115 replies to this topic

[NextGame]

Carrioncrows, on 05 November 2014 - 07:53 AM, said:

I can post up the rest of them to show a trend if you like.



It's only like my 3rd game with this variant but it's already proving good.

With clan weapons and the amount of speed it as, this mech is GOOD. Plain and simple.

A worthy addition. More to the point it's FUN. (See Sig)

We can all post screenshots of decent results in bad mechs too. Doesn't mean that the mech is actually any good compared to others that people can field. Especially at the moment when a lot of people are running this underpowered and oversized clan cicada.

Edited by NextGame, 05 November 2014 - 11:35 PM.

[Greenjulius]

NextGame, on 05 November 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

We can all post screenshots of decent results in bad mechs too. Doesn't mean that the mech is actually any good compared to others that people can field. Especially at the moment when a lot of people are running this underpowered and oversized clan cicada.

This is what people don't seem to "get." Any bad mech can have a good game. It's the games over time that matter. If it underperforms overall, it's a bad mech.

The Ice Ferret isn't a good mech. Compare it to a Stormcrow or Timberwolf, and it isn't even half the mech. Even a Summoner or Kitfox makes the IFR look weak. Kitfoxes can carry more weapons and tonnage, and have ECM available.

It compares better to the usefulness of an Adder or Nova, which are without a doubt the worst clan mechs. The Adder is just a bad mech. It has no redeeming qualities. At least the Nova has JJ and decent hardpoint options. The Ice Ferret? Very bad hardpoints, especially on the Prime. It's hitboxes are unfavorable, resulting in lost arms and torsos quickly.

What it does have, are clan weapons and speed. That's it. And it can only carry 9-9.5 tons, make ballistics worthless. So what you've effectively got is an energy or semi-SRM boat, with no ECM.

It can be fun to play, but needs major improvements in regards to the omni pods. An ECM arm or torso would be welcome, or even a right torso that did something.

Edited by Greenjulius, 06 November 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[Xetelian]

Greenjulius, on 06 November 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

This is what people don't seem to "get." Any bad mech can have a good game. It's the games over time that matter. If it underperforms overall, it's a bad mech.

The Ice Ferret isn't a good mech. Compare it to a Stormcrow or Timberwolf, and it isn't even half the mech. Even a Summoner or Kitfox makes the IFR look weak. Kitfoxes can carry more weapons and tonnage, and have ECM available.

It compares better to the usefulness of an Adder or Nova, which are without a doubt the worst clan mechs. The Adder is just a bad mech. It has no redeeming qualities. At least the Nova has JJ and decent hardpoint options. The Ice Ferret? Very bad hardpoints, especially on the Prime. It's hitboxes are unfavorable, resulting in lost arms and torsos quickly.

What it does have, are clan weapons and speed. That's it. And it can only carry 9-9.5 tons, make ballistics worthless. So what you've effectively got is an energy or semi-SRM boat, with no ECM.

It can be fun to play, but needs major improvements in regards to the omni pods. An ECM arm or torso would be welcome, or even a right torso that did something.

I guess I should have been allowed to test it before I bought it or was that what the bonus premium time was for? Maxing it then moving on.

[Duke Nedo]

So far, the ferret fits my style very poorly, I feel much more powerful in the Adder, or the new IS-Adder: Rvn-2x. Much much much more powerful.

I find it OK-ish in a 1v1 vs anything, then you can use your extra armour vs lights and the speed vs everything else, but... as soon as there is more than 1 player on the other team you will be too big (and slow) to dodge effectively, and not have enough armour to chest-tank anything. I don't know, the only build I feel somewhat works is a short/mid range harasser and that sweet spot is really narrow. Too close and a FS/Jenner would be much better, too far away and an Adder or Raven would be much better.

I apologize to the guys that will be carrying me while skilling the ferret.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 06 November 2014 - 12:21 AM.

[STEF_]

Greenjulius, on 06 November 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

This is what people don't seem to "get." Any bad mech can have a good game. It's the games over time that matter. If it underperforms overall, it's a bad mech.

The Ice Ferret isn't a good mech. Compare it to a Stormcrow or Timberwolf, and it isn't even half the mech. Even a Summoner or Kitfox makes the IFR look weak. Kitfoxes can carry more weapons and tonnage, and have ECM available.

