23 replies to this topic

[Destoroyah]

Why must the Adder suffer with a fixed flamer in the CT when the Ice Ferret and it looks like the other wave 2 clan mechs can remove their center torso equipment? I thought weapons and equipment that were in the head or CT of clan mechs were always supposed to be fixed. Now I could understand things like ammo being removable cause if you don't got the weapon then why the ammo. So why is the Adder forced to suffer with the terribad flamer when the other mechs can change their gear to fit their build?

[The Mechromancer]

Lore

[Destoroyah]

lore isn't a good excuse in this case if they are going to penalize some mechs with fixed head/CT equipment then it's only fair they all are or the rule is removed. They changed the JJs on the timber S to fixed cause the other JJ clan mechs had fixed JJs so the same principle should aplly here.

[GreyNovember]

Admittedly not the most effective weapon, but I find it rather endearing on the Adder. If nothing else, you can run up to an enemy assault and distract him with your flamer while your buddies line up a shot.

What about fixed JJs on the Summoner and Nova?

[CycKath]

Hard fix all of the equipment!

Seriously though, no, centre torso and head equipment does not have to be fixed unless the designers chose too, and they chose to with the Puma but not the Fenris. Not much else can be said.

[Mordin Ashe]

My opinion is that would PGI make that flamer removable, Adder would be T2 Mech, perhaps even T1. But with that useless thing in place Adder really suffers from lacking hardpoints to mount multiple light weapons which is the key to light Mech success, just look at Jenners and Firestarters. It is T3 for me now, and removing that useless thing that hurts you more than it does the enemy is a step in the right way.

[Willard Phule]

Destoroyah, on 06 November 2014 - 01:03 AM, said:

lore isn't a good excuse in this case if they are going to penalize some mechs with fixed head/CT equipment then it's only fair they all are or the rule is removed. They changed the JJs on the timber S to fixed cause the other JJ clan mechs had fixed JJs so the same principle should aplly here.

But ONLY in the case of Clan mechs.

Lore doesn't work in the case of IS mechs. IS mechs have to be fully, 100% customizable. No fixed anything for them. They have to have the overall flexibility of an Omnimech to show that....er....wait.....oh, nevermind. I forgot. PGI is rewriting canon.

[Lily from animove]

Willard Phule, on 06 November 2014 - 01:58 AM, said:

But ONLY in the case of Clan mechs.

Lore doesn't work in the case of IS mechs. IS mechs have to be fully, 100% customizable. No fixed anything for them. They have to have the overall flexibility of an Omnimech to show that....er....wait.....oh, nevermind. I forgot. PGI is rewriting canon.

yes but how long did lore disable your mech when you customised it? how about lettign any change at a IS mech take, lets say 3-6 month? would like to knwo how often people are going customisation crazy then.

Lore is: rarely some IS emchs were customised, and if, superexpensive, super faulty super long refitting times.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 November 2014 - 02:25 AM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

PGI is taking every opportunity to have Clan mechs be better balanced against IS mechs. So, they're not letting you remove that head energy weapon in the Adder. You just have to deal with it.

BTW, I still think Clan mechs are OP compared against even IS mechs with quirks. Quirks were never to make them Clan level of greatness, but to make them competitive with the 5 or so "good" IS mechs that were in the game. The Clans are still better if you ask me.

[Tarogato]

Forget about whether it's fixed or removable... just buff flamers so that they're actually worth taking. It's such a neat weapon but its numbers are just so weak and ineffective right now. Let that thing deal some heat, man, and give it increased effectiveness against open internals.

[Captain Stiffy]

The Mechromancer, on 06 November 2014 - 12:58 AM, said:

Lore

Is that why there's no firestarter with flamer perks?

[Hans Von Lohman]

Tarogato, on 06 November 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

Forget about whether it's fixed or removable... just buff flamers so that they're actually worth taking. It's such a neat weapon but its numbers are just so weak and ineffective right now. Let that thing deal some heat, man, and give it increased effectiveness against open internals.

I agree.

They got MG's working so you actually see people using them, but they have to be boated to make that work.

To me the Flamer needs to do more than just raise the heat level of your enemy. I think the Flamers should be able to set the enemy on fire when they reach 90% heat scale. If you hit an enemy who is already above 90%, then your done. Instant fire state.

