51 replies to this topic

[Eboli]

Honestly, leave SSRMs as they are and learn to aim with SRMs.

In the past SSRMs had a terrible tendency to home in on mech CTs as well as causing some pretty terrible splash damage. Remember those days of the Raven 3L's with SSRMs and wonky hit boxes.

The last thing we want to see is SSRM's being spammed again and this would surely help drive away even the most dedicated light pilot.

Multi SSRM Stormcrows are dangerous enough as they are.

Honestly, learn to aim.

Cheers!
Eboli

[El Bandito]

Ultimatum X, on 09 November 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm fine with that as the concept, but SSRM 4s and 6s have other balancing mechanisms.

• They tend to weigh more
  
• They have slower RoF (5s for SSRM 4, 6s for SSRM 6)
  
• They have a lock on time
  
• They are affected by ECM

On top of all of that, the damage is spread all over.



So there is a middle ground between all of those negative drawbacks and being a "lower skill" weapon*.


Either the damage spread needs to be tightened or some of those drawbacks should be scaled down (particularly lock on time and RoF).


*I also find this a bit of a misnomer, SRMs aren't exactly high skill weapons.

They are just short ranged, shotguns. Unless your target is really fast, it's pretty difficult to miss with SRMs.

We're not comparing PPC shots at 600m vs. LRMs here in terms of "skill".

By that logic, lasers are the most noob-friendly no-skill weapon of all. Light weight, instant fire, instant hit.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 November 2014 - 05:52 PM.

[TwentyOne]

Brody319, on 09 November 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

chain fire improves hit reg for srms and ssrms

This

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 09 November 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

By that logic, lasers are the most noob-friendly no-skill weapon of all. Light weight, instant fire, instant hit.

Lasers are pretty noob-friendly.

Not nearly as noob-friendly as LRMs which are probably the basement level, but certainly require less skill for aiming than projectiles like ACs, Gauss and PPCs.

[El Bandito]

Eboli, on 09 November 2014 - 05:12 PM, said:

Honestly, leave SSRMs as they are and learn to aim with SRMs.

In the past SSRMs had a terrible tendency to home in on mech CTs as well as causing some pretty terrible splash damage. Remember those days of the Raven 3L's with SSRMs and wonky hit boxes.

The last thing we want to see is SSRM's being spammed again and this would surely help drive away even the most dedicated light pilot.

Multi SSRM Stormcrows are dangerous enough as they are.

Honestly, learn to aim.

Cheers!
Eboli

So you wish to leave a weapon system in the dustbin instead of, dunno, making it better and more skill based? If PGI had implemented the MW4 SSRM mechanic, it couda been all so sweet.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 November 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Khobai]

Clan SRMs and SSRMs seem fine

But IS SRMs and SSRMs need their damage increased back upto 2.5 per missile.

Unless they do more damage, whats the justification for them weighing twice as much?

Edited by Khobai, 09 November 2014 - 06:18 PM.

[Spheroid]

IS streaks need to be returned to 2.5 damage ASAP.

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 09 November 2014 - 06:18 PM, said:

Clan SRMs and SSRMs seem fine

But IS SRMs and SSRMs need their damage increased back upto 2.5 per missile.

Unless they do more damage, whats the justification for them weighing twice as much?

Cause Clan mechs are sooooo restricted in pod space department, blah blah, whine whine--you know the rest.
Oh, and IS SSRM2 flies mere 20ms faster than Clan SSRM2, at the cost of 33% range. It is very clear that Clan SSRM benefits much better from CAP than IS SSRM from BAP, cause both CAP and CSSRM have the same range of 360, while IS SSRM has the range of 270.

Edited by El Bandito, 09 November 2014 - 06:23 PM.

[kosmos1214]

Mystere, on 09 November 2014 - 04:25 PM, said:

The top change I want for SSRMs, and missiles in general, is the removal of that "magic force field" that protects cockpits from missiles. Let mechs die from head shots and have the players deal with the psychological consequences.

The second change I want for SSRMs is the removal of the random nature of what parts they hit. Make them hit the area around the body part I am aiming for.



Then reduce their damage accordingly.

there is no magic force field protecting the cockpit from misses iv seen srms headshot and lrms can hit the cockpit as well they tend to miss do to there arc but they can hit it ssrms are the odd one out and it makes sense as they are pretty much a shure hit

[Khobai]

Quote

Cause Clan mechs are sooooo restricted in pod space department, blah blah, whine whine--you know the rest.

yeah but I thought clan and IS weapons were supposed to be equal but different... for autocannons and lasers that seems to be the case.

but for srms, ssrms, lrms, and gauss the clan versions are just blatantly better.

[Mystere]

kosmos1214, on 09 November 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

there is no magic force field protecting the cockpit from misses iv seen srms headshot and lrms can hit the cockpit as well they tend to miss do to there arc but they can hit it ssrms are the odd one out and it makes sense as they are pretty much a shure hit

From what I recall from forums topics of long ago, SRMs and LRMs do significantly reduced damage. SSRMs, on the other hand, do none.

[Macksheen]

Brody319, on 09 November 2014 - 03:57 PM, said:

I think Artemis makes them almost always hit the CT. thats why the Stormcrow can be scary because a **** ton of SSRMs with Artemis flying directly into your chest. .

Nah, it doesn't.

They are decent - if you know how to use them and you don't mind spreading tons of damage.

Really, they are mostly useful for chasing away lights. You can do damage, but you better be good with the timing and patience or else you're likely eating direct fire.

Frankly, we tried to get some of the "better" folks in my unit to run streaks as a group - they couldn't - the patience and waiting was too hard for them to manage and didn't fit w/ their comp style. So be it - 7 seconds is a long wait.