It compares better to the usefulness of an Adder or Nova, which are without a doubt the worst clan mechs. The Adder is just a bad mech. It has no redeeming qualities. At least the Nova has JJ and decent hardpoint options. The Ice Ferret? Very bad hardpoints, especially on the Prime. It's hitboxes are unfavorable, resulting in lost arms and torsos quickly.

What it does have, are clan weapons and speed. That's it. And it can only carry 9-9.5 tons, make ballistics worthless. So what you've effectively got is an energy or semi-SRM boat, with no ECM.

It can be fun to play, but needs major improvements in regards to the omni pods. An ECM arm or torso would be welcome, or even a right torso that did something.

So....
Why do I suck with my nova and kit fox and I'm doing very well with my Ferret?
You seems to forget what "feeling a mech" means.

Beyond "mathematical" matters regards hardpoints, no ecm, low ton avaible for weapons, you don't see what speed, torso twist, great acceleration, good piloting this mech can give in the right hands.
I don't lose my arms so fast with it.
Why do I manage to spread dmg all over the ferret, while with nova I cannot do it?
I suck with nova, I do very well with Ferret. So why?

Believe me: acceleration/torso twisting/repositioning are important factors.

On a side note, you really cannot compare a 45 tons mech, with a 70 tons and saying "look at here, more weapon here, so ferret sucks....".

And yea, Stormcrow is better..... with its 10 tons more

[Carrioncrows]

NextGame, on 05 November 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

We can all post screenshots of decent results in bad mechs too. Doesn't mean that the mech is actually any good compared to others that people can field. Especially at the moment when a lot of people are running this underpowered and oversized clan cicada.

Actually that's exactly what it's about.

If you can't manage to have a good game in this mech then obviously this mech isn't for you.

Now I am not a great player but if I can go out and pull these kind of numbers in a decent match then obviously the mech has "Something" going for it. You seem to think this is a every blue moon kind of situation.

It's not.



Actually by the time photobucket came back up from maintainence my KDR has jumped to 3.0

30 kills, 10 deaths. I'm not one to normally care about that kind of thing. But this mech isn't even elited, and is a walking knightmare. There isn't another mech I know of that can swoop in, kill a mech an extract itself with minimal damage. Best part is that it's large enough that people don't bother going for the legs and it can roll damage oh so nicely.

[Tahribator]

I don't have it, but the Ferret seems to be all about persistence. It's fast enough to quickly engage and disengage while being fast enough to be hard to hit. Its anemic weaponry confirms this. If you play it passively and remain largely static, it'll be taken out too fast. If you play it like a light harasser and move non-stop probing the enemy here and there, it'll be much more successful.

It's the exact playstyle of non-snipy Cicadas when I think of this.

Edited by Tahribator, 06 November 2014 - 03:06 AM.

[blacklanner]

I have a question - hopefully not completely off-topic. I notice while piloting IFR, that when I´m flying (falling off some ridge/cliff), my legs tends to get lock in position. I can´t twist/turn them while in the air. No problem with torso twist. Is this a normal thing? Pretty much every mech I pilot is equiped with JJ, where I have no problem leg twisting while jumping, My atlas/battlemaster is on no fly list, so this is literally my first time encountering this problem.

Second question - inverting pitch/yaw controls - is it working? Not for me.

On topic. Even on basic IFR is pretty good. When fully upgraded... I can´t wait. No point trying to compare it to stormcrow or timberwolf, there is no point. Fast hit and run commando with decent armor and excellent maneuverability. Fine IS light hunter, medium/heavy harasser.

Also when i first saw Fenris it thought... OMG that is ugly! But now I think it is actually pretty nice looking.

Edited by blacklanner, 06 November 2014 - 03:42 AM.

[theta123]

I heavily underestimated a Fenris today wich had the standard ER PPC + 2 ER ML loadout. He went behind my back faster then i could torso twist my warhawk and he blasted my rear CT open rather quickly.

