227 replies to this topic

[AlmightyAeng]

Bront, on 05 November 2014 - 05:37 AM, said:

I rarely take it out on the team, but sometimes, the reason you die first is because your team abandons you. Either they don't stay around you when you're fighting, or they don't come with when you head into battle.

Now, some of this is a communication issue, so if you never asked them to charge with you, then don't expect them to read your mind.

To be fair, even when you're with a team on comms, just because you're communicating that you're high and dry and alone it doesn't necessarily mean they can come save you.

Last night I was playing my D-DC in the group on Caustic. They pushed foward a bit with our 3L and I stayed toward the back providing cover for the fatties. A PAIR of Raven 3L's and a 3D snuck up and starting wailing on me. As I'm fighting I informed my team and asked for a quick hand.

The response?

"We're kinda busy in a brawl up here right now." So, I stayed alive as long as I could, torso twisting, shooting legs, planting AC/20's in the 3D's torso until he blew up...and then got to the point where I NARC'd BOTH Raven's and mentioned it on comms and the pair were lit up like Christmas trees by my team's LRMs. They'd finished the engagement on the other side of the cauldron.

I was at about 42%, missing most of my ass armor and all of my right torso...but we regrouped and hunted down the last 3 as a team. It was great.

Was I pissed that I couldn't get instant assistance? No. Did I still WANT it? HELL YES. But sometimes, even with fantastic communication, you gotta be able to take some names by yourself. Sometimes you go down doing it.

[mogs01gt]

Bhael Fire, on 05 November 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

As mentioned by others, my standard reply is "Says the dead guy..."
A good rule of thumb for new players is, if you're dead...keep your mouth shut unless you are actually helping your team.
Blaming and shaming your team from the grave is the hallmark of a dead NOOB.

In my experience, it was the teams fault. Last round, Our lights were scouting but half our team was too busy moving in the wrong direction..Soo the lights died.

Edited by mogs01gt, 05 November 2014 - 10:03 AM.

[Gallowglas]

Michael Abt, on 05 November 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Despite piloting a Hunch i often start pushes, either up front or by by attacking from the rear/flank. It really upsets me that despite announcing it in chat, even typing "PUSH" while i am still fighting the rest of my team is just standing around and enjoying the show. What upsets me about it is not my death, i absolutely know that it is very likely when i am committing myself, it is the fact that my effort was not only in vain but them missing the window of opportunity is going to cost us the match.

Anecdotally, whether or not I personally respond to such a directive is situational. Am I set up to brawl or snipe? What's the condition of my team versus theirs? Who holds the terrain and position advantages? How much open ground and/or fire am I going to have to endure before getting in brawl range? What is the relative strengths of the two teams with regard to brawling? Am I with my own unit in sufficient numbers to be operating upon our own set of tactics?

I've seen a number of occasions where we've dropped as a 10-man and two guys call for a push, charging headlong into the enemy and then complain when my unit is set up to control high ground, choke points, etc. for the longer game.

Granted, again, it's situational. Sometimes a push is indeed the best course of action and people become too timid.

[RussianWolf]

Michael Abt, on 05 November 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Despite piloting a Hunch i often start pushes, either up front or by by attacking from the rear/flank. It really upsets me that despite announcing it in chat, even typing "PUSH" while i am still fighting the rest of my team is just standing around and enjoying the show. What upsets me about it is not my death, i absolutely know that it is very likely when i am committing myself, it is the fact that my effort was not only in vain but them missing the window of opportunity is going to cost us the match.

The thing is that Chat is very inefficient.

If you are in the thick of things you likely are not going to glance up to see if something is posted.

If you are in cover, maybe, but then half the players I spectate are so focused on the center of the screen that they don't notice the fire they are taking to their rear. Built in Voice comms helps but only if people use it.

[Monkey Lover]

DaZur, on 05 November 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Going "Leroy Jenkins" into the fray in order to "do something" is not necessarily by definition the epitome of a "good player".

There's a time to play peek-a-boo and there's a time to push... Knowing when both are appropriate and knowing when to do one or the other is a signature of a "good player".

peekaboo almost never works. They always flank you and you die. IF you stand in the same place for more then a few minutes the game is over.


