70 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

WVAnonymous, on 06 November 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:

Meta Whale != Whale != Meta *****

Avoid the Meta ***** Whale?

I'd rather just ... kill the Whale!

Does that make me ... a Killer Whale?

[RG Notch]

Krivvan, on 06 November 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

Why are you declaring the builds they play to be unfun? The best games are when both teams are trying their damned hardest to win, and that involves playing the best builds. Games where both sides are headless chickens running around with LRM+SRM+SL Jenners are gimmicks that are fun for a game or two before becoming unfun and boring.

And we love it when the meta changes.

Umm when the pop tart meta was around many of THEM said it wasn't fun but they did it to win. THEY were saying they didn't like it but would rather win than risk playing a non meta build. Plus I played other games competitively and saw similar sentiments. People didn't particularly like the way they were forced to play by the meta, but they wanted to win more than try anything different. I get some folks love to play at the cutting edge, but some of them were begging for a change because while they wanted to win, they weren't have a lot of fun to get that win.

[Davers]

Sometimes I play Civ V and try to stick with all the appropriate builds and technologies for each culture rather than adapting to the current situation. Can't have George Washington build Stonehenge, can we? If I do poorly I can't complain though.

People who play to win will usually come up with better builds than people who are 'role playing'. Join a RP league or play Stock Mech Mondays if you want to avoid 'meta'. But be warned, those leagues have a meta too.

[Shredhead]

Assmodeus, on 06 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

I don't like the idea that those types of players are influencing major changes. Their way is not the fun way to play a GAME.

I like that you don't like us to influence this game. Strangely enough it was us and our influence that has brought this game to the build variety we can now enjoy, even in comp play.

Techorse, on 06 November 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

This right here is pretty much the point of my post. Aren't games supposed to be about fun?

Yes. Gladly it's not up to you to decide what's fun.

Alistair Winter, on 06 November 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

I feel like I've had the solution to this for a long time. Separate the competitive players from the other players. Create Solaris mode with a weekly and monthly leaderboard. Hand out rewards, skins and cockpit items for weekly and monthly winners. Let the competitive players enjoy the e-sports aspect of MWO, and make it so enjoyable that very few competitive players will want to switch to Community Warfare or normal quick matches, dropping in their meta-overlord-builds to kill people in normal, fun builds.

Embrace the variety in the playerbase, don't shoehorn everyone into the same experience. Yes, this means fewer people in each queue, initially. But it may also make the game more fun for many people, which means more people in the queue, in the long run.

Sadly we don't have enough players for this to happen.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that you guys don't want to have to compete with all us tryhards, and I really don't enjoy clubbing seals, that doesn't give me anything.
But for f***** sake stop judging us!
We were the ones rallying for diversity, build variety and better balance! If it were for you we'd still have overpowered clan tech and PPC/AC jump snipe meta all day because you can't even lay the finger on what's exactly wrong with the game's mechanics!
And that said, Dire Whale isn't even half as bad as you make it out to be.

[Squally160]

Assmodeus, on 06 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

I don't like the idea that those types of players are influencing major changes. Their way is not the fun way to play a GAME.

So youre way of playing is the only way to play amirite?

[RG Notch]

Shredhead, on 06 November 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

But for f***** sake stop judging us!

Exactly, they are supposed to judge the rest of you, I mean this post isn't at all judging non competitive players...oh wait. Do you want to be the pot or the kettle? The rest of you boobs should be happy these people did anything for you mouth breathers. I for one welcome our high Elo overlords.

[Carnelian]

Oh, it's that time of year again:

http://www.sirlin.ne...ducingthe-scrub

You play the game or you just play with the game. Any "cheap" strategies are either working as intended or should be adressed by the developers. As long as no bugs or cheats are involved, anything else is fair game and it is bad sportsmanship to resort to namecalling when your own little private set of rules are broken.

[Kain Demos]

RG Notch, on 06 November 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Umm when the pop tart meta was around many of THEM said it wasn't fun but they did it to win. THEY were saying they didn't like it but would rather win than risk playing a non meta build. Plus I played other games competitively and saw similar sentiments. People didn't particularly like the way they were forced to play by the meta, but they wanted to win more than try anything different. I get some folks love to play at the cutting edge, but some of them were begging for a change because while they wanted to win, they weren't have a lot of fun to get that win.

Winning is important to me as well but I can't help but pity any loser that would actually run a build that is considered "OP" by some people online even though they didn't get enjoyment from it simply to win.

They are apparently forgetting that people play games to have fun.

[MalodorousMonkey]

This is basic game theory stuff. People will do what they need to in order to win the game. You can't exactly fault them for following the easiest path to victory. If anything, you should blame the devs for not making sure the game is balanced. I personally don't have too many problems with Dire Snipers, but I can see the issue they can pose.

[Deimir]

Seems like every few months this article becomes relevant around here again...

[Krivvan]

Davers, on 06 November 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Sometimes I play Civ V and try to stick with all the appropriate builds and technologies for each culture rather than adapting to the current situation. Can't have George Washington build Stonehenge, can we? If I do poorly I can't complain though.

It's exactly this. It's not like we are under the impression that no one should be allowed to run builds they want to for whatever reason, but when they start complaining that the game isn't structured to help their narrowly defined specific builds do well, it gets a little ridiculous. I play stupid builds sometimes (which is something some of the players I play with can't understand where I get the fun out of that), but I don't complain when I do badly in them.

