138 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

Methinks you didn't even read my posts, because I've clearly stated that the only reason to mount a 20 is if you have just 1 missile slot, and that slot has 20 tubes. And even there, I'd rather mount a 15.

And I would as well, cause the LRM15 has a slightly faster recycle rate than a 20 and will, over time, throw slightly more ordinance than the larger rack.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 November 2014 - 04:53 AM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Glythe, on 07 November 2014 - 12:33 PM, said:

I cant wait for the Streak LRMs

[The Boz]

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2014 - 04:59 AM, said:

And the 3x lrm 5 gets absolutely shredded by ams and you should be comparing it to lrm15s anyway since no one should ever use 20s for anything except selling immediately for cbills to buy 15s and this was not a recent change, 20s have always been garbage, this is not a new thing.

3xLRM5 launched in salvo produces a salvo of 15 missiles, three of which get eaten up by AMS. Just like the LRM15 produces a salvo of 15 missiles, three of which get eaten up by AMS. Only the 3xLRM5 salvo is MUCH more dense than the LRM15 salvo. What are you talking about?

[Joseph Mallan]

Zerberus, on 08 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

Just as you are, so where exactly does that leave us?

Sitting in front of a computer.

[Zerberus]

/ thread

[QuantumButler]

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

3xLRM5 launched in salvo produces a salvo of 15 missiles, three of which get eaten up by AMS. Just like the LRM15 produces a salvo of 15 missiles, three of which get eaten up by AMS. Only the 3xLRM5 salvo is MUCH more dense than the LRM15 salvo. What are you talking about?

I'm pretty sure the ams kills 2 missiles per launcher irrespective of if you chainfire or group fire them.

[The Boz]

You're quite wrong on that one.

[QuantumButler]

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

You're quite wrong on that one.

Maybe it's just how 99% of the people using lrm5s are stupid and chainfire them then.

[The Boz]

I chainfire LRM5s on my AS7-S when in a brawl, because it induces cockpit shake. I still salvo them on standoff range.

[Zerberus]

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure the ams kills 2 missiles per launcher irrespective of if you chainfire or group fire them.

A much as I wouldn`t have expected to agree with Boz, this is in fact false.

Think of it this way: Ams does (iirc) approx 2 DPS to any missiles in range (proritizing those locked onto you). LRMs have IIRC 1 life. SO, if the LRMs need 2 seconds from outer range to impact, you will destroy 4 of them, regardless of whether there were 5 incoming or 300 in that particular cloud /salvo/wave /volley. with ripplefiring a lá Clans, that number goes up a bit, because the volley is "strung out", giving teh AMS more time overall to engage that particular volley.

That`s the primary logic behind larger (or mutliple simultaneously discharged smaller) launchers in general, "overwhelming" the AMS thereby reducing it`s effectiveness, at the cost of spread and reload time in teh case of larger launchers, or at the cost of heat and hardpoint /damage efficiency on the smaller ones.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 November 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[QuantumButler]

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:33 AM, said:

I chainfire LRM5s on my AS7-S when in a brawl, because it induces cockpit shake. I still salvo them on standoff range.

>chainfire lrms in brawling range
>lrms on an Atlas ever
>lrm5s on an assault robot

[The Boz]

SRMs produce too much heat to use comfortably alongside an AC20 and medium lasers. Also, LRMs provide much-needed reach to poke before I get into brawling range, or tag assists that I can't get to in time. In short, if you can't see the advantages of a long-range weapon on a brawler, you got bigger problems.

[Joseph Mallan]

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

SRMs produce too much heat to use comfortably alongside an AC20 and medium lasers. Also, LRMs provide much-needed reach to poke before I get into brawling range, or tag assists that I can't get to in time. In short, if you can't see the advantages of a long-range weapon on a brawler, you got bigger problems.

I may have to disagree with this logic. a single SRM6 produces 4 heat for a possible 12.9 damage that seems like a good damage to heat ratio to me. Medium lasers are the bad heat choice in my calculations.

