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Community Warfare Update - Nov 5 - Feedback


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#41 Finlos

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 03:21 PM

Gaining and losing points by fighting for or against a faction seems fairly straightforward, but will we automatically lose LP after we leave the house/clan.

By that I mean if I fight for [Faction A] and earn 'X' loyalty points there and then I leave do those points automatically decline or can I join [Faction B] and, by careful selection of contracts, avoid fighting [Faction A] in the future and maintain my standing with [A]?

#42 White Bear 84

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 03:34 PM

1. Maps: The update sounds great - particularly having some choice and not being completely linear, but still the game mode still seems farily linear - will all planetary battles revolve around 'taking gates' or will we see variation in the maps such as fortified airfields (think mechcommander!), objectives such as securing fuel tanks (e.g. fuel tanks might be vital for planetary defenses or for the attacking force etc etc), bridges, tactical locations etc...

2. IS Map.. ..im with Paul on this one, if it is really good and PGI are confident that its not going to flicker on zoom like the old one and if it does look significantly better then keep it a surprise! Why not!

3. Loyalty points - Will these degrade when you switch factions and fight against a previously aligned faction?

#43 Threat Doc

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 03:36 PM

Time was a thread like this would already be fifty-plus pages deep.

View PostCimarb, on 06 November 2014 - 08:44 AM, said:

Not listening to you does not mean they are not listening. There is an important distinction there.
Brandon, who pissed in your Wheaties, man? Oh, and for the record, it's not a matter of listening to me, it's a matter of understanding the importance of factions in this game universe, regardless of the game type related to this universe being played.

#44 Dirk Le Daring

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 04:05 PM

I can understand the perceived need for forcing players into a faction.....lack of numbers. But you really should do it differently.

A merc is a merc, contracts are fine, that's what we do. We do NOT align with anyone. I am seriously considering never doing CW. I expect to be a lone wolf working FOR a house/clan, NEVER a member of said faction.

Are there so few players that you must force this upon us ????

Not a happy camper, as I think this issue has been conveniently ignored, yet of concern to a fair number of players.

Please consider an alternative.

#45 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 05:40 PM

View PostDirk Le Daring, on 06 November 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

?..Are there so few players that you must force this upon us ????...


I see it more as a matter of coding complexity. With all gamers tagged as a primary House or Clan their is only one tier of "Affiliation" for MWO to consider when ascribing or degrading the commodity of "Loyalty Points."

If it were #OutOfTheGates permitted for each gamer to elect to have two tiers of "Affiliation" (first Lone Wolf or Merc Corps and then subsequently a Primary House or Clan) then the accounting for "Loyalty Point" gains and losses will be that much more difficult to track for the tens/hundreds of thousands of MWO gamers / potential CW participants.

This was one reason to favor "Seasons." Let it roll with the simplified one-tier per gamer now,thus we all have a. House or Clan affiliation now. Then in a subsequent Season as the coding matures through successive approximation toward something robust enough to permit a reintroduction of Lone Wolves and Merc Corps.


We really do need to be aware that MWO must be permitted to grow and move toward a more complete and authentic BattleTech experience. IMHO additional patience here will payoff in the near term with greater CW stability and pace the way toward greater CW diversity down the road.

#46 MadLibrarian

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 05:57 PM

View PostDirk Le Daring, on 06 November 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

A merc is a merc, contracts are fine, that's what we do. We do NOT align with anyone.
Please consider an alternative.


I agree, mercs should be a primary option for all players. If nothing else but as an interesting default. I'm not so sure the way they seem to be planning will be bad. Nothing really seems truly set in stone yet. Let's hope they can anticipate any potential flaws well in advance of release.

Alternatively, they could merge the concept of mercs with the solo queue, giving the solo matches meaning as short term merc contracts. The matches could also have value with CW by dynamically generating them based on CW actions. (e.g. Planet was taken over by a faction which then gives rise to several other missions to root out loyalists of the previous owner and secure resources. Missions being a simple set number of each game type in various iterations.) A pretty simple dynamic that gives rationale for the large number of otherwise meaningless missions taking place daily. Might even wind up giving players some semblance of control over which mech to take on certain missions in certain maps.

Edited by MadLibrarian, 06 November 2014 - 06:00 PM.


#47 Cimarb

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 06:06 PM

View PostKay Wolf, on 06 November 2014 - 03:36 PM, said:

Brandon, who pissed in your Wheaties, man? Oh, and for the record, it's not a matter of listening to me, it's a matter of understanding the importance of factions in this game universe, regardless of the game type related to this universe being played.

