2. Making PPCs better on the K2 won't make it comp.

No crap. Really. But it WILL improve the mech overall. Because the point being, for 95% of MWO's playerbase there is life outside of Comp. And due to hitbox and Hardpoint locations, the majority of Mechswill never be "Comp Approved" no matter how they quirk them.

Comp will ALWAYS come down to a handful of chassis and builds that utterly maximize everything, period. The K2 is unlikely to ever be "Comp" again, no matter the buffs. Trying to shoehorn every mech into one or two semi comp configurations is a waste of time, and will ultimately fail regardless, thus perhaps, since the majority of the playerbase is not comp, and most of these mechs will return to being roundly ignored by the Comps anyhow, maybe the comps are not the common denominator these should be built for?

Problem with most Comps is like the problem most of the world has with Americans (of which I am one, for better or worse). You think your opinions, worries and views are the only ones that matter, despite making up a small part of the world population.

And with typical Comp Myopathy, you overlook all the points and suggestions, attempts at middle ground. SMH.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 04 November 2014 - 11:32 AM.

[Shalune]

HBK-4J got completely shafted.

For some reason it gets less bonus HP in its one big hunch than the SP gets on both side torsos. And instead of matching the stock build or any popular builds, which would at least include ML, we got ER LL.

Giving the BJ's AC/20 quirk to the premium mech was also a **** move.

And all of this in the same patch that the best weapon in the game, cLPL, gets huge buffs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Shalune, on 04 November 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

HBK-4J got completely shafted.

For some reason it gets less bonus HP in its one big hunch than the SP gets on both side torsos. And instead of matching the stock build or any popular builds, which would at least include ML, we got ER LL.

Giving the BJ's AC/20 quirk to the premium mech was also a **** move.

And all of this in the same patch that the best weapon in the game, cLPL, gets huge buffs.

well. cLPL was hardly best weapon in the game, but the rest yeah, gotta agree with.

[Mothykins]

So, also of note, the Jester and K2 still have the nerfed torso twist.

Much thanks Russ, for completely and totally screwing the Jester. Smallest movement on the arms and torso of any Catapult.

[stjobe]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 04 November 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

Yeah Russ's thoughts starting at 9:00 or so are just so convoluted. he basically says that a lot of stock builds aren't competitive in the current meta so they decided to quirk for meta builds instead.

That totally invalidates the entire point of adding quirks...

Feels like that's just giving up, to be honest.

The quirks should be there to make stock builds better, not to try to make every chassis tier 1A comp builds - because that's aiming way, way, WAY too high for a quirk system, and it's doomed to failure from the outset.

When none of the Firestarters are getting Flamer quirks, there's something wrong with either your quirk system, the Flamer, or both.
When the K2 Cat doesn't get PPC quirks, there's something wrong with either your quirk system, the PPC, or both.
When the CN9-A gets SRM-4 quirks instead of AC/10 quirks, there's definitely something wrong with your quirk system.

Quirks should encourage stock loadouts by making these more effective - even if they won't make those builds "competitive" in the tier 1 comp scene meaning of the word.

[TercieI]

Cavale, on 04 November 2014 - 11:22 AM, said:

Let me guess....

x2 gauss, x2 LPL, and the rest of the slots ERMed las?

I see lots of variants with lasers. I just don't see PPCs any more.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Shalune, on 04 November 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

HBK-4J got completely shafted.

For some reason it gets less bonus HP in its one big hunch than the SP gets on both side torsos. And instead of matching the stock build or any popular builds, which would at least include ML, we got ER LL.

4J doesn't need as much armor buff since it's a stay back in the back and lob LRMs mech.

It actually has fantastic quirks - well, except for the random ERLL one.

Edited by Alexander MacTaggart, 04 November 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[Eddrick]

Tastian, on 04 November 2014 - 06:16 AM, said:

3) Catapult K2 - Best known for its high mounted PPCs and controversial exploited ballistic slots, PGI quirks medium lasers and the ballistic slot. Really?

This.

I'm not very thrilled with what they did to the BattleMaster-1D, either.

[Kirkland Langue]

holy cow - 3 minutes for the first answer which was basically "we wanted to balance the mechs".
That was painful to listen to Russ - you need to lay off the bong.

EDIT Second question was answered MUCH better.

Answer 3 is the meat of the question - how to decide which quirks each mech gets: what would make them more competitive and move up the tiers. While we can argue whether an individual mech (Grid Iron) acctually becomes better or not (it won't) - at least there is a generalized rational which we can focus upon when we make our arguments that a particular mech needs changing.

Answer 4 - Future mech pass? Yes.

Answer 5 - something something about new mechs? Stopped listening cause it didn't sound like it was about quirk pass.

Edited by Kirkland Langue, 04 November 2014 - 12:09 PM.