Over all being in the front is not "leroy" As im sure most the people around here know as i see them slowing down when walking in a line to allow the other players in front. They have no problems playing peek-a-boo from behind me as cover. These are the players who are rewarded and live the longest.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 05 November 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[mogs01gt]

LMAO another match. I said care for saddle base cap, opponents go for cap(and succeed) because half the team goes through tunnel. The mechs that were covering the saddle were wiped out..


Its almost always the teams fault.

[Bront]

Ghost Badger, on 05 November 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

To be fair, even when you're with a team on comms, just because you're communicating that you're high and dry and alone it doesn't necessarily mean they can come save you.

Last night I was playing my D-DC in the group on Caustic. They pushed foward a bit with our 3L and I stayed toward the back providing cover for the fatties. A PAIR of Raven 3L's and a 3D snuck up and starting wailing on me. As I'm fighting I informed my team and asked for a quick hand.

The response?

"We're kinda busy in a brawl up here right now." So, I stayed alive as long as I could, torso twisting, shooting legs, planting AC/20's in the 3D's torso until he blew up...and then got to the point where I NARC'd BOTH Raven's and mentioned it on comms and the pair were lit up like Christmas trees by my team's LRMs. They'd finished the engagement on the other side of the cauldron.

I was at about 42%, missing most of my ass armor and all of my right torso...but we regrouped and hunted down the last 3 as a team. It was great.

Was I pissed that I couldn't get instant assistance? No. Did I still WANT it? HELL YES. But sometimes, even with fantastic communication, you gotta be able to take some names by yourself. Sometimes you go down doing it.

At least that was an informed decision though. Also, it's not like you were with your team, and as you started taking fire they then left you alone, which happens in PUGs.

[Michael Abt]

Gallowglas, on 05 November 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

Anecdotally, whether or not I personally respond to such a directive is situational. Am I set up to brawl or snipe? What's the condition of my team versus theirs? Who holds the terrain and position advantages? How much open ground and/or fire am I going to have to endure before getting in brawl range? What is the relative strengths of the two teams with regard to brawling? Am I with my own unit in sufficient numbers to be operating upon our own set of tactics?

I've seen a number of occasions where we've dropped as a 10-man and two guys call for a push, charging headlong into the enemy and then complain when my unit is set up to control high ground, choke points, etc. for the longer game.

Granted, again, it's situational. Sometimes a push is indeed the best course of action and people become too timid.

RussianWolf, on 05 November 2014 - 10:08 AM, said:

The thing is that Chat is very inefficient.

If you are in the thick of things you likely are not going to glance up to see if something is posted.

If you are in cover, maybe, but then half the players I spectate are so focused on the center of the screen that they don't notice the fire they are taking to their rear. Built in Voice comms helps but only if people use it.

Yesterday, Mordor, i moved around to an empty entrance to center while my team clustered up at another one. I announced my charge, even typed "push" while fighting. On the minimap they should have seen enemy locations. I blew up two enemies before i decided to jump down into the lava because the rest of my team was tied up by one ferret guarding their entrance. Match was lost in the end.

[Scout Derek]

One thing can be said: those who aren't in a group blame others, but when IN a group, they sober up instead of being a complete ***. Enuf said.

[Gallowglas]

Michael Abt, on 05 November 2014 - 10:14 AM, said:

Yesterday, Mordor, i moved around to an empty entrance to center while my team clustered up at another one. I announced my charge, even typed "push" while fighting. On the minimap they should have seen enemy locations. I blew up two enemies before i decided to jump down into the lava because the rest of my team was tied up by one ferret guarding their entrance. Match was lost in the end.

Stalling out at the entrance to the inner ring on Terra Therma is an almost universal recipe for disaster, I'd agree. Anytime you have to fight in a choke point, you're at a disadvantage. The equation should always be: is my team able to put more guns on the enemy then they're able to put on ours? If the answer is no, you're doing something wrong and you should change it.

