179 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Jman5, on 05 November 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

People who play with me, know I have very little patience for players who get "left behind" as the team pushes aggressively. Despite what many people say over and over, 9 times out of 10 players are not left behind. They stay behind either by stopping in their tracks while the rest of the team moves, or by taking round-about paths that make keeping up impossible.

You see this sort of blame-game coming from a lot of assaults particularly direwolves who would like you to believe that they are physically incapable of keeping up with a standard slow-push. I get told I simply don't get it since I play a hunchback, so let's load up the trial dire-wolf and look at a common situation of assault-angst: The River City Skirmish spawn by the Boat.



Spawning there let's see how long it takes to get to the citadel bend at d4 in a direwolf without speedtweak.



About 1 minute +/- 10 seconds in the slowest mech without speed tweak.

Let's look at where you typically see players that spawn by the boat at the 1 minute mark. This is a real world game where our banshee buddy is taking his first shot at the direwolf.



Wow, he's only gone about half the distance we did in our test and he probably has speed tweak too.

As you can see there can be a huge difference in distance covered by just moving a little more efficiently. Also never forget that you are an assault pilot weilding a ridiculous amount of firepower. Sure, I may be able to get a few shots on you, but you've got a 60 damage alpha to answer back as you move. Too often people seem to either stop and shoot, or just straight up die without firing a shot.

So next time you load up your big-bad-direwolf and you find yourself in a tricky spawn, don't just give up and say it's impossible. Think about how you can get to where you need to be faster.

And stop blaming your team for leaving you behind.

what about the following: your team does not have ecm, and 30seconds of your journey is an adventure in the open rain consisting of a few hundred missiles.
Same can happen to you when you spawn in the very southern point of caustic.

The decision to go there over the open water is extremely risky, becazse you don't know what the dice gods decided to place into the opponent team makign this exposed time a luck based death of alive experience.
Also his reroute he took is porbably clever, because hes further away from the opponent at this route, making LRM's probably being out of range. MWO is not a A to B speed race its an get safe from A to B challange.

generally in that situation the other lances should try to gather at the assaults and brawl their way clockwise, which is harder than counterclockwise, but probabaly less luck based.

Edited by Lily from animove, 06 November 2014 - 05:31 AM.

[NextGame]

if you are in a fat, you have no excuse not to get moving right away

[Joseph Mallan]

Jman5, on 05 November 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

People who play with me, know I have very little patience for players who get "left behind" as the team pushes aggressively. Despite what many people say over and over, 9 times out of 10 players are not left behind. They stay behind either by stopping in their tracks while the rest of the team moves, or by taking round-about paths that make keeping up impossible.

You see this sort of blame-game coming from a lot of assaults particularly direwolves who would like you to believe that they are physically incapable of keeping up with a standard slow-push. I get told I simply don't get it since I play a hunchback, so let's load up the trial dire-wolf and look at a common situation of assault-angst: The River City Skirmish spawn by the Boat.



Spawning there let's see how long it takes to get to the citadel bend at d4 in a direwolf without speedtweak.



About 1 minute +/- 10 seconds in the slowest mech without speed tweak.

Let's look at where you typically see players that spawn by the boat at the 1 minute mark. This is a real world game where our banshee buddy is taking his first shot at the direwolf.



Wow, he's only gone about half the distance we did in our test and he probably has speed tweak too.

As you can see there can be a huge difference in distance covered by just moving a little more efficiently. Also never forget that you are an assault pilot weilding a ridiculous amount of firepower. Sure, I may be able to get a few shots on you, but you've got a 60 damage alpha to answer back as you move. Too often people seem to either stop and shoot, or just straight up die without firing a shot.

So next time you load up your big-bad-direwolf and you find yourself in a tricky spawn, don't just give up and say it's impossible. Think about how you can get to where you need to be faster.

And stop blaming your team for leaving you behind.

I will do no such thing. in my standard engine Atlas I am as fast as any Dire Wolf. I am constantly left behind with my throttle maxed from step one after the countdown.

I don't often disagree with you 5, but on this point I must.

[Totenxcx]

Wintersdark, on 06 November 2014 - 04:00 AM, said:

I'm a direwolf pilot, much of the time, and when not still usually sub 80kph . Never ever faster than 100.

I'm no "Speedy Gonzales". Hence my point: if you're getting left behind, you're doing it wrong (except Alpine charlie spawn and stupid circle racing matches)

And my point is that if your team just leaves you behind then that means they think they can win without you and so take responsibility for the outcome of the match.