The dog, man. Wondered why it tasted so bad!...

My point is that a lot of people, myself and you included, think that our way is the only way, and despite some very questionable choices, PGI has made a very amazing game despite our outrage over this and that. That is why I try to be as constructive as possible, even when I am telling them they are boneheads. They do know what they are doing, and just because they are not doing it MY way (see how I used myself as the example so you do not get offended by it again?), does not mean that they are not listening to "us" as a collective community.

#48 AnimeFreak40K

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 07:03 PM

I have a pretty good idea of how Loyalty Points are going to work in regards to Phoenix Mechs and the Bronze Medallions...but let's see if I got it:

- If I (or my unit) is aligned with the Free Rasalhague Republic, I get a 10% bonus if I pilot any of my Phoenix (P) mechs during any of the CW missions.
- If I have an FRR Medallion and it is in any mech other than a Phoenix (P) mech, I receive a 2.5% bonus during any of the CW missions.
- If that Medallion is also in a Phoenix Mech, I get a 12.5% bonus.

Some questions:
- I know someone asked this before, but what happens if I have a Kurita Medalion hanging in my mech, but my unit is Rasalhague?
- Will the Clans be getting any sort of cool thing like the Phoenix Project at any point? I think it's a little unfair that this is something that IS players are getting?
- Will there be more releases that are similar to the Phoenix Project? I understand that the Phoenix Mechs are gone for good, but will there be additional mechs that will have the 10% Loyalty Point boost?
- I know this was also asked; the current bonus medalions are 'Bronze'. Will there be additional tiers of these in the future, such as Gold or Silver?

As far as how the Loyalty Points work in regards to the differing facitons for ranks, stuff that's available, etc., I find it makes complete sense in regards to earning and losing points as well as how all this ties to the various (though possibly temporary) skins, titles and such. With the exception of having to start from scratch on everything if your Loyalty Points for a given faciton reach 0, it actually sems very similar to how the Faction Points worked in Ghild Wars: Factions.

Overall, I do like what Im seeing/hearing so far and I look forward to hearing and seeing more.

#49 xhrit

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:59 PM

View PostKirkland Langue, on 06 November 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

It sounds to me like the intentionally-left-in means of abusing the system will be:

Player wants freedom to play any faction - so they create 8 alt accounts, and each alt account creates a merc group and joins one of the factions. Then the player just jumps from one merc to the next depending upon which faction they want to fight for.


This only works if you never lose LP. From what i understand if you join IS and attack clans, your clan LP goes down and your IS loyalty goes up. If you then join clans and attack IS, you will loose all your IS LP.

#50 Threat Doc

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 10:44 PM

View PostCimarb, on 06 November 2014 - 06:06 PM, said:

My point is that a lot of people, myself and you included, think that our way is the only way, and despite some very questionable choices, PGI has made a very amazing game despite our outrage over this and that. That is why I try to be as constructive as possible, even when I am telling them they are boneheads. They do know what they are doing, and just because they are not doing it MY way (see how I used myself as the example so you do not get offended by it again?), does not mean that they are not listening to "us" as a collective community.
Are you feeling an abundance of faction care in this game?

I know I'm not. Look, we may not be on the road to being forced to join a major House or Clan faction, but I'm not feeling like mercenary's are getting a lot of attention, either. My understanding is that we will remain in our various merc units, by name, with our friends and our ranks and our coffers, but we are going to be FORCED to align ourselves with a House faction, or a Clan faction -if I've read it correctly- for between one month at a time and permanently. We will not play as our individual units, but rather as part and parcel of whatever House or Clan we sign with.

PGI needs to take factions seriously, and I personally feel they most definitely are not. I am not the only one who feels this way. Now, I don't know if there are other plans PGI has to grow us into what many other released games have at release, to attempt to make this aspect of the game better than those other many released games, or not; I would like to believe it, but I'm afraid I just can't at this point.

My friend, Prussian, and I were talking about this very thing, this evening, and what I know I want to see, whether it was devised and posted by IGP or PGI or a joint venture, or not -regardless of where it originated- is what was posted in the first five blogs. I don't have to have an exact tabletop translation, and I've NEVER asked for one. I don't recall EVER demanding that PGI do things EXACTLY the way I want them done. You and I both push and poke and prod this bear called PGI, to force them to think and be better, and you, I, and many others on these forums have had good effects on them, and on this game, and those things have been heard.