[Duke Nedo]

Carrioncrows, on 06 November 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

30 kills, 10 deaths. I'm not one to normally care about that kind of thing. But this mech isn't even elited, and is a walking knightmare. There isn't another mech I know of that can swoop in, kill a mech an extract itself with minimal damage. Best part is that it's large enough that people don't bother going for the legs and it can roll damage oh so nicely.

Don't want so sound like an ass, but could you do that if the opponents were better? I find that it's too big/too slow to dodge when I run it, and I find it rather easy to hit compared to other hit-n-runners when I face it...

I do 10 times better in my Adders even though they are slower when doing peek-a-boo and I do 10 times better in a Raven/Jenner/FS when doing hit-n-runs... and they are all lights!

Perhaps I will get the hang of them when elited, right now they feel like a waste of tonnage in a drop deck. I'd rather bring an Adder or Kitfox and upgrade one of the heavier mechs.

[RustyBolts]

My first impression:

Speed is good enough to run with IS lights and mediums.

Weapons are good enough to run with IS lights and most mediums on the lower end of Tiers, even if there are not a lot of options.

Hitboxes may need some tweaking. This thing is easy to hit. Maybe because it is so large, I dont know. But if you cant hit one, you should not be playing this game. However, it can take some hits since it has good armor, but not a brawler medium.

I think this is a good mech that falls in between the StormCrow and Nova. I think it is almost as good as an ECM Cicada, with the Cicada getting the nod due to ECM and better hard points.

[Jonny Taco]

Under gunned and over sized. Their only saving grace atm is poor hit detection on things moving faster than 100 kph (game bug, joke point).

[Felio]

DONTOR, on 05 November 2014 - 03:35 PM, said:

How is he a liar? Those are all viable, effective builds.

Mathematically impossible with max armor, as he claims.

[Water Bear]

DONTOR, on 05 November 2014 - 07:58 AM, said:

Hahaha, I think what you meant to say is "I will never be good with it". This mech in the right hands is insane.

Given two pilots of exactly equal skill, using builds that have the same range bracket, which wins in a one-on-one: Stormcrow vs. Ice Ferret.

If the IF teakes a ppc, the stormcrow takes way more lasers. If the IF takes srm 12, the crow takes ssrm 30. There's no build the IF takes that the crow doesn't take better, better in the sense that it could wreck the IF in 1-1, and better in the sense that it would do better in a practical match against other mechs.

Edited by Water Bear, 06 November 2014 - 08:37 AM.

[Josef Nader]

I'll say it again, a mech doesn't need to unseat it's T1 Overlord in it's weight class to be viable/fun/worthwhile. The majority of matches played in this game are not serious competition matches, and panning a mech as DoA just because it's not as good as the best-in-slot option is not really fair to the complexities of the game or the skills of individual pilots.

There's nothing wrong with the Ice Ferret. It's a perfectly serviceable mech. A good pilot with lots of practice in an Ice Ferret is gonna do just fine against a good pilot with lots of practice in a Stormcrow, because the differences between chassis aren't nearly as extreme as people make them out to be.

Is that difference enough to sway a serious, comp match? Yes. Is it enough to have a major impact over most group-cue games or PUGs? Not really.

Again, the Ice Ferret is not a Stormcrow, but it provides variety and fun.

Edited by Josef Nader, 06 November 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Greenjulius, on 06 November 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

This is what people don't seem to "get." Any bad mech can have a good game. It's the games over time that matter. If it underperforms overall, it's a bad mech.

The Ice Ferret isn't a good mech. Compare it to a Stormcrow or Timberwolf, and it isn't even half the mech. Even a Summoner or Kitfox makes the IFR look weak. Kitfoxes can carry more weapons and tonnage, and have ECM available.

It compares better to the usefulness of an Adder or Nova, which are without a doubt the worst clan mechs. The Adder is just a bad mech. It has no redeeming qualities. At least the Nova has JJ and decent hardpoint options. The Ice Ferret? Very bad hardpoints, especially on the Prime. It's hitboxes are unfavorable, resulting in lost arms and torsos quickly.

What it does have, are clan weapons and speed. That's it. And it can only carry 9-9.5 tons, make ballistics worthless. So what you've effectively got is an energy or semi-SRM boat, with no ECM.

It can be fun to play, but needs major improvements in regards to the omni pods. An ECM arm or torso would be welcome, or even a right torso that did something.