[QuantumButler]

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:45 AM, said:

SRMs produce too much heat to use comfortably alongside an AC20 and medium lasers. Also, LRMs provide much-needed reach to poke before I get into brawling range, or tag assists that I can't get to in time. In short, if you can't see the advantages of a long-range weapon on a brawler, you got bigger problems.

The problem is you now don't have enough close range punch, so your 100ton endgame avatar is bad at plinking at long range, and once you close to brawling range you have what, 4mls and an AC20? Your 100ton slow avatar of death is theneasily outbrawled by 50 ton Hunchbacks who can manuver far better than you and pack the same if not more firepower due to insane AC20 quirks.

Congrats, you turned a short range brawling god of death into a robot mediocre at all ranges.

Also rare as it is for me to agree with him, but:

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

I may have to disagree with this logic. a single SRM6 produces 4 heat for a possible 12.9 damage that seems like a good damage to heat ratio to me. Medium lasers are the bad heat choice in my calculations.

Is right here, you do not use your mls in actual brawls, you use your srms and ac20 only, medlas is for plinking at harassing light robots and for when your main ammo bins are empty, or if you need that extra edge to finish someone off who is cherry red, or for plinking guys at 400ish meters range where using tyour limited ac20 bullets would be a waste.

If you want a long range 100 ton robot, you use a dire whale, just direct fire in general you go with a Banshee, if you want assault lrmboat, the 8-R or any stalker is far superior, the Atlas is best at tanking with huge arms and close range SRM+AC20 punches, all of your guns are very low mounted so firing at range exposes most of your mech.

Edited by QuantumButler, 08 November 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[The Boz]

They also focus worse, have a shorter range, and you still have no power beyond 400 meters.

[The Boz]

4xSRM4 + 4xML + AC20 is a really nice alpha, yeah, but you can't sustain it in combat due to heat.

[Joseph Mallan]

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

The problem is you now don't have enough close range punch, so your 100ton endgame avatar is bad at plinking at long range, and once you close to brawling range you have what, 4mls and an AC20? Your 100ton slow avatar of death is theneasily outbrawled by 50 ton Hunchbacks who can manuver far better than you and pack the same if not more firepower due to insane AC20 quirks.

Congrats, you turned a short range brawling god of death into a robot mediocre at all ranges.

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

They also focus worse, have a shorter range, and you still have no power beyond 400 meters.

Both true statements. And definitely a point where personal preference comes into play.

The Boz, on 08 November 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

4xSRM4 + 4xML + AC20 is a really nice alpha, yeah, but you can't sustain it in combat due to heat.

But you don't NEED to sustain it in combat. !-2 Alphas and your enemy often goes limping to seek a less powerful enemy to brawl with. Allowing me time to cool off.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 08 November 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Joseph Mallan, on 08 November 2014 - 06:01 AM, said:

Both true statements. And definitely a point where personal preference comes into play.


But you don't NEED to sustain it in combat. !-2 Alphas and your enemy often goes limping to seek a less powerful enemy to brawl with. Allowing me time to cool off.

This is also true, all you need to do is get off 2-3 alphas, and any enemy is either crippled or dead, then you show them your massive hitbox arms while you cool down, and hope your teammates actually stuck with you instead 6 of them running off chasing an Ice Weasel .

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

QuantumButler, on 08 November 2014 - 05:38 AM, said:

>lrm5s on an assault robot

A.) this is mechwarrior not robotwarrior

B.) The only worth a **** build Ive seen on a Warhawk (which by the way is an assault) is LRM 70.

oh wait FIVES. I thought it said LRMs at all lol

I like all tens on the new atlas S. Laugh all you want tho Ive been killing ppl with it just fine

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 08 November 2014 - 06:24 AM.

[QuantumButler]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 08 November 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

A.) this is mechwarrior not robotwarrior

B.) The only worth a **** build Ive seen on a Warhawk (which by the way is an assault) is LRM 70.

oh wait FIVES. I thought it said LRMs at all lol

I'll call them robots, Gundams, or Veritechs if I want to.

But yeah, 5s.