[Kensaisama]

Jman5, on 05 November 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

People who play with me, know I have very little patience for players who get "left behind" as the team pushes aggressively. Despite what many people say over and over, 9 times out of 10 players are not left behind. They stay behind either by stopping in their tracks while the rest of the team moves, or by taking round-about paths that make keeping up impossible.

You see this sort of blame-game coming from a lot of assaults particularly direwolves who would like you to believe that they are physically incapable of keeping up with a standard slow-push. I get told I simply don't get it since I play a hunchback, so let's load up the trial dire-wolf and look at a common situation of assault-angst: The River City Skirmish spawn by the Boat.



Spawning there let's see how long it takes to get to the citadel bend at d4 in a direwolf without speedtweak.



About 1 minute +/- 10 seconds in the slowest mech without speed tweak.

Let's look at where you typically see players that spawn by the boat at the 1 minute mark. This is a real world game where our banshee buddy is taking his first shot at the direwolf.



Wow, he's only gone about half the distance we did in our test and he probably has speed tweak too.

As you can see there can be a huge difference in distance covered by just moving a little more efficiently. Also never forget that you are an assault pilot weilding a ridiculous amount of firepower. Sure, I may be able to get a few shots on you, but you've got a 60 damage alpha to answer back as you move. Too often people seem to either stop and shoot, or just straight up die without firing a shot.

So next time you load up your big-bad-direwolf and you find yourself in a tricky spawn, don't just give up and say it's impossible. Think about how you can get to where you need to be faster.

And stop blaming your team for leaving you behind.

Proof that assault mechs are still to slow and should be removed from the game

[Cerlin]

Great post OP. I agree that Direwolves need to be aggressive and keep that W pressed so they can get where they need to be.

They need to ***** less too. I have no pitty.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cerlin, on 06 November 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

Great post OP. I agree that Direwolves need to be aggressive and keep that W pressed so they can get where they need to be.

They need to ***** less too. I have no pitty.

no pity required, I have none for those who run off at 70+ KpK only to run into the enemy Wall of Battle without us.

[Hillslam]

Direwolf got left behind

[Joseph Mallan]

Now give the bear a few weapons of mass destruction and you'll have a perfect meme!

[Glythe]

Jman5, on 05 November 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

Going 10 kph faster you're only losing 2.8 meters every second in the direwolf. In a game of big stompy robots that's a hair's breath. All things being equal, in 42 seconds of both of you sprinting, you've only lost 117 meters on your 63 kph buddy. That's still in IS small laser's optimal range.

Funny story but in the beta the smart people had like 200 STD engines in the Atlas. Why? Because it left so many tons for weapons that you could feel like you were fighting a hunchback when fighting another Atlas. But damn were you slow

There are only 3 reasons that the Atlas is now using a bigger than 300 engine.

1) Double heat sink nerf remains at 1.4 forever helping to ruin large mechs
2) Faster torso alignment for ballistic weapons
3) The Atlas was replaced as the 100 ton big bad monster a long time ago. It is no longer scary and actually has to be afraid of the DW. Therefore it needs to make sure it is faster (even if only slightly).

[Tiger Dad]

I play various mechs randomly. I like using my KitFoxes (all 3 variants have the ECM arm), my Spider 5D, not so much yet. I also have my Dires and I know what it's like to lumber to the blob while getting fired at, knowing if I try to stop and return fire even for an instant, it leaves open a chance I'm going to get lurmed to death or just ppc'ed or gaussed to death (now that a lot of nimbler Mediums sport them). And if I'm not dead, I'm horribly shotup with many of my weapons (which are usually in the arms) gone and therefore useless to my team.) So I make a beeline to the blob while getting peppered, tagged, narced, lurmed, and just plain spit at and I know I just have to suck it up cause it's the mech I chose and the luck of the draw. But if I ever play my lights with ecms, the first thing I do is find the heavy lance and make a run to them. Cause I know, even if I can't really fight very well (I'm not a great pilot) and may just get killed, the ECM cover may give them a fighting chance against the lurms. But it's my choice. Other times the team may think it's feasible to use the assaults as targets and shoot the people shooting the assaults. Or feel, that killing their assault and giving up an assault is good enough.
Hey, I can't read peoples minds when I pug (and I pug exclusively because of time.) But I try to do my best when I can and help when I can (and apologies when that sometimes means my shot, will kill a steal when someone is in a brawl with another person). I don't mean to steal kills, I mean to help in the kill.
I guess the point is, you can't complain if you choose what you choose. You can't complain that other people don't do what you want. You can suggest that PGI always spawn the heavies/assault between the mediums/lights because the other team can run back to the blob faster. But that may lead to another slew of issues.
You will get killed (when or where it doesn't matter). You as an assault are a target. Just get someone in the next match.