I wouldn't mind IS streaks going back to 2.5 damage OR having an even faster fire time. They are largely ... ignorable ... right now.

And in terms of SRMs - start to think of SRM6s as "LB-X-12s" and it makes more sense. They are indeed shotguns.

[FupDup]

Ultimatum X, on 09 November 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm fine with that as the concept, but SSRM 4s and 6s have other balancing mechanisms.

• They tend to weigh more
  
• They have slower RoF (5s for SSRM 4, 6s for SSRM 6)
  
• They have a lock on time
  
• They are affected by ECM

On top of all of that, the damage is spread all over.


So there is a middle ground between all of those negative drawbacks and being a "lower skill" weapon*.


Either the damage spread needs to be tightened or some of those drawbacks should be scaled down (particularly lock on time and RoF).


*I also find this a bit of a misnomer, SRMs aren't exactly high skill weapons.

They are just short ranged, shotguns. Unless your target is really fast, it's pretty difficult to miss with SRMs.

We're not comparing PPC shots at 600m vs. LRMs here in terms of "skill".

I don't think Roland meant that he likes SSRMs being a crutch weapon, he's simply commenting on their current state (not whether or not he likes that state). If I had to guess, I'm pretty sure that he would prefer them to home in on specific aimed-at body sections (I certainly know he feels that way about Lurms, and I agree with both cases).

[process]

IS SSRMs are underwhelming at the moment. Compared with SRMs, they do less damage, have a higher cooldown, weight more, and you usually have to take a BAP just to get your locks. All that for random, albeit guaranteed, damage.

For starters, I would give the SSRM 2 the same stats as the SRM 2 with either higher cooldown or increased weight. I think the random damage/guaranteed damage mechanic does a pretty good job balancing itself.

Clan SSRMs, with the extra range, feel a little more useful.

[Thorqemada]

Artemis does effect Streak SRM - but in a different way than Dead Fire SRM.

Streak SRM + Artemis have an increase of the Lock On Speed - you can fire them earlier than a non-Artemis Streak SRM bcs the target is aquired faster.
Streak SRM be pretty pathetic bcs Players did not want a "No-Skill-Weapon" be any good and wanted Point-Click-Duck Weapons superior so that PGI invented a random hit location table for Streak SRM that prevents any effective usage.

Dead Fire SRM have a tightened spread - more missils hit the targetted Location while you do not get a lock on as they are non guided dumb fire rockets.
Ususaly only SRM6 need Artemis, SRM2 and 4 have already a tight enough spread and it is better to spend the spare Tonnage for something else.

If you boat masses of Streaks it may be posible to scare Lights and leg them but the TTK with Streaks is very high in a low TTK environment.

Simply do not use Streaks if you are not forced to by your Connection or Hardware.

Edited by Thorqemada, 09 November 2014 - 08:00 PM.

[topgun505]

Sorry. Have to disagree here. For SRMs at least.

My Jenner D has cored out quite a few Atlas from the rear using lasers and twin SRM4s. They get tunnel-visioned on the assault mech in front of them and they totally ignore the rear damage indicator until it's too late. And it doesn't take long. Just a few volleys and they're done. If they have any situational awareness at all they will usually start turning right about the time they are deep red internal and by then I can scoot off knowing that if he turns his back to anyone for an instant he'll be finished off (and I usually see if I can circle around to swing back in and finish him if he doesn't have buddies running in to assist).

Could I do that with streaks? Nope. They'd scatter too far to do any focused damaged. But you know what? That's their point. ALL of the missiles in the volley hit. The downside is that you can't control where they go.

Honestly streaks are fine. If anything needs changed I would say LRMs need to have the same targeting mechanic as streak missiles do. As they are now they tend to be too focused (especially chained A-LRM-5s which are CT homing machines).

KamikazeRat, on 09 November 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

SSRM and SRM for that matter, are great softeners, not good finishers.

[Brody319]

I'm probably the worst person to talk about this because I can aim, so I never use streakers. Sorry for not fully understanding them. Yea if you can aim, don't even bother with streakers, just use regular SRMs, saves you tonnage for ammo or other weapons.

[Davegt27]

I’ve been using SSRMs on my streak wolf and I thought I was hot stuff until I noticed a Stormcrow could carry more than I could

To get them to work half way decent I run CBAP and 4 tons of targeting computer
They sort of work, a lot of times you get your face shot off waiting for a lock
I see no evidence that so called increased CBAP range does anything (smoke and mirrors)

The SSRM cool down is also questionable as is all cool downs since the last patch
The SSRM rage does help

I mostly fly around in my super jjed TW, I call my Streak Wolf seeing how high I can jump and jump from building to building its about the only fun I get in a match

[Macksheen]

Brody319, on 09 November 2014 - 09:14 PM, said:

I'm probably the worst person to talk about this because I can aim, so I never use streakers. Sorry for not fully understanding them. Yea if you can aim, don't even bother with streakers, just use regular SRMs, saves you tonnage for ammo or other weapons.

It is good to note that clan streaks have extended range (near 400m w/ extender module) and track moving targets.

I generally prefer ballistics, but when I boat streaks they can be very effective - but you have to watch your encounter distance, lock timings, etc. They are very frustrating if you're staring at a target with an open torso - and you know you can't guarantee the shot since the streaks are going to hit "wherever" ... but they can put out a fair chunk of damage. Sadly, it's not in one spot.

I think they are in a good spot - if they were any better they may become too-good given the tracking - better to leave well enough alone. Except IS streaks - which are so far outclassed by the clans....give those more damage/missile or faster fire.

[627]

What is needed is a new mechanic for streaks. Only CT-homing was bad, plus broken splash damage it was OP.

But the way they work now is bad, too.

There are many ideas how to change this weapon but all those include a fundamental change and coding ressources, which I doubt PGI have.