Now, however, it's time to be heard about the importance of factions... we were TOLD -not promised, but told- that certain things were coming down the pipe that would allow us to run our units, in the peripheral non-simulator game, in certain ways. Yet, as from the beginning with Dev Blog 0, and all these past three years, what we were TOLD could and would be done, has either disappeared entirely, has been placed so far on the back-burner as to become an unrealistic expectation, or has been made so weak in its implementation as to be laughable, that it's becoming harder and harder to cheerlead for this game.

'Mech quirks? I love 'em, though the dynamic of the game, at least for me, has not changed all that much... in fact, my gaming experience is very much worse than it was just six months ago. New and forthcoming maps, mission types, invasion, 'Mechs, etc., that's all very nice, but it's also very wearing. I have said it multiple times before, that the combat simulator for this game is the closest representation -except for ECM and Light 'Mechs- to the board game, in my opinion, that I could ever have asked for. It's the broader game, however, that I am more interested in participating in. At least, it was... and may be, again.

I don't want things my way, Cimarb, and I never really have... but I want what I paid for with Founder's money, and the little bit of cash I've been able to afford to put into this game since, and what I paid for was what was introduced in the opening Dev Blogs, by the developers, themselves, and I just don't think I'm ever going to see it. The 'Mech simulator we have is a work of art, and this is the ONLY game I'll play PvP in... LIKE, EVER... but it's not enough to keep me around, anymore, and I'm tiring of not seeing what we were told was coming.

You're not going to listen to me, anyway... why write so much, anymore?

#51 Dirk Le Daring

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:28 AM

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 06 November 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

I see it more as a matter of coding complexity.


My arse ! How is it complex to have a simple tag link...Lone wolf x is working for house <insert name here> ???

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 06 November 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

If it were #OutOfTheGates permitted for each gamer to elect to have two tiers of &quot;Affiliation&quot; (first Lone Wolf or Merc Corps and then subsequently a Primary House or Clan) then the accounting for &quot;Loyalty Point&quot; gains and losses will be that much more difficult to track for the tens/hundreds of thousands of MWO gamers / potential CW participants.


There is NO two tier affiliation....It is a Merc working FOR a house, not BEING a house MEMBER !!! Being a LONE WOLF !!!!!!!! There are contracts, that is all, NO AFFILIATION NEEDED !!!!!!

Seasons be damned, they mean nothing.


View PostPrussian Havoc, on 06 November 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

We really do need to be aware that MWO must be permitted to grow and move toward a more complete and authentic BattleTech experience. IMHO additional patience here will payoff in the near term with greater CW stability and pace the way toward greater CW diversity down the road.


Grow and move forward is all good and dandy, but is it like knockdown ??????? Never return ??? No more MERCENARIES ?? No, Keep Lone Wolves and Merc Corps, just have a tag saying "Working for <insert faction here>"

I have mentioned this concern earlier, and not seen anywhere response to this question, and I am not the only one. Makes me think Mercenaries are a ****** faction to be seen no more.............



#52 HadleyHope

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:59 AM

Phoenix Loyalty Medals. It seems that the make up of community warfare has changed since the time that we first had to pick the faction medals. Would it be possible with the faction reset to also allow us to re-choose the Phoenix Loyalty Medals?

When the medals first appeared our unit was Davion, after all the updates and clarifications we are now mechs, and I have 3 Davion medals!

#53 DocBach

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 02:34 AM

Paul, any thoughts on quirks for chassis providing certain faction points for players using their factions iconic mechs for the resistance mechs or future packs like Phoenix package mechs got? Iike a Liao player getting an fp bonus for using a cyclops or a Davion getting a bonus for dropping in an enforcer?

Edited by DocBach, 07 November 2014 - 02:52 AM.


#54 Cimarb

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:15 AM

View PostKay Wolf, on 06 November 2014 - 10:44 PM, said:

Are you feeling an abundance of faction care in this game?

I know I'm not.
Spoiler


You're not going to listen to me, anyway... why write so much, anymore?

For the record, I read that whole thing. (Just put spoiler tags to shorten the response size)

If you think you are not getting a lot of faction love as an IS unit, imagine how us Clan players feel having to drop in "lances"... or how we have to buy a "Man-o-War Package"... or use cbills as money/rewards... or many other Spheroid terms that have nothing to do with us. Do you think we like the thought of being/using mercenaries? Do you think we like the thought of contracts?