[Cion]

riverslq, on 05 November 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

wow
epeen much?

its a problem with both spawn points in the game, and pug tactics.
direwhales as you call it (probably also use the term libtards too) are stuck at a certain speed by pgi.
can't be changed. if it was an atlas you were referring to maybe, it can be upgraded, but nope.
nope, nope.
nope nope
nope
nope

Yeah some spawn points are less than desirable.

Pgi does not force anyone to go sub 50 kph, that's a choice by the player. Yes, I get that clan engines cannot be changed, I do play the game. Yet no one forces people to ride any mech.

What I am pointing out is that people should not complain on a PUG match that it's the teams fault that the enemy took advantage of the weak aspect of their mech choice. People should live up to their choices.

That being said I'm not a douche, I try to protect assaults. I cover them, go with them, fire at who's firing at them, etc. Yet I'll never blame the team for not focusing fire on my target when I'm on my Light mech AND I'll never blame the team for the times I found myself out of position in my Assault and was too slow to reposition and catch up to the team.

But we can agree to disagree man, in the end we all play the same game.

[Tristan Winter]

Great OP.

Would like again.

[STEF_]

Monkey Lover, on 05 November 2014 - 05:29 PM, said:

I wonder what the other team was doing. In the first 30 seconds they should have cored you back out and been raining lrms on you....

And that's esactly what I love to do.
Finding and shooting at the fatties left behind by teamates is a must in River City

But agree with the thread: a lot of whale are doing nothing but staying fresh until match is good for them.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 06 November 2014 - 08:33 AM.

[Creovex]

@OP

I feel you pain regarding the slowness... HOWEVER... what says your team can't support the slowest player? (ie. ecm cover, AMS support, walking WITH them rather then rushing off, etc.)

I can't count the number of times I ran back for a lone Direwolf because it may be a weapons platform, but without support, it is a dead mech... HINT: It's a perfect reason "Lance in Formation" reward was put in... to support your teammates!

[HellAvenger]

lol, yes you can get left behind if your team start playing nascar with the other team.

[Zolaz]

If you run off and leave your team behind then maybe you shouldnt complain about it?

[Deathlike]

There are two things that need to be considered, and it has less to do with Dire Wolves, but most certainly affects them...

1) When you spawn, move in a "useful direction" to your group for regrouping. Don't try to overthink your path to your team as the fastest route is a "straight line" to them. Yes, I know... basic math and geometry.

2) You can do all of the stuff you need to do (shoot weapons into thin air, assign weapon groups) AFTER you are moving, NOT BEFORE. You burn precious time you could have spent doing while you move anyways. Priorities people, priorities.

These things easily shave off 5-15 seconds of time spent that would get your mech killed if/when rushed by the opfor aggressively.

The people that do these simple things often times never have these issues.

Edited by Deathlike, 06 November 2014 - 12:33 PM.

[Jman5]

Mudhutwarrior, on 06 November 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

I hear over and over "its a team game"

except when I read these posts.

If its a team game support tail end charlie and bring the whole team into the fight.

In my view most losses come from the tryhards full speed on the carousel leaving the highest dps boats to fend while they feed their ego.

We have no way of picking our drops. Start thinking globally instead of your K/D.

You're absolutely right that it is a team game. However there are two sides to being a team player. The first is supporting your team's efforts. The second, is not being dead weight or a burden to the team. If 3 out of 4 assaults can move from any spawn point to safety without issue, I think it's unfair to call the rest of the team selfish for not holding the hand of the 1/4 assaults who refuse to learn.

It's a two-way street and too many assault players refuse to acknowledge they have a responsibility to the team to watch the map instead of becoming a glorified turret.

I know that a lot of people are going to misinterpret what I say as some sort of elitist e-peen argument, but it's not my intention. What I'm trying to say is that every player has their roles in the game. For faster mechs their role involves using their speed to attack the enemy. I find it insulting when I'm told by assault players that my role is secondary to theirs. That being a team player means sacrificing my role to maximize their own. I've got a task of my own to do and being the babysitter to the minority of assaults who can't be arsed to move efficiently and watch the map, is not my role.

How many minutes should I give for a Direwolf to move 500 meters? 1 minute? 2 minutes? 15 minutes? Should I never, ever move forward unless a direwolf decides the grass looks greener over there? Should I always be looking up at the direwolf like a loyal dog just waiting for him to tell me to go fetch?

The point I'm trying to make is that I understand Direwolves are slow and no one is expecting you to move 150 kph. However, I am expecting them to move 48-53 kph on an efficient path. When players refuse to do that, they're the ones who are not being a team player.

[Rebas Kradd]

Escorting assault mechs is part of role warfare. *watches minds blow in every direction*