[Desolator]

Assmodeus, on 06 November 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

I don't like the idea that those types of players are influencing major changes. Their way is not the fun way to play a GAME.

What you mean to say is that isn't a fun way for YOU to play a game.

I like winning, winning to me is fun and you play to win the game.


I however think that the Dual PPC/ Dual Guass DW gets way over hyped.
Is it a good built if played well, of course it is, but so are many other mechs and builds.

I personally eat DWs with that build for lunch. Does it hurt getting shot by them sure it does, but that doesn't make them overpowered.

[Krivvan]

RG Notch, on 06 November 2014 - 02:51 PM, said:

Umm when the pop tart meta was around many of THEM said it wasn't fun but they did it to win. THEY were saying they didn't like it but would rather win than risk playing a non meta build. Plus I played other games competitively and saw similar sentiments. People didn't particularly like the way they were forced to play by the meta, but they wanted to win more than try anything different. I get some folks love to play at the cutting edge, but some of them were begging for a change because while they wanted to win, they weren't have a lot of fun to get that win.

And like I said, they derive the fun from finding and using the best ways to win. Except when that way is boring, it becomes less fun. It's not fun to them to purposefully gimp yourselves arbitrarily. It's like running a marathon while wearing a cast for fun because it's too easy to win without one on.

On a side note, there is a call from a lot of us for jump sniping to return to an extent to offer a counter to clan tech. Following the PGI motif of Clans having superior equipment and mechs, but being less able to poke, maneuver, snipe, and deliver pinpoint damage.

Playing a meta Dire (which isn't really 2 Gauss 2 PPC btw, that's not the best thing you could put on a Dire) is also more fun than jump sniping because the Dire carries with it weaknesses as well.

Edited by Krivvan, 06 November 2014 - 03:13 PM.

[Shredhead]

RG Notch, on 06 November 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Exactly, they are supposed to judge the rest of you, I mean this post isn't at all judging non competitive players...oh wait. Do you want to be the pot or the kettle? The rest of you boobs should be happy these people did anything for you mouth breathers. I for one welcome our high Elo overlords.

It's not judging. Of course some of the mid Elo non-comp players understand how the game works, but most don't, and that's absolutely ok. They just don't dedicate as much time to the game and just want to play casually. But please take a look at where we were 6 months ago, and where we stand now. Balance and build variety has improved enormously!
Would you just please trust that we are as interested in balance as any other player?
That we have a vested interest in getting more players to play this game?

[Nemesis Duck]

I just don't want the game ruined by some limited play styles, that's all. There's so much more to this game when you're not resticted to single play style.

But sling your crap talk, I don't care. That and your limited ability to play says enough.

EDIT: And it already has been. Jumpsniping, gauss charge, ppc speed, etc etc etc

Edited by Assmodeus, 06 November 2014 - 03:15 PM.

[Jacon Ceronia]

The world was built on the backs of tryhards. Thx.

[Kain Demos]

MalodorousMonkey, on 06 November 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

This is basic game theory stuff. People will do what they need to in order to win the game. You can't exactly fault them for following the easiest path to victory. If anything, you should blame the devs for not making sure the game is balanced. I personally don't have too many problems with Dire Snipers, but I can see the issue they can pose.

People complaining about "game balance" have been irritating games for years now. Certain strategies that work will inevitably be popularized until the point where they become so common many people lose to them and instead of adapting cry to devs for help. It is an endless, irritating cycle. Blizzard games are the WORST for this they change **** so often a viable strategy one year may not even exist the next.

[Alistair Winter]

Shredhead, on 06 November 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind that you guys don't want to have to compete with all us tryhards, and I really don't enjoy clubbing seals, that doesn't give me anything.
But for f***** sake stop judging us!
We were the ones rallying for diversity, build variety and better balance! If it were for you we'd still have overpowered clan tech and PPC/AC jump snipe meta all day because you can't even lay the finger on what's exactly wrong with the game's mechanics!
And that said, Dire Whale isn't even half as bad as you make it out to be.

You make a huge assumption about what kind of player I am, then go on to make a little speech about "us versus you" and ask me not to judge you.

I don't even know where to begin, friend.

[Mystere]

Kain Thul, on 06 November 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

People complaining about "game balance" have been irritating games for years now. Certain strategies that work will inevitably be popularized until the point where they become so common many people lose to them and instead of adapting cry to devs for help. It is an endless, irritating cycle. Blizzard games are the WORST for this they change **** so often a viable strategy one year may not even exist the next.

And those now gone poptarts were a case in point. Countless crybabies endlessley complained about them. But I myself liked having them around. I liked shooting clay pigeons ... or died trying.

All those crybabies ruined my fun.

[RG Notch]

Shredhead, on 06 November 2014 - 03:13 PM, said:

It's not judging. Of course some of the mid Elo non-comp players understand how the game works, but most don't, and that's absolutely ok. They just don't dedicate as much time to the game and just want to play casually. But please take a look at where we were 6 months ago, and where we stand now. Balance and build variety has improved enormously!
Would you just please trust that we are as interested in balance as any other player?
That we have a vested interest in getting more players to play this game?

I don't think that had anything to do with competitive players. I don't think competitive players nor the other end of the scale the TT purists care about anything other than their vision of the game and I don't blame them. I just don't trust them to do what's right for anyone outside their scene. I think a lot of folks give lip service on the forums to others but really couldn't care less. So believe what you will and I know I will.