Edited by Gallowglas, 05 November 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i almost never die first, but dieing first happens to all of us at some point,
im an avrage player, no expert but some times others do make stupid mistakes,

the catch, well heres my story,
was in a LCT, doing what a scout should running off and tag/narking,
well i got too far ahead and thought i was safe, can could circle around the enemy,
ended up getting legged from a AC20 AS7, after, all i could do was watch him end me,
so i was,... STUPID,... i made a bad call and i payed for it, now on to other players,

i start spectating my team, and i knotice they are making some mistakes,
so i start advising my thoughts, im being constructive, why when they are making mistakes?

when you are looking over some ones mech you can notice things they cant, but why?
because they are still playing, when your playing your focus is on lots of things,
staying alive, looking for enemies, try not to get flanked, checking ammo, ect.
being dead i can notice some mistakes they make,
but they have bigger problems, thats the truth,

the best solution to this,
try to think before acting and dont die,
Ghosts cant help win a game,

and haunting the living on your team will only cause you to lose,
you'd be much much better haunting the enemy team,

Edit- Spelling

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 05 November 2014 - 10:18 AM.

[Nostromodamus]

mogs01gt, on 05 November 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

LMAO another match. I said care for saddle base cap, opponents go for cap(and succeed) because half the team goes through tunnel. The mechs that were covering the saddle were wiped out..


Its almost always the teams fault.

People seem hardwired to go tunnel on that map, even though on Assault it almost always comes down to a saddle rush.

[mogs01gt]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

People seem hardwired to go tunnel on that map, even though on Assault it almost always comes down to a saddle rush.

Which is why the lance that got crushed as the right to ***** in all/team chat.

[Choppah]

Yes, while the "first to die, first to complain" is now a well-worn stereotype, sometimes it is for legitimate reasons. Like real life, victory is greatly dependent on what is done before and during the beginning of a battle. I can't count the number of times I have moved forward to secure a valuable location first and suddenly my team sees the enemy and scampers away as if they brought no weapons. I tell them to come back, but I inevitably die defending the strategic location hoping for someone to understand why this area is important. After death, I tell them "enjoy your loss", full well knowing my score was garbage since I was only alive for a few minutes. Hopefully, some will actually evaluate their actions in that moment and make a more strategically sound decision next time the rest of the team derps. Or they can just retort with the usual "you died first, you sux" as they are slowly destroyed.

Players need to understand, being around your team, in a deathball or whatever, does nothing to guarantee victory unless they are in an area to exploit their numbers. Does being in a deathball help when one team is charging up the hill on Alpine when the other team got their first? Or capturing Theta on Mordor when the enemy is peeking and shooting from every entrance? No, it does not, but it may mitigate how bad the loss is. Unless there is some superhero on the team or the enemy makes a terrible decision at that point, the battle is lost.

Skill, and therefore winning, has less to do with reflexes and game knowledge than does a foundational knowledge of war and battlefield strategies. All the min-maxing and macros in the world won’t help a team win when they are fighting more enemies than they can handle due to their collective poor decisions. So when you see someone raging in chat about how this team was bad, evaluate the current situation before commenting. He may actually be right (whether he knows it or not) and you have very limited time to make a decision to change things for the better.

Edited by Choppah, 05 November 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Josef Koba]

I just let 'em vent. They're frustrated. They died and have to watch others play (unless they DC and jump in another machine). Sometimes they have legitimate complaints about how the team has played up to that point. Other times they don't. I'd much rather a dead guy provide for me an extra set of eyes - which obviously can't happen in real life but we might as well take advantage of it in MWO. When I die (sometimes even first!) I almost always observe and attempt to call out targets or point out areas of enemy activity. I will also admit to venting. I'm only (a dead mechwarrior) human.

[nitra]

CelticCross, on 05 November 2014 - 05:24 AM, said:

Why is it always the "best" players that seem to die first?

Obviously, it isn't, but they would like to think that they are. If only it wasn't for the "noob team" they were stuck with, they'd be snuffing out the Clan Invasion by themselves. Or so they believe.

Just got ridiculed by one of these "experts". He was spouting the usual diatribe of how "the team" was crap and was the sole cause of his demise in the first few minutes. I called him on it and he proceeded to talk crap about how my use of cover while my weapons cycled was "cowardly" and that I should "get out and fight instead of hiding", despite me taking on an assault lance by myself and causing 600+ damage. My match score was also almost twice his.