Despite all of that, I am feeling a lot of faction love, because I am piloting Clan mechs, in a unit named Clan Ghost Bear International, and will soon even have an official Clan Ghost Bear camo to use on my mechs! Even better, I will soon have a faction tab that allows me to FINALLY start fighting to reclaim Terra from you dezgra filth! Even better than that, I know that economics are eventually going to be in the game, and that will be when we have a fully realized, immersive Faction Warfare system.

This is a work in progress, and while I may not be happy about some of the steps on the way to the end goal, at least we are moving forward at a brisk pace finally! I will say something when I disagree, with either PGI or anyone on the forums, but only because I want to continue guiding this amazing WIP that we have all been working so hard to make a reality (well, you know what I mean...).

#55 Valten

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:35 AM

Will units gain LP or faction status, or it it individual only?

Will there be Mercenary LP? Cause there really should be.

Will there be a limit to the number of people who can attain a certain rank in a house or could the entire community become the Grand Marshal of the Armies which, per cannon, is limited to like six people?

Can we get an idea of the thresholds and rewards for LP or are you not that far along yet?

#56 Gallowglas

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 08:52 AM

I'm excited that canon merc units like Wolf's Dragoons will have its own LP system, but please, please, please consider that a pretty good segment of players are going to want to have such affiliation be more than a transient affair. Take DWAR and BWC for example. We're fully intending to actively cooperate in CW as Dragoon units. It would be awesome if in-game mechanics supported these sorts of affiliations. Perhaps you could, as long as someone is affiliated with a canon unit, implement a system wherein there's an extra chat tab that allows cross-unit chat and a system wherein there's some sort of coordination across affiliated units with regard to faction assignment.

These sorts of considerations will add a huge amount of depth to gameplay for a modest amount of development consideration since they effectively build on what you're already doing.

#57 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 09:16 AM

View PostDirk Le Daring, on 07 November 2014 - 12:28 AM, said:

...but is it like knockdown ??????? Never return ??? No more MERCENARIES ?? N...


IMHO all PGI is looking to implement for us is the next point (a CW point, this time around) on the continuum of development for MWO. And I am just glad to be here to enjoy it.

I would advise not to panic nor to cry Havoc, thus further loosening the Forum Dogs of Disenchantment.

So very many of us have our own "Idealized version of MWO" in mind and lament to all who will listen just how very much separation exists between what PGI bring to us today and what we believe "We Were Promised" or in our wisdom we believe "How it Ought To Be."

We lose sight of the fact that PGI is NOT here to realize for us all our hopes and dreams for a gaming incarnation of BattleTech Lore / Canon. IMHO PGI is in the business of:

1. Staying in Business (Paying Employees, keeping the lights on, maintaining servers, etc.)

2. Herding enough of us Gamers (us "Cats") further down the MWO continuum of development while achieving "acceptable" monetization that will enable number 1 above.


"Herding Cats" (http://youtu.be/Pk7yqlTMvp8) is in all likelihood quite an apt comparison. Just judging from even a quick perusal of these forums our individual "Idealized versions of MWO" conflict on just about every level. From this forum, PGI's efforts to divine MWO Gamer expectations and determine just where we are willing to accept/tolerate monetization are prime examples of the nightmarish balancing acts and feats of diplomacy that PGI must craft on a daily basis and expressed in all its forum threads and posts, tweets and devlogs.




I supremely enjoy MWO. It is an incredible realization of simulated BattleTech Combat. At each point along PGI's continuum of development we are moved incrementally forward toward a more complete and satisfying Gaming experience with increasing trappings from the BattleTech universe. I can be patient as PGI carefully crafts a monetized/viable future for MWO... can you?

Edited by Prussian Havoc, 07 November 2014 - 09:25 AM.


#58 Threat Doc

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 10:49 AM

View PostCimarb, on 07 November 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

For the record, I read that whole thing. (Just put spoiler tags to shorten the response size)
Thank you for honoring me in that; I'm grateful.

Quote

If you think you are not getting a lot of faction love as an IS unit, imagine how us Clan players feel having to drop in "lances"... or how we have to buy a "Man-o-War Package"... or use cbills as money/rewards... or many other Spheroid terms that have nothing to do with us. Do you think we like the thought of being/using mercenaries? Do you think we like the thought of contracts?
Believe it or not, and despite my overt hatred of the Clans, since 1992, I actually do feel your pain, and hope for some advancement toward the better. Again, however, Paul has expressed a few times, now, that what we're getting for Phase 2 is a shadow of what PGI are looking to implement in Phase 3. So, I'm willing to wait and see on that part, at least. I'm looking for more robust contracts -hopefully true to the Mercs Handbooks- and more unit management tools that were supposed to make their way into Phase 2.

