37 replies to this topic

[Gattsus]

I've been reading about mmo's gameplay, game design [1,2,3] amongst other stuff and I was wondering if in Community Warfare will roleplaying be allowed. By roleplaying I mean, spying, betrayal, counterspying, etc.....

I'll try to explain myself. In the pug queue it is supposed that we are part of a team, therefore we all contribute to the success of our team. In this context team killers are frowned upon as they break gameplay. I have personally reported several infractors over the time.

In the case of Community Warfare, it would make it more interesting if we have a different set of gameplay rules were everything is allowed, and by everything I mean: a spy playing for Marik, grabs a Davion's contract and start attacking team mates them if we they drop to contest a planet. In short, this would be similar to how EVE plays and could represent better the novels/books.

What do you think about this?



[1] https://www.youtube....TL1BoipG41OmfyA
[2] https://www.youtube....er/ExtraCreditz
[3] https://www.youtube....r/Rooksandkings

Edited by Gattsus, 08 November 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[gregsolidus]

Team killing doesn't represent anything better and role playing is low on the priority list but still there.

Edited by gregsolidus, 08 November 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[Samurai Lightning]

Teamkilling isn't fun. No, I don't want it in CW.

[pyrocomp]

All the spying/betrayal and all in books was almost always in palaces/camps, but not on the battlefield (arguably, I recall only two such occasions, but I cannot say I read all written sources). This kind of things might be implemented on scenario level with some chances to have on certain occasion to find that your 3rd lance is actually also enemy and you are outnumbered (but guess a reaction) or to see some zone on the planet to change hands without fight, but there is no players fun if players at current level of planned implementation are out of equation.
So no team killings and no battlefield betrayers, I think.

[CocoaJin]

Please no. There is no natural deterent to provide some inherent balance to such behavior. There would be no requirement for any significant investment in time or resources to establish and maintain such an asset vs the permanent loss of that asset once discovered. You could effectively just spam a "spy" with the click of a "join battle" button.

The lack of a potent risk vs reward mechanic for spying would make it excessively and realistically widespread, it would be woefully and horribly griefable for no purpose at all but malicious sh*ts and giggles...all to the detriment of game experience.

[Gattsus]

CocoaJin, on 08 November 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Please no. There is no natural deterent to provide some inherent balance to such behavior. There would be no requirement for any significant investment in time or resources to establish and maintain such an asset vs the permanent loss of that asset once discovered. You could effectively just spam a "spy" with the click of a "join battle" button.

The lack of a potent risk vs reward mechanic for spying would make it excessively and realistically widespread, it would be woefully and horribly griefable for no purpose at all but malicious sh*ts and giggles...all to the detriment of game experience.

In Eve there is none but creating content that's not in the original rules of the game. Basically emergent gameplay.

[gregsolidus]

I think this guy is a goon.

[pyrocomp]

Gattsus, on 08 November 2014 - 09:55 AM, said:

In Eve there is none but creating content that's not in the original rules of the game. Basically emergent gameplay.

In EVE there is much more than just 15 minutes combat matches. So no.

[pyrocomp]

gregsolidus, on 08 November 2014 - 10:06 AM, said:

I think this guy is a goon.

No, his idea has some sence and logic. But not in current game state. If and only if there will be decisions where to mount an attack, if there will be troops transfer time lag (some balance of forces will be required) which will ban some units and companies from participating in attack/defence... Then there will extremely well live spies, betrayers and so on. And this will be roleplaying completle legimate and above rules (in coding/implementing sence).

PS: and some LP and rewards distribution made by community itself, not by PGI or any other publisher/game keeper.

Edited by pyrocomp, 08 November 2014 - 10:31 AM.

[Tezcatli]

pyrocomp, on 08 November 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

In EVE there is much more than just 15 minutes combat matches. So no.

Yeah that game is more involved. If we had other mechanics that persisted outside of combat. It might be different. But we don't. And even if we did. It would be pretty limited.

[pyrocomp]

Tezcatli, on 08 November 2014 - 10:31 AM, said:

Yeah that game is more involved. If we had other mechanics that persisted outside of combat. It might be different. But we don't. And even if we did. It would be pretty limited.

No, even now there is a way to add that. Limited, yes, but still. Consider anounced LPs and that there can be some faction ruling counsil based on highest LPs. Just allow most loyal and active commanders/players to vote where next assault will be and in what order. Some kind of campaing planing. There immediatly will be fear of spies and spies present. And some sence to care for your LPs.

Edited by pyrocomp, 08 November 2014 - 10:34 AM.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Really? Teamkilling incorporated into the game mode? If that isnt about the dumbest thing ive ever heard..........Its annoying enough when its not part of the game....

Can you imagine what it would do to the Pug queue? OMFG......since its already multi faction there, it would turn the playerbase into everyone vs everyone...........Oh dear god no........just no.........my head hurts thinking about how you coulda thought it was a good idea.......

Spying, in that maybe you get to know what mechs the enemy has at the start or something, maybe better radar....but promoted TKing? Hell naw.

[Tezcatli]

pyrocomp, on 08 November 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

No, even now there is a way to add that. Limited, yes, but still. Consider anounced LPs and that there can be some faction ruling counsil based on highest LPs. Just allow most loyal and active commanders/players to vote where next assault will be and in what order. Some kind of campaing planing. There immediatly will be fear of spies and spies present. And some sence to care for your LPs.

I really don't think they want to limit the scope of CW in that way. There's not a lot of strategic level from what we've heard. It's mostly see who can get the most tokens or whatever.

[gregsolidus]

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Really? Teamkilling incorporated into the game mode? If that isnt about the dumbest thing ive ever heard..........Its annoying enough when its not part of the game....