And yet my Ice Ferret Prime has the highest average earnings of all my clan mechs including my Stormcrow, Direwolf and Timber Wolf. 206K average per match vs my second highest earner, the Stormcrow at 180k per match. That is like 15% higher earnings so how can the Ice Ferret be all that bad.

Also we are playing two different Ice Ferrets it seems. Mine is amazingly tanky. In fact it is one of the most tanky mechs I own. My Ice Ferret's hit boxes are amazing to say the least. As far as firepower, ok it is a little limited compared to much slower 45-50 ton mediums. However, 4 ER MLs are roughly equalivant to 6 IS MLs which is what alot of Jenners and Firestarters run plus they have the added benefit of being able to hit for max damage at 130m longer distance (260m for max damage) plus the module gives it an even larger range advantage (10% of 400m is alot more than 10% of 270m).

Now is it comparable to a Stormcrow? No. However it is hands down better than the Nova. Also it can do virtually anything a Jenner or Firestarter can, at longer ranges and with much more durability. The only advantage those mechs have is JJs but even that doesn't alway save them when an Ice Ferret runs them down. I mean equal speed, equal agility, equal firepower, 33% less armor....yeah most Jenners and Firestarters aren't winning that fight.

Prime(I) - Best performer

3 MPL
1 SRM6
13 DHS

Average earnings with premium = 206k
Top earnings = 350k (358k I think but I am at work and my spreadsheet is at home)

19 matches (18 matches without speed tweak and/or various other basic efficiencies, mech has not unlock all Elites yet)
19 Kills
9 Deaths
2.11 K/D
375 Average Damage per match
1612 Average XP per match

Sorry but that isn't the stats of a bad mech.

[Water Bear]

Josef Nader, on 06 November 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

I'll say it again, a mech doesn't need to unseat it's T1 Overlord in it's weight class to be viable/fun/worthwhile. The majority of matches played in this game are not serious competition matches, and panning a mech as DoA just because it's not as good as the best-in-slot option is not really fair to the complexities of the game or the skills of individual pilots.

There's nothing wrong with the Ice Ferret. It's a perfectly serviceable mech. A good pilot with lots of practice in an Ice Ferret is gonna do just fine against a good pilot with lots of practice in a Stormcrow, because the differences between chassis aren't nearly as extreme as people make them out to be.

Is that difference enough to sway a serious, comp match? Yes. Is it enough to have a major impact over most group-cue games or PUGs? Not really.

Again, the Ice Ferret is not a Stormcrow, but it provides variety and fun.

My reply was aimed at someone whose opinion was too extreme. The Ice Ferret is not "good" in exactly the sense that it is not tier 1. You would agree. That doesn't mean you have to hate the mech. For example, I love Awesomes. And Cicadas.

But would I argue that the Cicada or Awesome is "insane" in the right hands? No. It might be insane when I use it against noob players, sure, but against someone of equal skill in a T1 mech...?

[Water Bear]

What people are trying to say, I think, is that screenshots and personal records are just anecdotal evidence. Just because some people are doing well in an Ice Ferret does not make the Ice Ferret good.

The most basic statistical measure of its goodness would be its success rate averaged over all players in the same range of ELO. If it's average damage among players of equal skill is lower than the average damage of some other mech, call it mech X, then there is a numerical, rational reason to call mech X "better," in exactly the sense that the average player of a certain skill deals better damage with it.

Edited by Water Bear, 06 November 2014 - 10:24 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Water Bear, on 06 November 2014 - 10:24 AM, said:

The most basic statistical measure of its goodness would be its success rate averaged over all players in the same range of ELO. If it's average damage among players of equal skill is lower than the average damage of some other mech, call it mech X, then there is a numerical, rational reason to call mech X "better," in exactly the sense that the average player of a certain skill deals better damage with it.

Except damage isn't the end-all-be-all metric. Winning matches is.

[Kassatsu]

I had fun in it, but I didn't score particularly well, also didn't really feel like I was helping my team all that much outside of chasing down a light while the rest of my team can focus on the brawl.

If only the latter actually happened and we didn't have a lance of dire wolves doing a 180 and getting shot in the back every single match.