I would find it hilarious if it wasn't so constant. Seems every game the pile of dead guys just starts hurling BS statements about how bad the rest of the team is. Maybe it was a bad matchup. Maybe there were lots of newer players. Maybe stop to think before typing out profanity-laced insults. Maybe take a look in the mirror?

/rant

Well what are we supposed to do ??

I mean really, we engaged the enemy first we know what mechs the enemy team have, what fire power they are packing, and how many lrms they are dropping.

We also know how accurate and or deadly they are along with giving the rest of the hill humpers the general idea of where the enemy is located along with the added bonus of a lance most likely having their backs turned to our team for prime flanking opportunities .

But alas, always the team sat back behind some rock "cycling weapons" waiting to take another pot shot while those of us dying for our team are thoroughly and massively assaulted from all 5 directions .

so of course we are going to offer some advice, especially when we had two lances tied up in a dog fight and no one took advantage of the situation . even more infuriating is when we say for example "hey you know the hunch back is almost cored just needs one of those miracle pot shots to finish him off." and yet the hill humper keeps lobbing projectiles at the fire starter running around.

so while you find it irritating to here from us dead guys ,, we find it just as irritating when we cycle through the remaining team to see 6 - 9 mechs sitting behind cover doing absolutely nothing (yeah i know cycling their weapons) even more so when the players are turned away from the engagement and holding firmly at some uncrossable imaginary red line on the battlefield ??!?! (strategically holding ground)

so trust me when i say the feeling is mutual.

Edited by nitra, 05 November 2014 - 10:48 AM.

[SteelKiller]

The only time I every really get frustrated at my team is when I move to rescue a teammate (constantly watching those team %) only to have him abandon me and leave me to die by his attackers. I try to refrain from saying anything though. No point in harshing everyone's mellow and making myself look like an ass. But then I also refuse to turn on All chat for similar reasons.

This was funny...had a game the other night. Really good game actually. Came down to me versus a 3L that kept trying to keep my attention away from their base (only to run away when I finally got his armor down) and a lightly damaged SCR-D who was sitting in their base. A couple of dead guys kept telling me to go for the base, and I said it was a lost cause. I went for it anyway, took out a couple of turrets, put some damage on the SCR, but of course died. I said something like "yeah, didn't think so". The reply was that I needed to learn how to play.

[Jman5]

Usually when I get tempted to say something nasty in chat, I'm just as angry with myself as I am with certain teammates. For example, sometimes there will be an obvious course of action the team should take to gain an advantage. Something that 99% of the time your team will do in this situation. You have seen and done it so many times that you tunnel vision a little and don't realize that this is one of those rare moments where your team collectively decided to do something completely different. So you get creamed. You want to scream at your team for not being where any half-decent player should be, but you should have been watching the map yourself.

One thing that really makes me want to rage in chat is when I try to take charge, a couple heavies/assaults do their own thing and get themselves killed, then I get blamed for the loss with my "terrible plan". Bunch of cowards who don't say a thing at the start, or when the plan works. However the moment you lose a game they try to divert blame away from their 57 damage and make you take the fall. People like this are why so few people want to offer plans of action in pugs.

[FupDup]

It's true that sometimes people try to place a disproportionate level of blame on their own team instead of their own actions, but at the same time we have to remember that MWO is a team-based game. Each team has 12 robots, and the performance of those 12 robots compared to the enemy 12 robots decides the match. 1 robot making an error does truly impact the flow of the match, but usually it's hard to pin the blame on just 1 specific robot and not examine the other 11.

Edited by FupDup, 05 November 2014 - 10:52 AM.

[Kensaisama]

Monkey Lover, on 05 November 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

peekaboo almost never works. They always flank you and you die. IF you stand in the same place for more then a few minutes the game is over.


Over all being in the front is not "leroy" As im sure most the people around here know as i see them slowing down when walking in a line to allow the other players in front. They have no problems playing peek-a-boo from behind me as cover. These are the players who are rewarded and live the longest.

I cannot begin to tell you how many times I have typed in chat to quit playing peekaboo in a choke point with an entrenched enemy firing line, yet they still do it and get smoked, and the worst part is at least two more players will do the same thing after watching the first guy get wasted doing it.