Can you imagine what it would do to the Pug queue? OMFG......since its already multi faction there, it would turn the playerbase into everyone vs everyone...........Oh dear god no........just no.........my head hurts thinking about how you coulda thought it was a good idea.......

Spying, in that maybe you get to know what mechs the enemy has at the start or something, maybe better radar....but promoted TKing? Hell naw.

But..but EVE...

Edited by gregsolidus, 08 November 2014 - 10:40 AM.

[pyrocomp]

gregsolidus, on 08 November 2014 - 10:39 AM, said:

But..but EVE...

You know, write down all you have ingame in EVE on the left side of a paper list (in microscript) and 15 minutes match on the right side of MWO, then compare and tell us your conclusions.

Tezcatli, on 08 November 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

I really don't think they want to limit the scope of CW in that way. There's not a lot of strategic level from what we've heard. It's mostly see who can get the most tokens or whatever.

I don't know where it all will end.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Gattsus, on 08 November 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

I've been reading about mmo's gameplay, game design [1,2,3] amongst other stuff and I was wondering if in Community Warfare will roleplaying be allowed. By roleplaying I mean, spying, betrayal, counterspying, etc.....

I'll try to explain myself. In the pug queue it is supposed that we are part of a team, therefore we all contribute to the success of our team. In this context team killers are frowned upon as they break gameplay. I have personally reported several infractors over the time.

In the case of Community Warfare, it would make it more interesting if we have a different set of gameplay rules were everything is allowed, and by everything I mean: a spy playing for Marik, grabs a Davion's contract and start attacking team mates them if we they drop to contest a planet. In short, this would be similar to how EVE plays and could represent better the novels/books.

What do you think about this?



[1] https://www.youtube....TL1BoipG41OmfyA
[2] https://www.youtube....er/ExtraCreditz
[3] https://www.youtube....r/Rooksandkings

In short, they'd have to implement a system that permanently banned an individual from re-joining a faction after they turned out to be a spy, saboteur, etc. Kurita's notorious for what they do to traitors and the Clans simply execute Amaris wannabes.

At any rate, this would effectively kill off the whole "roleplaying" spy bit as well as bleed over into situations where your average Joe who didn't know better, inadvertently got himself locked out of a faction. Bottom line is, it's a can of worms.

Leave that stuff to MW Leagues where they'll have a better mechanic to deal with it and the units involved are more likely to roleplay it out. It doesn't belong in MWO as a "game" mechanic.

[Gattsus]

One of the thing that attracted me to MWO is how though/mature/hardcore the audience for this game was. Since CW is targeted to cater this small niche, what I suggested it's a way to make it real, a la EVE. Having said this, the idea of having the "freedom to do stuff", it only matter if the community it's willing to take that step forward. If not, there's point in suggesting/implementing it, since well... the game is for the community.

LordKnightFandragon, on 08 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Really? Teamkilling incorporated into the game mode? If that isnt about the dumbest thing ive ever heard..........Its annoying enough when its not part of the game....

Can you imagine what it would do to the Pug queue? OMFG......since its already multi faction there, it would turn the playerbase into everyone vs everyone...........Oh dear god no........just no.........my head hurts thinking about how you coulda thought it was a good idea.......

Spying, in that maybe you get to know what mechs the enemy has at the start or something, maybe better radar....but promoted TKing? Hell naw.

Maybe you should read mate. I don't think you paid any attention to the links I posted. Have a look at them, they might help you to open your mind.

I don't think that TKilling in PUG would serve any purpose. TKilling in a context, it helps immersion, which has been a rallying banner of the "community and one of the reason we want CW. Please correct me if am I wrong. (Regarding immersion)

Edited by Gattsus, 08 November 2014 - 10:53 AM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Gattsus, on 08 November 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

One of the thing that attracted me to MWO is how though/mature/hardcore the audience for this game was. Since CW is targeted to cater this small niche, what I suggested it's a way to make it real, a la EVE. Having said this, the idea of having the "freedom to do stuff", it only matter if the community it's willing to take that step forward. If not, there's point in suggesting/implementing it, since well... the game is for the community.

EVE is nothing more than blob warfare and PvP Carebaring against people who cannot/will not fight back through suicide ganking. Most EVE roleplaying revolves around roleplaying to the devs on why some potential bug or exploit is creating gameplay experience. Lately that hasn't been working out so well for them with the recent patches with CCP nixing awoxing, increasing wardec prices, adding jump fatigue and so on. The mad scrambling has been hilarious.

[Gattsus]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 08 November 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

In short, they'd have to implement a system that permanently banned an individual from re-joining a faction after they turned out to be a spy, saboteur, etc. Kurita's notorious for what they do to traitors and the Clans simply execute Amaris wannabes.

At any rate, this would effectively kill off the whole "roleplaying" spy bit as well as bleed over into situations where your average Joe who didn't know better, inadvertently got himself locked out of a faction. Bottom line is, it's a can of worms.

Leave that stuff to MW Leagues where they'll have a better mechanic to deal with it and the units involved are more likely to roleplay it out. It doesn't belong in MWO as a "game" mechanic.

Having a gameplay mechanic for this would be even better.

[gregsolidus]

Gattsus, on 08 November 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

I don't think that TKilling in PUG would serve any purpose. TKilling in a context, it helps immersion, which has been a rallying banner of the "community and one of the reason we want CW. Please correct me if am I wrong. (Regarding immersion)

You are. The call for CW comes from a thirst for meaning, a need for victories to matter beyond mere C Bills so you can buy better mechs to get more C Bills. No one asked for CW just to shoot team mates in the back for teh emurzons.

Edited by gregsolidus, 08 November 2014 - 10:59 AM.