Being on fire should do damage over time, perhaps 20 seconds or so. That way a light with a flamer could wait for an enemy to get really hot, dash in, hose him down with barely any flame at all to get him on fire, then run off again to wait for the damage to do it's thing.

Another possible buff to the Flamer would be to make it act similar to being NARC'ed. If you get set on fire, you show up on radar even through cover just like being NARC'ed does, or to be specific it makes it take longer to drop off radar when you move out of sight, but you're also on fire. Normally it takes 2 seconds for you to drop off enemy radar. When you are on fire it should take 5 or more seconds to drop off radar. Or it could be just like NARC. That could work.

Edited by Hans Von Lohman, 06 November 2014 - 03:04 AM.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Captain Stiffy, on 06 November 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

Is that why there's no firestarter with flamer perks?

If the Flamer had some actual benefits for the game, I would be OK with giving the Firestarter some flamer quirks.

It is actual lore that you cannot take out the Flamer from the Adder. Here, the main reason isn't because the flamer is good, but because PGI is using anything possible to help nerf down the Clan mechs. Here, the lore worked for them, so they took it.

[Tarogato]

Hans Von Lohman, on 06 November 2014 - 02:48 AM, said:

I agree. ... I think it should do damage over time, and fire like a medium laser with a fixed beam duration, and then continue to damage that enemy as long as he is burning. ... If you get set on fire, you show up on radar even through cover just like being NARC'ed does.

I appreciate your support, but none of that makes much sense. Since when is a column of fire capable of transmitting targeting data? I think it's fine without a "beam duration" - you're just spewing a bunch of chemicals and igniting them at a nozzle, it doesn't build up heat like lasers do (which need to be turned off and cooled down after each use to prevent self inflicted-damage) and also, a flame doesn't do that much damage, it's not like a laser which is concentrated and can burn holes or a projectile which has penetration and impulse, a flamer just heats things up, and our 'mech armour is a good insulator against that, hence why I suggest it should deal increased damage and heat to internals (because heat does damage internals, it doesn't necessarily damage armour)

Oh yeah, and buff the flamer so it's not useless if you only equip one. Give diminishing returns so that 1 is great, 2 is better, 3 is better, but the more you stack it isn't OP. And not via ghost heat, oh gawd please thnx

Edited by Tarogato, 06 November 2014 - 02:58 AM.

[Cygone]

The Adder does very much suffer from this fixed flamer.

Even if they removed it and removed the HP to go with it, it would be a buff.

Please remove this fixed flamer.

Thanks.

[Willard Phule]

Lily from animove, on 06 November 2014 - 02:25 AM, said:

yes but how long did lore disable your mech when you customised it? how about lettign any change at a IS mech take, lets say 3-6 month? would like to knwo how often people are going customisation crazy then.

Lore is: rarely some IS emchs were customised, and if, superexpensive, super faulty super long refitting times.

Lore is: Omnimechs are an improvement over Battlemechs because they can be QUICKLY customized to handle any situation. That means putting ECM and Jump Jets into "pod space" if you feel like it.

Unfortunately, this iteration of the Mechwarrior series is being written by people who have a different vision of the game than I do. That means that IS mechs are actually more customizable than Omnis. Go figure.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 06 November 2014 - 04:26 PM.
Insult

[NextGame]

Destoroyah, on 06 November 2014 - 12:57 AM, said:

Why must the Adder suffer with a fixed flamer in the CT

So we have one extra thing to complain about on the forum

[Lily from animove]

Tarogato, on 06 November 2014 - 02:37 AM, said:

Forget about whether it's fixed or removable... just buff flamers so that they're actually worth taking. It's such a neat weapon but its numbers are just so weak and ineffective right now. Let that thing deal some heat, man, and give it increased effectiveness against open internals.

just make flamers to produce no heat like MG's. Their damage is lauhghable low yet they generate heat lik a baws.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 November 2014 - 03:57 AM.

[Mordin Ashe]

Wither buff the flamer so it has some purpose or get rid of it. No flamer and you have T2 or perhaps even a T1 Mech. Simple. Russ, I beg you!

[Thorn Hallis]

While "lore" is the reason, it's no real excuse to not change it. PGI has bended the lore over and over again, why not in this case (+ the fixed JJs in the Summoner).