Quote

Despite all of that, I am feeling a lot of faction love, because I am piloting Clan mechs, in a unit named Clan Ghost Bear International, and will soon even have an official Clan Ghost Bear camo to use on my mechs! Even better, I will soon have a faction tab that allows me to FINALLY start fighting to reclaim Terra from you dezgra filth! Even better than that, I know that economics are eventually going to be in the game, and that will be when we have a fully realized, immersive Faction Warfare system.

This is a work in progress, and while I may not be happy about some of the steps on the way to the end goal, at least we are moving forward at a brisk pace finally! I will say something when I disagree, with either PGI or anyone on the forums, but only because I want to continue guiding this amazing WIP that we have all been working so hard to make a reality (well, you know what I mean...).
Hmmm, of course...

#59 Cimarb

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 12:16 PM

View PostValten, on 07 November 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

Will there be a limit to the number of people who can attain a certain rank in a house or could the entire community become the Grand Marshal of the Armies which, per cannon, is limited to like six people?

Very good question, and while I assume they will not limit it, I think it would be great to have the top couple/few tiers of rank only be accessible by the people with the top loyalty amounts. Say, every month, the person with the highest loyalty number gets the "top tier" rank, the next highest five get the "first runner up tier" rank, and everyone else that is at the highest tier of loyalty will get the next rank down from that. That would give a very good reason to maintain loyalty in the long run, as well as allow it to change hands periodically without having it change every time "the lead" was changed each day/hour.

View PostPrussian Havoc, on 07 November 2014 - 09:16 AM, said:

Spoiler


I supremely enjoy MWO. It is an incredible realization of simulated BattleTech Combat. At each point along PGI's continuum of development we are moved incrementally forward toward a more complete and satisfying Gaming experience with increasing trappings from the BattleTech universe. I can be patient as PGI carefully crafts a monetized/viable future for MWO... can you?

Totally agree with all of that. This is just the second phase. They are implementing things at a drastically increased pace lately (read: since IGP left), so let us all try to focus on guiding that path in as constructive a manner as possible!

#60 OznerpaG

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 06:09 PM

alright, looking forward to some planet smashing action!


question: my brother is convinced there are 11 sectors to each planet, which means there's only 11 battles per each planet. i think it's unlimited battles per planet and zones exchange hands back and forth until the 24 hours are up, and whomever has the most zones wins/keeps the planet. clarification?



also i have a suggestion for RnR - why does it have to have anything to do with CB? want to really push players and get different mechs out on the battlefield? how about FREE repairs - but only every hour on the real hour (or every 30min, or at the end of every drop you make afterwards so if you keep dropping you get faster repairs, but i'l stick to 'the hour on the hour' for my example).

what i suggest is if your mech gets damaged or destroyed in a CW drop, you will have to wait for it to get repaired before you can drop in another CW match again. every hour on the hour every mech that got damaged in a CW drop will be repaired by having 50% added to their damage% - so if your mech got destroyed at 5:26pm with 32% remaining it would have 50% added to it at 6pm which would bring it up to 82%. if your mech didn't get repaired at 6pm then it won't be fully repaired until 7pm when you get another 50% added to bring it up to 100% again.

finished a CW match alive in your YLW but with just 49% remaining? oooooh - so close, but it'l take 2 repair cycles to bring it back up to 100% so you can drop with it again. or maybe if your mech survives the battle at no matter what damage % it gets automatically repaired and available next match - repair might only apply to mechs destroyed in battle (or that you ejected from)


that's the simple solution - maybe you can drop in a mech that's at least 80% repaired! at 80% your engine is automatically repaired so you could drop with the mech damaged, but still functional. all your armour/internals are repaired by 50% and any crits you may have gotten have a 50-50 chance of getting repaired every repair cycle, unless the mech reaches 100% which means EVERYTHING is repaired - you have a shiny new mech again

lost the AC20 on your YLW when you finished the match at 49%? well maybe when the mech got repaired to 99% it's damaged internals and armour are 99% full, but the AC20 lost it's 50-50 roll and that didn't get repaired. are you going to go out with an AC20-less YLW? your choice, but i doubt it...


and to clarify, if you were to take that YLW out for some PUG drops while it's 'CW damaged', you would drop with it 100% operational (but you may not be able to change it's loadout in mechlab until it reached 100% repaired)

Edited by JagdFlanker, 07 November 2014 - 06:12 PM.






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